HADD Training Method



  • Txs for the info VT, will go find some vids on it and send them to my OHimage She has been visiting for a couple of weeks so had plenty of massages pre/post Marathon and some might even have been 'ART' (nuff said).

  • Uh, I think I got the letters mixed up...ART, not ATR!image

  • OK, for the record, Active Release Technique as described here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Release_Technique

    Apparently my mind is going...

  • Hi All.   It proves this works when I can do 13 miles @70% under 2 hours!!

  • VT, txs for the link image And maybe it was the time of night you posted and the beverage of your choice that led to teh mistook image

    spen, you have put in a lot of hard work and think you should thank yourself as much as HADD for the results you are getting.

    Tried 5 miles today and found it hard though my legs seemed fine. 11:28 min miles with an AHR of 76%. Might go out again tomorrow and treat next week as another rest/recovery week before getting back into base building and lowering my AHR.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Bah, just lost my post.imageimage

    Still here ... last session to report was 16M, with 15M at MP and the last mile at hard effort.

    Miles 1-5     at 77% maxHR, 7:55/M
    Miles 6-10   at 79.5% maxHR, 7:55/m
    Miles 11-15 at 81% maxHR, 8:02/m
    Mile 15-16 at 85% maxHR, 7:30/m

    Not quite as fast or as stable as the last 16M MP run but this one was done in driving rain last Thursday afternoon ... so, still quite happy as I felt strong at the end (really pushed the last 400m and hit 93% maxHR). Also, I had little after effects the next day. Looking like somewhere in the 3:25-3:30 zone should be do-able.

  • Fridays LSR went ok, ish. I did the 24.5 I wanted, and all was good up to about 18, ave HR sub 75% @ 11:45mm, but I had been dehydrated during week, and not really done sufficient to sort it before Friday, so started getting Hip abductor Cramps, which are worse than hammy ones pain wise, and they pretty much stopped me in my tracks image I did the last 6 miles walk running as best as i could and got to the end in 5:19 which is about 15 more than hoped. Stil, I can blame myself for that one. The HR ave came out at 74% @ 13.00mm). It was almost definately dehydration causing it, I had a double strength electrolyte drink, and Iso gels during, so not an electrolye issue this time (had one months ago) 

    Oh well, the wheels came off, it hurt, but its complete and its taper time now image

    note to self: when you KNOW your dehydrated, try paying attention! imageimage

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Andi you're recovering wellimage

    VT well done on the last subLT, enjoy the last weeks of taperingimage

    Carter I'm about a minute per mile slower with a rucksack.  Good to hear the knee's been quiet.

    Brian hope that hammy's ok

    Spen that's a super pace print for 13m sub70%image

    Cheesy well done on finishing that (extra long) long run, enjoy the last week of taperingimage

    Roy thanks, yes I'm feeling strongimage

    mace hope you're ok mate

    Stewart hi

    BeDe how's things?

    Dr Dan that's a good run - I think that target will seem easy on the day for you. Look forward to the taper gains!image

    I messed up the weekend, missing a PB attempt at 10k and the long run Sunday, so I did a 20 miler this morning - 14m with a 75% lid then 6m at MP (7:45-ish).  Turned out to be my fastest (non-race) 20 miler, so I'm very happyimage  3 weeks of taper now!

  • Cheesy, damn, you are a beast. That is a looooong time on your feet and you gutted it out in the end. Impressive!

    Dr. Dan, well done in the tune-up/test run. Feeling strong throughout that in the bad weather (and on non-tapered legs) is just what you needed. I bet you can easily do 3:25 and maybe following taper you'll have a bit more in the tank.

    I'm officially 7 days out from race day. Did 13 m yesterday and legs felt great (finally starting to feel rested/fresh...knees and calves didn't feel very beat up for once). Kept most of the run around 72% but as a test jumped to what I think will be my early MP (7:30 m/m)...HR was in the low 150s for these (which is about 76%) and they felt comfy...my breathing was relaxed and although the pace did feel a bit brisk. Anyway, the past 6 wks of running my subLTs at near 7 m/m pace has paid off. I think my plan will be to go out running the first couple miles relaxed (they may be in the 7:45 to 8 m pace), then shift to right around 7:25 or 7:30...If that feels doable I'll just stay there until mile 18 to 20, then try to go for the 7:10ish pace if I have anything left in the tank. Goal is to hit 3:15, but will run cautiously as I'd rather run 3:20 and finish strong than completely blow up. Last time I ran a more conservative race...so am wondering how going more aggressive will work. I think my training says I can do it, but we'll see.

    Just really damn happy that I will actually toe the starting line this year.

  • Andi, took me over a month to fully recover from my first marathon HR was sky high for ages, nice 5 and enjoy another recovery week

    Spen, will be a while before I'm returning stats like those image

    Chessy, that is a long time on your feet and sounded really tough, recover well this week

    Dr Dan, a solid progressive 16 miler a real confidence booster

    Tek, well done getting your last 20 miler doneimage, got to be feeling good about Frankfurt,


    first recover week done and dusted 20 miles in total spanning 5 runs, 10:41mm avgHR140(73%)


  • Tek - should be back running again this week!! 3 weeks off (which in the grand scheme of my 4 months previous incapacitation I suppose is nothing). Looking forward to a "Winter of Content"image

    Everyone whos raced recently and I've missed - well done ya all. You know even if we don't get PB's or even finish a race we can still be proud of our achievements. Just think of all those people that don't even get out in the first place and enjoy the great outdoors (philosophy lecture over for another 6 months)image

  • Dr Dan, I've 'lost' a few posts here as well and if it's a long one now save (copy) as I type - RW is going to the dogs I fear image

    Looks like a good run in harsh conditions and 3:25 sounds awesome! 

    Cheesy, I'm (slowly) learning that running the morning after a 'session' isn't the wisest thing to do. Way to go with the VLSR I capped mine at 20 miles last time but might try to go over a couple of times image Enjoy your taper and good luck!

    Txs Teknik, another week of easy runs and will be back to building a better base for next time. Well done with the 20 miler - a great boost just before taper! Out of interest, what are your taper plans? I'm guessing even your final week will have more miles than my training weeks lol.

    VT, another of our little gang in taper and it sounds like your gonna peak at the right time!

    Txs Stewart, just the 1 5 miler thus far and am trying transition to my bikilas whilst reasting (up to 2 miles now lol). Are your doing Lochaber? I signed up for it last night and as it's flat would be a good excuse to get my treadmill for the Winterimage. well done on the 5 runs post LN.

    BeDe, txs for the mini Sermon and I concur image

    2 miles in the Bikilas today and my calves/ankles felt good though felt a little pain in my knees on the way back, its basically a mile uphill then (of course) a mile back downhill (87 metres). Cadence in 'proper' shoes is normally around 80 and in the VFF's it's been 90!

    Just noticed that Lochaber has an ascent of about 80 metres over 26.2 miles lol.


  • Thanks guys image

    Last tempo went well tonight, 1.5 mile warmup, 4 miles that ended up average 8:31mm with 155hr(83%) then 1.5 mile cooldown.

    After Fridays cramp problems after 18 miles, it was really nice to have a blast out tonight, I actually supprised myself, as although I know I can do this pace, I have never done it for 4 miles continuous! fastest 1/4mile split was 7:20mm. Previous was 9:20 over 8 miles.

    Andi: Are you doing foor strenght excersises too? Anything that strengthens your lower leg muscles, and especially all of your actual foot muscles will help.

  • Cheesy, sounds like a great run, how much of that are you going to attribute to HADDing?

    As for the excersises, I must admit to being bad - don't even WU/CD or stretch image I do the odd calf raise/dip but that's about it and must get into a proper core/strength routine soon.

  • Andi: Its hard to say, as legs adapt over time as well, but to do that at 83% for me was a sure sign that HADD work has reduced my overall HR at a given pace quite considerably. Months back if I had tried that pace, I would have been way up in the 160's assuming calfs didnt break.

    HADD style has allowed me to go long distances, uninjured (mainly) which in turn has built up muscle endurance and allowed HR do drop a fair amount for given effort. So when you look at it all, without trying to do HADD, the rest simply would not have happened IMHO.

    Try and get yourself one of thos physio big elastic bands, they work your feet really well, I'll try and dig out the info I was given for foot strength excersises. They helped me go to mid/fore foot strike without too much pain image although my main reason was to toughen up my arches so they had less tendency to drop.

  • Cheesy, I know what you mean about 'what if's'  but like you I do think HADDing has helped me lots, heck, very soon I might be running sub 10mm's around 72% (single digit miles will be a big boost for me).

    At the start of the Year I did a fair bit of training with the olde resistance bands and that included weighted calf lifts and should start that again and, if I can find my skipping ropes would like to start that - gave it up after about 30 seconds as it wasn't as easy to do as when I was a young lad (but that was a long time ago lol). 

  • VT – sounds like you are running strong and peaking just at the right time. Good luck at your race.

    Roy – have you got your official time from LN sorted yet ?

    Brian – how is the injury ? Will you be able to race at your marathon do you think ?

    Stewart – have you got any more races lined up ?

    Andi – how are the old legs feeling now ?

    Dr.Dan – great run from you in tricky weather conditions.  Just remind me which marathon you are racing ?

    Cheesy – great long run from you as well as the tempo run. What time do you have in mind for your race ?

    Teknik – glad you are a minute slower when carrying a rucksack as well, I was getting a bit worried there for a while ! Time to take it easy now and get yourself on the start line in good condition. Training seems to have gone very well for you.

  • Another decent week for me last week with a total of 28 miles that included 2 x 8 milers too. The knee seems to be baring up at the moment too despite me slipping with my stretches/exercises somewhat. I've been taking the mutt out for some long walks too which is helping strengthen the knee as they have been quite hilly. My new bike has been ordered and I should take delivery of it later this week. I then need to come up with a plan that wont upset Mrs C but ensures I can get plenty of running and cycling in. The plan this week is to get up to 30 miles and I've got a couple of days off so will be venturing into the peaks for a couple of hilly runs and rides. 

  • Hello,

    Last week I returned to running after a 4 month trough. I had a few ITB issues that now thankfully seem to be resolved, but have limited my running significantly in the last few months. I ran a 4:19 marathon in May, and have ran approx 30 times since then, including a period of 5 weeks of zero running. I continued to cycle thoughout (avg about 50 miles a week commuting to/from work), and i've done a little swimming.

    My question is how steeply should I aim to ramp up the mileage? In Jan-April this year I was running approx 40 miles per week on average, and coping ok with the volume. The peak was about 55 miles per week. This was marathon training so included some faster sessions and long runs.

    I'm aware that I should listen to my body to avoid running too much too soon, but i do have a tendency to be over-cautious, and I'm conscious that my running endurance has declined, so am keen to improve that as quickly as possible by getting as much time on feet as I can. My understanding of the HADD philosophy is that because it's very low intensity, the volume can be quite high. But it will still take my legs time to readjust to regular running.

    Any thoughts, or your experiences of trying to improve endurance after a layoff. are very much appreciated.

  • Agent - I am in the same boat as you as I have had ITB issues this year. I tried one comeback about 5 months ago but the ITB issue came back, I think it was due to me ramping up the mileage too quickly and also doing speed sessions. For the last 2 months or so I have been HADDing and, while the ITB is still not fully sorted, I have been getting some runs in. Like you, I started at a fairly low weekly mileage of about 15 and never added more than 10% to this. I am currently up to 28 miles a week most of which has been under 75%. That said, I have entered a couple of short fell races and came through unscathed. So, for me, it has been slow, steady HADDing with the occasional speed session and a very steady increase of my weekly mileage that hopefully is working. I am looking at it that I wont be in a position to run a marathon until next spring so I dont need to rush things too much. And, as these guys will tell you, that ties in nicely to what HADD is all about.

  • Carter: I will be happy to go sub 5hrs, its Beachy head after all image anything less than that is a bonus, and will warrant another beer or 3 at the John Harvey (Lewes) afterwards image

    TBH its all part of my plan for the SDW50 in April (hence the extra long runs) but those have given me a lot of confidence about Beachy, and with the HR dropping for effort has added to that, as has the 'speed' work (its speed for me, I am still in awe of you folk at the 7's and 8's for low hr !)

    Andi: yes, I know exactly what you mean on the single digit pace thing. When I did that previous 8mile tempo at 9:20 I was like a pig in shit! I couldnt believe I had run that far at that pace and with a lowish HR, was an immense confidence boost for me, and as a result, not long after that I did 18 @just over my proposed race pace, so another boost there. The HADD stuff has definately helped me run extra long, and now I am adjusting my long pace to suit the HR I can now do, things are starting to look up. By April, I am really hoping do drop ave HR down a few more, by doing more of the same once I start the SDW training properly in November. I will be running 5 times a week then, but still with a few tempo and steady states, but will be including back to back fri&sat and midweek long run on a tuesday, with easy/tempo/steady either side of teh MWLR depending which week. Every third week will be an easy drop back week too.

  • Blimey a few day and so many posts to catch up on so may have to generalise it to ...goood going everyone image your distances and speeds are still inspiring me, thankfully as i had 2 rubbish runs over the weekend. I say rubbish they weren't, sundays 10miler i loved and if it hadn't been for the hubby i would've grabbed some jelly babies and a drink and headed out for some more. But my HR did raise a little and went spazzo between miles 3 and 6  showing in the 180s which i know i wasn't especially on the downhill bit. Friday night run i very stupidly tried to be a hero and set off a little quicker which ended up with me doing 11'30 miles at the finish to bring my heart down into line. I have now learnt my lesson and will be sticking to pace and being a good girl image

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    carter - it's Abingdon.

    Carrioe - yes, you must be a good girl!image

    Enforced 3 day break, so did 10 miles at subLT today ... well 9 subLT and then ramped up the last mile to finish at 93% maxHR. Came out as 7:34/m for 80.6% maxHR in the end.

  • Dr. Dan, good decision on the rest. How did the SubLT feel (were your legs reasonably fresh from the rest)? When do you race again?

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    VT...in 12 days time! imageimage.

  • Carter, the legs feel fine thanks but that has me thinking I whimped out on pace image That said, I'm generally very tired these days. Glad to hear the knees are holding up now. So, a bike? do you swim? do I smell a Tri or duathlon in the mix?

    Agent G, thought I hadn't seen you around the forums for a while, hope things continue to improve for you. On the ramping up Q, when I started HADDing (albeit incorrectly) I  was able to go from 30 mins 4 times a week to 60+ mins/run 5/6 times a week within a Month and DOM's all but dissapeared.

    Cheesy, I forgot, is this your first? like you, anything sub 5 hours was my goal (got 4:55:02). Ah, now I understand the super long runs, SDW50 sounds like fun, brutal but funimage One day I might consider an Ultra but 8 months ago I never dreamt of a Marathon - how things change.

    Carrie, you have to keep up with usimage I consider a run when you return home refreshed and ready to repeat it an excellent run so well done image

    Dr.Dan, sounds like  a good run and your last pacey outing till Abingdon? taper time now?

    Well, the problem with having a decent Garmin with a good battery life is that you (ok I) can forget to charge it - hence today's running showing as .95 miles. It was actually 3 miles in the bikilas again and the car clock said 30-31 minutes. My right ankle gave me a little jip (camber?) but otherwise things felt good.

    I'm doing a little test and ran with a calf support and been wearing it all night so will see if my left calf feels any different tomorrow. 


  • Funny, Dr. Dan.

    Today I did a really easy 8 miles and kept visualizing the race. So I'd go from a HR of 137...then think about the last miles of the race, look down, and see 155! As I think about the race my emotions also cycle imageimageimageimageimageimage. I think the beginning and last ones are what I try to emulate!

    Today my legs felt really good. Niggles were completely silent. Last time I did a taper I felt like I wasn't doing enough...this time I feel like I'll just barely be rested for the race. Have actually enjoyed the gradual diminishment of training volume.

  • VT, you sound like your a coiled spring and ready to fly image

    Funny old day here, Ferries were stopped for most of the day with high winds gusting up to 40mph so I did a mercy dash to the shops to stock up (mainly beer a fags). The stopped service made the local news as the dock at Oban was filled with Rally cars (tis Rally weekend here).

    I decided to run in 'proper' shoes today and planned on 6 easy miles. The wind was behind me blowing me up the hills and did the first 3 miles in 30:15. I decided to carry on up the hill a bit and run a total of 6.25 miles (have an alert at .25 miles) and see how close to my PB I could get.

    Well, at 5.57 miles my average pace was 10:04 and went for it deciding to forget I was supposed to keep my HR down.

    6.26 miles in 1:02:05 equates to 10k in 1:01:41 and 96 seconds faster than my previous best.

    And the WTF moment - HRA was 71.81% so well chuffed with myself image

  • Nicely done, Andi! Only one part of that post I protest...and you know what it is...if you're willing to HADD you way to better fitness, surely you can slow down AND not smoke, right?image One of these days we'll wear you down.


    Today was my dress rehearsal...7 miles...2 at race pace in the middle. Legs felt awesome...paced miles felt good. Legs are itchy. Dday approaches.

  • Andi: Yes, this is my first mara image TBH I am not in the slightest bit interested in most racing, I enjoy trail running, and running long for what it is, so Ultras seemed the way to head! And having now helped out at a few, am convinced of it. It simply combines the two things in running that I like, and as a bonus gives me something of a challenge to aim for while training! Having said that, even without a race in the diary (currently have 3) I would still run long trails.

    How did you get on with the calf thing? I had to wear one several months ago and it really helped spread the pressure until the muscle had repaired properly, it did get a bit too tight on long runs tho, as my legs have grown bigger than it could easily stretch to... 

    You smoke? Really? Cutting that out will probably get you 4:35 on its own! I smoked a bit up until 6 months ago (helped a stress/anxiety issue) but got to the point where I could feel it affecting my cardio building, so had to choose. Never looked back. I do occasionally miss a smoke on a beer night tho, they just go so well together image And yes, long runs after a session dont work, but I have no intention of stopping beer flow, I enjoy it too much, but have reduced it somewhat.

    VT: lets hope the niggles stay silent for you day! Which one you doing? I cant remember for the life of me.

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