HADD Training Method

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  • Congrats Dr Dan on a great performance at Chester. That is some improvement over 9 marathons. I am making a long-overdue appearance on this forum (and thread) after someone at work mentioned maffetone training and I recalled this thread. The original threda I started has 128 pages and this follow up one has grown to 108 pages now.
    is Brian61 still on this thread? i lost his email when he moved jobs
  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭
    Brian61 is here johnnybike
    Long awaited Come back 
    It's great to be running again 
    How is everybody?
  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭
    Just seen the date on jb's post.
    Where are all the haddites?
    Different thread?
  • Hi Brian, very tough conditions to stay under 70% hr at the moment due to the heat
    Maybe the thread will get going again once it cools?

    Happy Hadding!
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    haha ... the Hadd thread relights! :)

    Good to cross paths yesterday Brian61! How did you get on? I was a whopping 2 min slower than last time (2016).

    No "Hadding" from me these days. My approach over last couple of years has been to cycle to work and back every day - this replaces my "recovery" running ... then I parkrun on Saturday and long run on Sunday, with no carbs in-between to encourage fat-adaptation. I then throw in an MP run on a Tuesday (pretty much a sub-LT run but run to pace rather than HR). Thursday is sometimes a 4th/5th run via a run-commute. This regime  finally got me a sub 3:30 marathon at Chester last year (3:22 in fact). 2018 has been a slow burn ... injured foot in November lingered well into 2018, so I did Tour de Yorkshire cycle sportive and Leeds ITU standard distance Tri. Finally re-started running in the summer ... doing Yorkshire marathon. Still 20+ sec/mile off the pace but getting there gradually.

    On reflection, I think I screwed up the Hadd approach by assuming my lactate threshold was at 80% maxHR (about 7:15-7:30 min/mile when fit). I could hold this for 10 miles without drift but it was a tough session. When I actually got it tested it was more like 8 min/mile. So then I stated running "MP" runs as 8 min/mile and things improved.
  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭
    Martyn, agreed. I'm loathe to complain about the weather though, I love the sun. I console myself with the fact that the numbers will get better in the fall.

    Dan, Good to see you albeit fleetingly. I'm embarrassed to tell you the time I did. Suffice to say it was a good 10/11 minutes slower than the last 5 mile race I did, pre-injury.
    Well done at Chester - and congrats on going sub 3.30
    Best of luck at the York marathon - what is it maybe 5 or 6 weeks more hard training?
    After a few months of versy slow build-up I am finally able to run continuously round about 70%
    It has been a struggle though.
    Onward and upward......
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Slowly slowly catch a monkey! It will come back!

    Yes, 6-7 weeks more before a steep taper. 2nd "20" coming up on Sunday.

    Managed 21:08 at a windy Brownlee Centre 5K yesterday ... not a great time but first indication of getting my race legs back. Doing 4 races in September, so hope to be sharper by October.
  • Fish52Fish52 ✭✭✭
    Hello - I'm pleased that this thread has relit! 
    My last 4 years of running have been plagued with hip injuries, which started after the Nottingham marathon in Sept 14.
    I used to follow a schedule very similar to yours Dr. Dan, with track repeats on Tuesday, a tempo run (6-12 miles) in a Thursday and a long run (15-22 miles) on a Sunday, with cycling on the other days.
    But each time I try track repeats, or any hard pace running, I aggravate my hips - and my race times have really dropped off.
    I've read the Hadd articles and also read Phil Maffetone's Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing. So I've decided to rebuild with a low heart rate approach. I'm now at 33 mpw, which I know is not much, but I'm injury free and having a good time.
    DR Dan - Hope your 20 miler went well.
    Brian61 - hope your continuing to progress with your own build up - patience is a virtue isn't it
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Hi Fish! Yes, I find I can cope OK with marathon-pace training (aka hadd sub-LT runs) and long runs, and even a weekly parkrun at 5Kp, but when I start doing faster intervals then I start getting foot issues. A lot of training is knowing what works best for your own body - improving fitness but also avoiding injury! Looks like you're well on the way with 33 mpw ... these days my mileage is quite low as I usually only run 3 times a week and rely on 5 days bike commuting to fill in the gaps.
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Oh yes ... my 20 mile run ... well it was a bit grim!

    I went out at 8:35/mi which was stupid in hindsight. That pace was fine last year but clearly not this year, so I started to slow at 15 miles and then found the last 3 miles a real grind. Legs were really mashed the next day (I had to drive Leeds-Cambridge-Leeds).

    Cycled to work Tues-Fri this week and slotted in an MP session on Wednesday, doing 10.6 miles with 8.5 of them on the canal towpath at MP (which came out at 7:55/m ... last year I did the same run at 7:35/m) ... it was a comfortably hard session. Unfortunately I forgot my HR monitor, so don't have those data.

    out...
    0.25, 2:02
    1, 8:07
    2, 7:54
    3, 7:59
    4, 7:53

    back...
    5, 7:47
    6, 7:52
    7, 7:48
    8, 8:01
    0.25, 1:58



  • Fish, good luck with the low HR stuff. It's certainly getting cooler now, and I've been able to do some 75 and 80% work.
    Having done a couple of 5k races in July, I managed to knock a couple of minutes off doing 23.05 at York last night.
    It's working!
    Dan, gues you don't get out on the canal now?

  • Good stuff Brian61! You'll be back in no time.

    Yes, I still use the canal but find lunchtimes difficult these days ... more likely to run straight off the cycle to work as it saves a second shower. Sunday long runs are all on the canal at the moment too.

    Had a poor HM at Vale of York ... went off way too fast as my brain can't compute that I'm not nearly as fit as last year. 1 mile race tomorrow ... should be painful.
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  • Anyone still Hadding?
    I’m planning on returning to it after 12 weeks off since the MK Marathon. 
    I’ve gone into much more detail this time, reading everything from the links on the first page to have a better idea of where to go once my HR is stable in Phase 1. 
    I had a niggle to my Achilles for the last month of training so am hoping the rest has helped it. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Martyn - I'm still doing Hadd.   I've got a couple of races this weeks then settling down for a period of Hadd training ready for my autumn marathons.

    I sometimes go back and read the whole Hadd document just to remind myself to keep that HR down and no faster stuff until no cardiac drift for 10 miles.
  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭
    I'm still a haddite!
    Keep dipping into traditional training only to be disappointed with the results. I know the he stuff works for me.
    Same as Shades, I have an autumn marathon to train for so it seems the natural way for me to go.
  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭
    Just the 2 key sessions ar the moment-
    90mins with 70 at 80%
    And the ling run.
    All the rest is at 70%-75%
  • Martyn BarnesMartyn Barnes ✭✭✭
    edited July 18
    Nice to hear the two of you are still Hadding!
    Yes Shades, always a good idea to ‘jog’ the memory. 
    Brian, are you building that up each week? 
    Good luck with your autumn marathons guys, where abouts are they? 

    My big goal is London Landmarks Half Marathon in March after I finally got in via a ballot. 
    The key for me will be getting my weekly miles over 40 to get anywhere near my 1:49:xx.
    I’ve also entered the London Marathon ballot again, but am bracing myself for another let down. 
  • Brian61Brian61 ✭✭✭
    Martyn, best of luck with the HM training.
    I'm doing York marathon in October, so just starting to build the long run. 13miles last Sunday, 15 this Sunday hopefully. The 90minute run stays at 90, and usually the 80% pace increases fairly quickly. Had it down to 8min/miles in April, but then stopped in favour of speed work. Started again on Wednesday and came out at 8.26 pace. Wanting to get it down to 7.30ish
  • Sol2Sol2 ✭✭✭
    Hi all! I am still Hadding too. I haven't really stopped since I last posted here... Things were going very well and progressing nicely until the Manchester marathon in May, which I completed in 2.59.45.  I'm now pushing the envelope a little further for a hopefully 2.55 in Chester in October.
    Good luck all! 
  • That’s a decent pace Brian, especially at this time of year with the heat. 
    I think I’ll be doing my 80% runs for 75 mins once I’m back into it. 
    13 weeks of resting my Achilles and it’s still not right so have the physio on it now. 
    Nice to hear Sol is still Hadding, and well done on the sub 3!
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