HADD Training Method



  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    BeDe hope you're up and out a bit this week

    Andi the plan for the taper weeks is/was 64/42/19, no more long runs, 2 subLTs a week except race week.  That's great news on the HR/pace improvementimage

    Cheesy enjoy a relaxed couple of weeks in the run-up to Beachyimage

    Carter well done on the niggle-free build up.

    Carrie, yep, stick to the plan !

    Dr Dan nice subLT - getting faster / lower / flatter prints !image

    VT you sound like you're in great shape, physically and mentallyimage

    Still plugging in miles here, feeling a lot less tired now I've cut the long and medium runs out.  I'm actually enjoying the club runs again now that I'm not running there and back on top !  SubLTs are not going well though - getting a bit SLOWER with each one!image

  • BeDe  keep on with your philosophy, love it .


       No luck with phone calls or emails so have written a letter pleading my case and it will be in the post tomorrow morning thxs.

    Ran 5 miles today without HRM ,just ran as I felt like and it was good.



  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Roy how are your legs recovering?  Sorry you're still having problems because of that chip failure.image

    AgentGinger sorry I missed you out - assuming you're running all you runs "easy" (i.e. 5k+3 or 75% max ceiling, or lower if you feel tired), then I think the P&D (up to 55m) post mara cycle works quite well - that would be a weekly build up of  13 / 23 / 26 / 30 / 35m (then follow the 10% rule).

  • Txs VT and yup, quitting the dreaded weed would surely help me though am currently making decent strides (see what I did there?). I'm moving home in about 6 weeks and will definately attempt to (at least) cut down. Keep trying lol.

    And as Teknik says, being mentally prepared will help you lots image

    Cheesy, running for runnings sake is a good attitude to have imho though I seem to fair better with an end goal so have signed up for the lochaber Marathon next April - will keep me running through the Winterimage I seem to be looking at Ultras more these days but right now it's too much for me but watch this space lol.

    I think the calf test went well. On Wednesday my left calf was aching a bit from Tuesday's 3 miles in the Bikilas but the right was fine. Today I changed the support over to my left calf so shall see how things feel tomorrow.

    Well done on quitting smoking! I've managed 3 months off them twice but each time a major event/stress saw me weaken and return to them image and as for the beer/drams they will defo be staying image

    Lol Teknik, I knew your taper weeks would be better than normal training weeks (only averaged 27 during training with a peak at 54). I'm still on recovery low miles and feel a bit jealous of you guys with races on the horizon! And txs for the comment on my pace/HR image On a smaller scale than yourself my WTF moments give me a decent boost.

    Roy, am pretty sure your not the only person with this issue and fingers crossed they finally sort it out - must be a right pain (though you know you did it as do we). I'm so Anal about stats I don't think I could run without the HRM though guess I could stop myself from looking at it till afterwards and see how I fair running by feel image

    Out in the bikilas again today and rather than increase the mileage from 3 I think I should do a few  more 3 milers before increasing the distance again. 5k in 31:02 and AHR was 72.34%. It was a bit higher than I'd hoped but had about 15 rally cars passing me on single Track roads - that shot my HR up each time as even though they were dawdling they are noisy brutes! 9:59 mins/mile so my second sub 10mm run in a row (and ever on runs over 3 miles lol).


  • Teknik,

       Legs are ok for short runs, and that's about all, but mentally I cant wait to start training for my next marathon in April ( not London ).


  • Lochaber Roy?

  • Andi

     Afraid not, am running Marathon de Cheverny  just south east of Le Mans, on the 6th of April. 

    Its being run in the grounds of a Chateau, flat and at every water station wine will be available if required, as much as I like wine might give it a miss till 40kimage


  • Roy, remember you saying nowimage I guess wine stations will be fun for some! I wouldn't mind doing one with 1/2 bitter each mile but not sure I'd finish (the run not the beer).

    I'm going to create my own HADDish plan again roughly taken from an 18 week Hal Higdon plan and will add 3 weeks to it for injury/illness/lazyitis (last time around I used all 3 weeks up due to lazyitis). So, a 21 week plan leaves me 4 weeks from Monday to 'base build'. Not long at all so will use it to build my mileage up and have a much better base than for my first Marathon so all should be good image

  • OK, been a while since one of my silly Q's so...

    How do you guys (gals) record your times/HR with w/u, run, c/d? I don't currently w/u or c/d and just run easyish. I could set up workouts on the Garmin but I oft don't know exactly how far I'm going to run and, on the off chance I run a PB time Garmin wouldn't pick it up if I just started the timer then ran.

    Thinking about it that's probably a mute question and shouldn't worry about pb's unless I set out to do one?

    That said, I wouldn't be able to come up with an average pace for (say) an 80%AHR run if my data included w/u & c/d, am I just over thinking stuff here?

  • If you really want to just reset after your warm up

  • Andi

              I never chase PBs in training, only work to HR zones. 

  • Andi - never bother with setting workouts on the Garmin - last time I did that I was on a HM and it said I had finished about 500yds before the finish!!

    I just switch watch on once HR up to about 70% (which is not long for me image - switch it off when I stop. Although I luv stats that's about as complicated as I want it image

    I like the idea of bastardising a Hal Higdon plan - had considered that myself once but never got around to it. Would be interested to see how that  works out if u do it

  • Txs spen & Roy, and yup, was probably a silly Q image

    Bede, your right, wouldn't be wise to set a 13.1 workout running a half (but you know that now lol). I really (really) need to just look at the HR stats and stop worrying about paces as these will surely improve if I can keep the HR down.

    As for the Hal Higdon plan when I did LN training I just took the daily mileage from the plan and ran that 'easy' ignoring the type of training suggested - probably worked best for the weekend runs. I'll do similar this time but try to work in a few subLT runs and probably start at around a mile and build up until I can sustain if for an hour. I also plan to run M/W/F in the bikilas and build the Weds run into a mLSR (still thinking about using them at Loch Ness nest Year). Something to play with over the weekend image

    Not a good run today, 10k @10:56 mm's and a whopping 74.47% AHR. Again I blame the Rally cars, they were being scrutineered and as they finished they were heading to the start point so saw lots of them. 

  • Have you started your 80% runs yet

  • nope, been shying away from anything that looks like hard work so guess I'd better start sometime. Any tips gratefully received image Am pretty sure I read it should be a gradual process. 

  • Try 15 mins and see how you get on


    You  will see big improvement











  • Ta, I had been thinking of a mile to start (easier to work out for me) and might be able to keep a steadier HR as can just run normally on the hilly bits image

    Will keep you all informed and watch out for me next WTF moment in 6 weeks lol.

  • Late night here, had the Mull Rally on Radio and following results, SS1 & SS2 got cancelled after an accident on SS2, I feared the worst but the car that stopped the rally had no badly injured peeps. Sadly, the leader, local guy Callum managed to back into a ditch but will restart tomorrow.

    So, whilst all thatwas going on I attempted to creat a HADD/Hal Higdon training plan. I went for the advanced plan (weird for a beginner), its 6 days a week and only changed Tues/Thurs. Higdon is big on race pace runs on Saturday to slow you down (feel the pain) on Sunday.

    A side plan is to run Mon & Thursday (maybe Weds as well) in my bikilas in preperation for Loch Ness next September).

    It was an 18 week plan but have built in 3 weeks for illness/sickness/lazyitis  (16/17/18) so if nothing goes wrong will basically reapeat weeks 13/14/15.

    6 days a week may be too much for me so would drop the easy days and shuffle the other days if required.

    Thoughts peeps?



  • oh, will w/u c/d on Tues and maybe Sat. The early Tuesday runs may look confusing but 5 miles with 2x1 at 80% would be miles 2,3,5 with jog intervals and 2x2 at 80% would be 1,2 jog 3 then 4,5 if that makes sense image

  • Eeeeeeeeek

  • Bloody hell Andi image that looks like my Ultra plan! you have some serious weeks built into that. I dont have the experience to really comment constructively, but 6 days on the trot, with the first two after rest being semi long and long, seems a bit too much?

    In november I go from 4 to 5 days, with mon-wed short easy alternating tempo/steady, tues a mid week medium long run, friday is always my proper long run, and saturday will be my back to back medium long run.

    Having said that, if you can pull that plan off, you'll blast that 4:29 target image

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Andi looks like a good plan, although I might suggest swapping Tues and Sat - 10m at pMP on a Sat followed by a 20 miler Sunday sounds like a tough weekend, so I'd stick the shorter subLT in there instead (I'm assuming the 80% runs and the 10:18mm runs will be roughly the same in HR terms)

    Also I'd keep Weds as a 3m recovery, and bung the extra miles onto Thursday to get you a "proper" MLR - I'm convinced the mid-week 13-15 milers pay big dividends.image

  • lol Booktrunk, I went 'eeek' when I got up this morning and saw what I'd posted! It's amazing what you think you can do after a few pints lol.

    Cheesy, yup, it might be a bit much for me but am prepared to give it a shot.

    Teknik,  good call on Weds/Thurs so will do that, makes much more sense. I don't really know about the 80% - 10:18mm runs but am hoping the 10:18's will actually be easier than the 80%'s by the time the 80%'s are up to 5 consecutive miles. If the Tuesday is actually easier than the 10:18's I may well take your advice and change them around. 

    The plan is due to start 11th November but am moving end Nov/early December so may eat into 3 week safety time almost at once image  I'm pretty sure this will also make sure my 70% runs are 70% and not 72-74 and will cap them at 75% on the hills so will be walking plenty to start image


  • Hi Guys image last week was a running fail no running at all, life really got in the way and decided to do an ultra taper for Great Eastern half yesterday, no PB but done it in 2'02 but my HR was 91% average (i suspect this is not a good thing). It was wet! very wet and windy! Andi i had set a workout on my garmin to keep my pace in check and i just set it for 14 miles in case it went over which it did by 0.18.

    Roy i did the Bacchus half in September where every 2 miles there was a water (wine) stop it was brilliant fun and altho i skipped the first stop i hit the second which was champers, went straight to my head image I'm hoping to do the Medoc for my 40th.

    Legs are feeling alittle second hand today but will get back on training properly by the end of the week, some silly bugger signed up for a weekend double marathon in December image

  • So if you are doing HADD it's all about the heart rate right. 

    So for example Andi has a plan with what I consider a huge amount of total miles in it, and it has for example 20m at 73% What do you do if you HR goes over your 73% do you slow to a walk or very gentle jog until your heart rate goes under that level and is under control again and keep going trying to do your best to keep it down like that?

    I'm in my lazy post marathon week, and have lots of ouchy muscles today, so might have upto 2 weeks of non running so thinking about things to do with running now image


  • Carrie, I've done similar to Bede (though not in a race) and if I does creat workouts now I always have an extra 'workout' set to end at 'lap press' at the end so can continue home in the same workout image

    Jeez, 91% is high so would lead me to think you are super fit or maybe your MAX HR is slightly out? what is your HM PB? 2:02 sounds good to this old fella image

    I was talking about Bacchus and similar the other day and if they had 1/2 Boddies or even a decent dram (even chasers) I'd sign up like a shot lol.

    Booktrunk, take my advice with a pinch of salt because a) still a learning myself and b) I may try to trip you up (like I will next September lol).

    Have you managed to read any of the links in the first post in this thread? Lots of good info there and will answer lots of your Q's and probably prompt lots more.

    I live in a (lets say) undulating area so it's harder for me to maintain pace at a constant HR so allow myself more leniency than most (probably just takes longer for this method to give you WTF moments. More informed folks will be along soon I'm sure but if I set out to run at (say) 73% MHR I tend to allow HR to climb uphill then try and reduce the average going downhill - this method used to have me walking even a short incline but 3 months down the line it's only the longer hills that make me walk if my HR goes too high. So, my goal is to get my AHR to 73% whilst others would cap it at 73%.

    This will be my first attempt at sLT's so should be interesting.

    Oh, and make sure you use MHR% and not WHR% as I did for 3 months - I thought I was doing great until I was told I was actually running everywhere at about 77% of MHR.

    How am I fairing? well today I ran 3 miles in the Bikilas, 10:40 mm's at 70.74% MHR (79% MAX) and at the end of June I ran the same 3 miles in 10:42 mm's at 81% MHR with a MAX of 89%. No faster but a massize difference in effort image


  • Still no edit button so a Q....

    Tomorrow I thought I'd try a 5 miler with miles 1, 3, 5, jogging and 2 & 4 @80%. How do you run the mile @ 80%? build up to 80% in the jog mile or allow the HR to increase from (say) 70% up to 80% at the start? I'm sure I read somewhere to build up to 80% steadily and not run so fast to get to 80% you need to slow down to keep the HR right?


  • Andi  It is possible to do that,   Ultra training is pretty much that

  • Andi,

      I would go with what you have suggested, build up in the first mile and then stay at 80% for the second mile back down to 70% for the third mile, it wont be so hard getting up to 80% on your fourth mile, then cruise to the finish for your last one.

    Hope this helps.

  • Superfit..no!!! Haha definitely not, my pb is 1'59"49, this was 2'02 dead but conditions weren't very nice.

    whats anyone's opinion then on my max HR? My hr for the race was in the 170s from mile 2 and stayed there at a steady rate. I have been basing it so far on my 5k max +5 and my 11mm have more or less worked out at 75%. Feel a little confused
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