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HADD Training Method
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It's generally evident by percieved exertion unless you're actually drawing blood to test lactate levels. Running below LT should be easy/comfortable, above LT and it starts getting more difficult and feeling like you can't run much more at that intensity. If you pm me your email address I can send you the Hadd training pdf with all this explained in much better terms and with examples.
I have an odd thing going on- I seem to struggle to stay below 138 ( 70%), but can happily run at 142-145, which is still lower than my ILTHR, not sure why?
I have had a few very tiring weeks at work- sleep poor on nights on call, and disturbed sleep for other reasons ( too hot, etc).
I don't know whether it is because I'm not doing enough, or whther I need to rest.
I have only a few weeks until my ultra, so it is not a good time to drop down the mileage and rest, so I guess I'll have to try increasing the mileage and see whther it is kill or cure.
tricialitt - Is it a recent thing that you can't keep it under a set heart rate? Can you normally? Tiredness can do funny things to heart rate, might be worth just resting and making sure you get a few good nights sleep in a row, this should sort you out, you won't lose any fitness in a couple of days.
Couple of runs to catch up on, club run thursday was good fun, missed the win by about a second I think, but no watch as it was a sort of nominated run, but around 5.5 miles in 42 minutes, kept it easy on the flat sections but it was a hilly route so effort would have crept up a bit every now and then. Leg still felt a bit sore on this run but i think it was due to no warm up and starting on a steep climb.
Ran the IW half marathon yesterday with a mate of mine. He's not done much running recently so I said i'd try and get him round in under two hours. Ended up just over in 2:03 @ 136 (I think, not uploaded the run yet). Nice and easy all the way, leg no worse but no better either during the run, though it feels fine today after some stretching, rollering and a deep heat massage! I'll keep the runs this week short and light and see at the weekend what i'll do for a long run, might go offroad to lessen the impact.
20 mile progressive (7 easy, 131bpm; 7 steady 142bpm; 6 goal pace 153bpm). Converging on 3:21:00 target for Abingdon.
http://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/566026132
Folks, no more talk about shoes please! am becoming a Brooks whore so whilst interesting I think I'll give the Hokas a miss (for a while anyways).
As always, great running folks and even those that are (currently) below par your still faster than me
Was going to say welcome Lamington and apologise for missing your initial post but after following your link the penny dropped lol. Great 20 miler btw
2nd run since the adductor injury and was heavily strapped up (dressing rather tightly to the left) but had a decent 5.8 mile run and found a 'new' .45 mile hill created by the forestry commission for the log lorries that joins 2 of my regular routes. I attempted the new route in the form of 3 hill reps but at 175ft incline for the .45 miles I found it hard to pace myself (even going so slowly).
Found out today that I can't defer or transfer my Loch Ness entry so will carry on training for the next month and if I feel ok might as well turn up.
Andi, glad to hear you are back out and about! The race I'm running in October is flat so not too worried about hills (but still get them as hard to find flat stretches around here). But feels like a luxury not to have to worry about them. I bet you'll show up and have a good race.
Nayan, very nice progressive run from you. And I like that link to the garmin readout, which is easier than trying to screen shot my sportstrack probably. I think you are certainly in shape for your time goal. How did the pacing on the last 6 miles feel?
Iower, nice couple of efforts last week. Sounds like a nice time. I have no idea about the LT testing as I've never actually done the test (seems too tiring to contemplate)
So last week was 60M. Got in 2 subLTs (10M at effort each) and a 20M LR. First subLT really felt good coming off a recovery week. Very little HR drift at all and pace was about 7:0X/m. Second one was faster at 6:55 m/m. The HR did drift a bit in the final 3 miles (and I felt tired in these miles) but ave was 80%. Sunday's LR was 8:08 m/m aveHR 68%. Again, felt really good for 16, really tired for final 4. It's certainly hard to do these weeks featuring 2 subLTs (at least for me). My time were better late in the week as we finally had some cool temps.
Debating (sorry Andi!) doing a subLT in the Cliftons tomorrow. Or perhaps I should be not doing a subLT as legs were pretty trashed Sunday. Game time decision...
ES - I have a couple of pairs of Brooks in circulation (Defyance/Launch) and must say they're very very comfy, though i'm not sure i'll buy again as i'm convinced they're too roomy for my skinny feet and might be contributing to the lower leg niggles I suffer from. I'll run them into the ground anyway and probably end up with some Saucony/Adidas alternatives as these are a much better fit for me
VT - cheers, it was exactly that, and I never imagined i'd have a nice time during a race, especially not running slowly! It's weird going into them with no pressure or nerves whatsoever, might have to find some more local ones to do as my long runs every now and then. It sounds like you've got the subLT runs just right at the moment and simply need to give them time for a month or so. What are the other runs looking like in the week? Are they being run slowly enough to allow recovery from the 2 efforts and the long run?
Iower, I was thinking the same thing about finding some local races to pace in for some of my training runs. As to my nonsubLT days, all are run at sub70%. But Maybe I go too far on some. Usually my week looks about like this:
Monday: no running but do hip/core strengthening
Tu: subLT
Wed: 9-11 easy
Thur: 7-8 easy
Fri: subLT
Sat: no running but do hip/core strengthening
Sun: LR (usually run P&D style...slow to faster, but not a blow the wheels off progressive)
Yea, i'll have to be careful though as it could get quite expensive, especially as I have to get a ferry to get anywhere!
So your subLT days are around 10 miles, and your long run is around 20? I can't imagine that your easy days are taking it out of you but might be better off having three easy days (run monday or saturday) and shortening the long run slightly? At the moment (if it's 20 miles) that's over a third of your weekly mileage so might just be a tad long IMO. If you did 3 x 6-7 miles easy, 2 x (up to) 10 miles subLT, and a LSR 16-18 miles, that would equate to about the same miles per week, but might feel easier? Depends on your available time I suppose and some would say less longer runs more shorter ones, and also if you can still recover on days you go for a run.
VT runner,
tks for feedback. I hve to admit I do dread these progressive runs a bit - tried one in the heat a few weeks back and had to curb my enthusiasm. This one wasnt bad actually. It wasnt as easy to keep HR flat as at the other paces but reasonably comfortable over the last 6.
I figured to improve from 3:33PBto low3:20s for Autumn and not bite off more than I can chew. Then target for sub3:15 London age group qual time in the spring. Thats the big one for now.
After that, I can't see things improving until I have more raw speed (5k PB only just sub 20min), so I guess there will be a need to switch training around a bit.
Iower, nice catch. You are right, my LR is a big % of my week. Will have to think about that as I've been doing anywhere from 17-21M. Also, I do have a cut back week every 4th week (but may go every 3rd week depending on how I feel). The other concern might be that 1/3 of my miles are also done at essentially MP (in the subLTs). Running 6 days instead of 5 would certainly balance things out a bit more, but almost hate to cut any of the recovery runs shorter just in terms of building aerobic capacity. Interesting things to consider.
Nayan, I can relate to the humid/hot progressive LRs
. They are tough. I think your last LR shows you are in a good place. I like your plan for making your London goal. For me, my first marathon was 3:31, second 3:21, and hoping to go sub 3:15 now. So we are on a similar journey
. Also, my 5K PB is roughly the same and have been thinking the same thing. Get my sub3:15, and then spend a cycle training/racing 5 and 10Ks and finish it w/a half marathon. Then move back to the marathon from there.
VT It's definitely a tough one to juggle, personally i'd probably have a bit less at the sub lt harder efforts to ensure the long run pace and effort, and then if I felt I could go longer on those effort i'd probably up the easy miles first.
LT Test this evening (1.5 miles at 140, 150, 160, 170, 180 bpm, 90 secs rest), it's taken me bloody hours to upload it to garmin connect as the other half had to download the new garmin express thingy to upload hers. Finally got it sorted anyway. First rep was all over the place as I don't think the heart rate strap had a good enough contact, so basically made sure this was at a really easy pace. Got hard during the 160 rep so definitely straying over LT here, then 170 rep and final 180 rep were increasingly brutal. Considering i've hit this effort over 5k and 10k I was surprised how tough it got in the end! Anyway, paces are as follows (target HR, avg HR, avg pace):
140 - 145, 9:42
150 - 147, 8:39
160 - 159, 7:55
170 - 166, 7:15
180 - 177, 6:45
Looking at the heart rate traces and pace it was fairly steady once up to the target heart rate. Hopefully the pace will improve at each heart rate, I think i'll leave it 6 weeks or so until I do this test again, can't say I enjoyed it too much!
Iower, much respect to you for enduring the test! Well done and now you've got your benchmarks. Will be interesting to see the next number in 6 weeks.
OK...think I found a new gear tonight...
What a difference a few days can make. Was dead on my feet at end of Sunday's LR. Today just felt strong and in control the whole way. Could have easily kept going with the subLT miles. BTW, I pushed a bit on the last one just because it felt like a crime not to...so HR a bit higher than it needed to be.
The Hokas were an experience at speed. The first mile I felt like I was kind of floating around a bit, but then realized I could really push into my steps w/out any brutal feedback from the road. Ended up with a really nice spring in the steps and a lighter foot for higher cadence. Was much easier to focus on light, happy feet.
Cheers, now nearly 24 hours later and it doesn't seem so bad haha, I was definitely having the "never again" thoughts on the last rep though. I'm going to find out when the local track is in use and will propably go there for the next test, which will result in faster times, but i'd rather it be as consistent as possible - yesterdays efforts were along the cycle track and although pretty flat and straight there's still slight inclines here and there which will affect pace and heart rate.
Some cracking pace there, you've got about a minute/mile on me at the moment then!
5 miles easy on grass planned for later, then i'm helping timekeep at a local cycling time trial this evening. It'll earn me a free entry another time so i'm happy with that, it's just fitting one in!
iower, can you translate those bpm's into %'s for my simple brain please? I'm guessing (similar to the HADD test) it's 70, 75. 80, 85 & 90%?
VT, as always a great set of paces/HR's
13 miles for me would probably be the same pace as you but using kilometres rather than miles
5 miles was cut to 4 this evening as I got bored of being chased by a dog on each lap of the cricket pitch. Ended up taking a loop of the housing estate near me instead but not quite as long as planned. Probably a good thing as the leg was pretty sore by the end of it, looks like it's 2 weeks on the bike for me
Hey Guys,
Back from holiday!! Just tried to catch up quickly with the thread.
iower, good effort with the LTtest.
VT, really interesting to read your experiences with the Hokas. Little while before I need a new pair of trainers but these are quickly rising in my estimation.
As said, back from hols. First time all inclusive so as you can imagine, have eaten and drank waaayyy too much (put on 6 pounds!!!!!). Very little running out there, 2x 1 hour runs on a treadmill. Otherwise rest of the time was spent lying down! First proper run for a fortnight this morning. Only 7.5 miles but looks like I haven't lost too much fitness, not that I had anything to lose in the first place! 7.5miles at 75% (150bpm) 10:25min/mile.
Gonna look to get a good few 75% runs in the next two weeks and then bring it up a bit.
Hope everyone is well.
BB
Just popping in to say I'm still alive
... been camping, so no interweb. Will try to catch up on the thread but am away again with my tent next week! 11 days away with 2 of them driving, but managed to run on all 9 days in-between (69 miles in total, all of them slow). Plan to get in a 5K race on Saturday and a 20M on Sunday. Next week involves 3 days hiking up/down mountains and then an 11.5 miles hilly trail race on Sunday (4th leg in a team relay event) ... after that it will be a very Hadd-like September. I promise! 
Just checking in quickly to congratulate VT on yet another stunning sub LT and iower on enduring the dreaded 2400m test
. No idea where that comes from. I never had achilles problems as a runner, only ever as a kid when I did gymnastics. And I'm using my trusted Kinvaras as per usual so it can't be the shoes. I'm hoping that heel raises, stretching, ice and anti-inflams do the trick. This sucks 
Great running on hols, Dr. D
Not so great running here. Buggered my achilles
Sorry, rant over.
Iower, what happened with your leg? 2 weeks off of running due to this? Hope it's not serious.
BB, I want to go on a vacation like that. Serious eating and rack time sounds fine to me!
DD, welcome back. Sounds like a good trip so far and more good stuff to come. Enjoy the xtraining (Hikes) and good luck on the races. I've spur of the moment decided to enter a very tough race coming up a week from this Monday. It's a 25K w/16 big hills (and many smaller ones). My wife's family has a place there so train part of the course several times a year on our trips. So I have a small idea of the pain in store (Gulp!). But figure why not as I'm due for a cutback week so I can kind of taper into it.
Chick, so sorry to hear about your Achilles!
Be sure to include the eccentric heel drops on the stairs. Hope it sorts out quickly.
So subLT #2 done. Trend continues. Finally dialed one in w/very little HR drift. Pace felt very calm. Legs did start to feel a little tired in last 3 miles, but cardiowise not issues. An interesting stat for the Hokas...have brought my cadence up on this route form 87 steps/min/leg (from 83/84 in the Nimbus). I'm in love with these shoes
Eccentric heel drops is what I meant by heel raises. I've done so many that my calves are properly sore today. I'm pretty sure the achilles problems come from tight calves so hopefully. stretching, massaging and foam rollering will have me on the road again in a week or so.
Chick, the other thing you can do is to squat down on your heels, then slowly lean forward so all your weight shifts onto the front of one of your feet. Then you can push so that you are on each part of the front of your foot (think working the little toe area, then the middle toes, then the big toe). That should really stretch out the calves (in addition to standard wall stretching w/leg straight or bent). This one stretch has kept my previously gnarled up calves very loose and happy fellas.
Too bad you can't try the shoes. The other benefit I just noticed is how fresh my legs feel today. Normally I'd be walking a bit like an old man after a subLT session, but today feel pretty normal. I'm tempted to get a more complete version of their shoes for my nonfast running days. But might beg for an injury to go fully over at this point. Will just stick to the Nimbus for all other runs (but they feel so heavy and brick-like now!).
Superb subLTing VT!
I'm sure you'll rock that 25K hilly race as you're in great shape.
Good luck with the Achilles Chick!
5.3 mi yesterday, including a 5K parkrun at 6:40/m
... then 20.3 mi today, with 6 mi at MP (7:52/m for 78% maxHR). Legs felt tired for the last 2 of those 6 MP miles but probably not surprising given the 5K the day before. Brings up 50 for the week.
My HR trouble seem to have settled nicley- 18 miles today ( desperately slowly ), but ave HR = 133, so can't comp;lain about that.
Will go back to trying to work at time on feet at low HR noe, since suddenyl it all seems possible again.
4 weeks til my ultra.................we'll see.
DD, hope you are right
. Nice back-to-back BTW. I bet your legs were a bit tired on a fast finish 20 the day after a race!
Good effort and those are nice miles in the bank. Get a bit of rest before hammering the next one
...
Tricia, glad to hear you've rebounded. Much luck as you narrow in on the target race.
Did 20M P&D style today. 1st half in the 8:20-30 range...second half right around 7:40...came out as 8:08 and HR 70%. Felt awesome until the last 3 miles. Kind of like last week, but not a bad. Ready for my cutback week. So far I've been doing 2 weeks on, 1 cutback, repeat. Last time round went 3 (or more) weeks before cutting back. Thinking maybe more frequent rest is a better strategy for me.
Mokshaeight = roy
hi all ,still reading daily, just to let you know about name change.
WB Roy! Your knew username reads like 'mock shite' to me!
Eee up ... back from camping with 3 days of heavy duty hiking up the mountains with full pack. The only run this week was yesterday's team trail relay race. Difficult terrain (hilly and some very gnarled up trails) and I was running with a team-mate (you have to run in pairs) who is a 1:40 half marathon runner, so it wasn't flat out for me ... came out at 81% maxHR, so I'll put it down as a subLT/MP session. The down-time scuppered August's mileage total, so ended up with 186 miles with just 42 on the bike. But happy given August included 3 weeks holiday, which is always a potential pitfall for me.