HADD Training Method

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  • Hi , Will post in here as my new posts seam to disapear.
    I started running before summer. I run 3 times a week on average and do about 13 miles a week. I built up to doing 5k parkruns did gateshead 5k the ther week in 24:44 and this week im doing 10k but after that i have no races planed other then the parkruns. Next year I want to do the GNR and some longer distances.

    Just looking for some advice really should i be doing HADD or just continue with a 5k fast a tempo run and a long run. with me been new.

    I got a heartrate monitor last week My resting hr is averaging 74, im 5'8 and 11 stone. on my last park run which is hilly my heartrate for most of it was 180-190 and when i sprinted right at the very end it went up to 200 thats me flat out. time was 26:14 . But its a tough course my pb there is 26:10 .

    So reading thru the document I should work on a besr possible HRmarathon of 175-177.

    Easy running days of 145hr and a LTHR of 155-160?

    Could you reccomend a plan for that or how to build up?

  • WOW, the thread got busy recently!

    Carrie, safety first for me hence the choice of 4 wheels image  Well done on the (almost) PB and yup, if you stick to 5k pace plus 5 minutes for a while you'll soon be bringing the HR down.

    Teknik, am in awe of someone that does a 5 mile warmup before a HM then runs it at 7:49 so well done regardless of the HR. As always, impressive weekly stats!

    Brian, WB stranger! Jeez, just after reading Tekniks mammoth warmup routine I see you did 12 miles to warmup for a 10!!! Not sure I'll be trying that lol. How id P&D going? remaining injury free?

    VTrunner wrote (see)

    HADD myself a run today... 

    VT, I see what you did there and an excellent 21 miler! and yes, looks like your peaking at the right time image

    Dr.Dan, very nice run at the weekend and am sure you'll make the right choice re next weekendimage

    Hi Johnny, I think Carter has it right re the HM and as for hitting a plateau after 3 weeks, I'm not sure that is long enough for any noticeable difference with HADDing. 

    Carter, well done on the sub 3 minute mile Sir image and yup, hope a new battery sorts it. As for the food/drink over the weekend, thats me 7 days a weekimage

    Welcome to the thread James image As always sound advice from the others re starting out and just remember, HADDing is a long term plan and not a quick fix. Well done on the run and glad to hear the toothpaste ananolgy getting an airing too image

    Mace, txs for the reminder and as a newbie 54 year old I consider you a relative youngster lol

    Well, just a 4 miler and 2 miler left in taper before Loch Ness and went out for a 3 miler today - as always have been running the shorter runs (too) quickly and today saw a sub 30 minute 5k was on the cards at 2 miles so went for it. Muppet hear stopped the watch at 3.11 miles and 30:00 dead then messed up, started the watch again (for an unknown reason) and Garmin shows 3.13 miles and 30:11 - still a SB by 24 seconds so will take that. AHR was 76% but MAX was up to 86.7. It does look like I'll get to my target of a sub 30 min 5k with a sub 75%AHR by Christmas and will put that down to HADDing image

     

     

  • Yesterday off, 10 M recovery jog today. Legs felt a bit beat up after Sunday's effort. Will probably have another easy run tomorrow. I would like to get another subLT session in this week and then decide on whether my 16 ml LR this weekend will be easy or progressive. Any taper advice (Brian, you still lurking?image). I'm balancing getting all I can before race day and not reinjuring my ITB. It's been a fine line for the past 7 wks now...

  • I'm back now   mixing it up with hills.    Noticed I had terrible drift last night.    It was warm and I needed a drink but suspect I have lost some aerobic condition.    Will this come back with the long miles? 

     

  • Mace, good to hear from you. Much the same as you really - had 18months off marathons to concentrate on the shorter distances, specifically to transfer upwards aiming at another crack at sub2.55 mara.

    James,  time-on-feetis important to the development of your aerobic system so doubling up will help. Be careful though, and keep one eye on  not increasing the mileage (or indeed time) too quickly. But my view is that 2x45mins does not have the same benefits as a 90min run.

    Andi, I have been mara training (15 week build-up) but not p&d. My own schedule and this time I have changed things mainly around speed sessions. Never bothered about speedwork til the last 4 weeks or so before. But after taking some advice I have done the faster stuff right from day 1. Another big difference is when I have previously done my mp work, I have always run this session (sort of like a hadd sub-lt) by running 90 mins with 70mins at 83%. This pace increases as the improvements occur.

    But this time I have run at target mp from the start, and built the time.

  • Ran out of space -

    Vt, ah taper. Taper schmaper. I hate tapers. But for the record here is my take.

    I prefer a 2 week as opposed to the text book 3 weeker. 3 weeks out is normally my last 20miler. Then start to cut volume but not intensity. 2 weeks out I prefer to do an easy 18 miler. Then 1 week out a 13miler with some (up to half) of it at target mp.

    In the last week I do 3 easy runs (8, 6 and 5) and 1 harder run of about 7 or 8 miles with 2 or 3 at target mp. Rest tues and saturday.

    Hope that helps.

  • Spen,  your aerobic fitness wil return quickly, and yes the long runs are the key sessions in pushing up the lactate threshold and growing the mitochondria. 

  • Ran out of space -

    Vt, ah taper. Taper schmaper. I hate tapers. But for the record here is my take.

    I prefer a 2 week as opposed to the text book 3 weeker. 3 weeks out is normally my last 20miler. Then start to cut volume but not intensity. 2 weeks out I prefer to do an easy 18 miler. Then 1 week out a 13miler with some (up to half) of it at target mp.

    In the last week I do 3 easy runs (8, 6 and 5) and 1 harder run of about 7 or 8 miles with 2 or 3 at target mp. Rest tues and saturday.

    Hope that helps.

  • Ah refresh thingy. Some things never change. Its good to be back.

    Andi, is it Loch Ness this Sunday?  Wow thats come round quick!! The very best of luck (not that you'll need it cos you are very well prepared).

  • I've done 2 5k+3m runs now and averaged 75% and 76% but my HR does rise somewhat when i go up the mile long gentle hill. Is there a rule for going downhill, do i still stick to my 5k+3m pace or can i let it go a little? Have also knocked the dreaded cigarettes on the head as well, not that i had many but i suppose 1 is 1 too many really.

    Oh and i got in the ballot today image

  • Hi carrie, as with the hr,  the pace should (will probably) change as you go up and down the hills. This shouldn't affect the average by much though. When I tackle a hill I tend to have a max in mind, mainly so I dont work too hard. Just relax co ing down, but aim to keep your form ( lean forwards a little, so as to try and maintain 90' to the ground).

  • Congrats on the ballot and giving up the fags!

  • Just went for another 50 minute 70%HR run today and according to my Garmin my average pace was 5.54/km. Was a bit surprised  as my pace yesterday for the same HR and same course was 5.39/km. Anyone find that their pace varies from day to day? Perhaps it is because my body is still getting used to the slow pace (my legs actually feel more tired than when I used to go for my faster runs...weird!). I wonder if over time my pace will stabilise a bit more.

      

  • Brian, Thanks for the info. That helps me a lot. The 21 mile run was 3 wks out...so this weekend I'll probably shoot for 16-18 easy (and work in an 8-10 mile subLT effort before then). It's been a strange build up as I lost about 8 weeks of high volume training due to injury, then have had about 7-8 weeks to chase that lost fitness down. I might have gotten enough back to make things interesting though.

    And Andi, good luck and knock 'em dead! You're readyimage!!

  • James3 - think of ALL the things that can affect our millions of cells in our body - food, drink, sleep, rest, exercise, stress, fatigue, ambient temperature, humidity, etc., etc. and you will understand that no two days will be the same. What you are aiming for is a consistency over time - not from one day to the next, so honestly don't worry about it, the consistency will come over time. I was the same when I started HADD - same route, same pace - different HR - now all I look for is change over maybe a 4 to 6 week period.

    Andi - YOU WILL SMASH ITimage Good luck (no pressure - whole of HADD thread will be waiting)image

  • Brian, yup, it's this Sunday so fngers crossed image Good luck with your Mara Brian and it will be interesting to see if/what difference the extra speed sessions make to you time.

    VT, BeDe, Carter et al, thanks for the good luck messages too image

    21 weeks training has now finished, an 18 week plan with 3 illness/injury weeks built in (took lazyitiss weeks instead). Thats 542 miles in 143 days 3.79 miles/day (26.54 miles/week). Am hoping thats enough for my first Marathon and will find out on Sunday lol.

    Oh, had a great idea yesterday and went to the Charity Shop and picked up a pair of tracksuit bottoms and a hoody for £5.98 - the idea was to discard them at the start however they are quite mice so may keep them and wear something else to discardimage

  • Andi, you may have just been kidding, but I say nothing new on raceday!image After 26.2, you'll find even your normal wear will literally wear marks into you!!image

  • lol VT, nooo, I didn't mean I'd wear the 'new' stuff after the race, just that I might throw some other gear away. Have someone at the end to help me slip into one of those long padded swimming coats.

  • imageGo Andi Go Andi Go Andi image ... best of luck!image

    I followed up Sunday's 18.5M ... with a 20M yesterday, with 5M at MP. Hard work but felt  Sunday's outing was too easy and that I needed one more "20". I have a 10K race on Sunday (3 weeks to go) and I still plan to do a longish MP run (16M) with 2.5 weeks to go ... and then taper for 2 weeks.

  • Dr.Dan - good running. What was your heart rate for the 20m run ?

    James - I've been HADDing for 7 weeks now and no 2 days are the same for me. I look at my stats over each week and I havent seen much of a change over those 7 weeks yet. I am assured that the improvements will come in time but I expect it will take longer for me as I am only managing about 20 miles a week at the moment.

    Andi - no more beer and rubbish food for you for the next 3 days ! Get plenty of sleep and 1 or maybe 2 little runs to keep the legs ticking over. Go smash it fella !

  • I ran in to work this morning. It was 7 miles fairly flat with a little climb towards the end. I had my rucksack with me so I had to work a tad harder and this was shown in the fact that I ran at 9:41 with an AHR of 129 which is about 4/5 beats higher than an average run at that pace. I intend to start increasing the weekly mileage now, slowly of course, and hopefully the knee will hold up

  • carter ... first 12M were at 70-71% maxHR, then came the 5M at MP which, once HR had risen and stabilised, came out at 81% maxHR. Then I slowed down again to 73% for the last 3M as I was spent!! Interestingly, when I did a full 16M at MP a couple of weeks ago, my HR in the last few miles was also at 80-81% maxHR, so there didn't seem to be much difference between doing the first 10-12 easy or at MP. I felt better on the 16M run though ... don't think Sunday's 18+ was the best prep for yesterday's 20.image

  • Dr.Dan - so come race day, will you run to heart rate or based on how you feel ?

  • bit late responding but thanks for the encouragement for my forthcoming Robin Hood Half carterusm - after three weeks of just running at sub 75% I'm curious what's left in the tank - I'm worried the answer is nowt. Great run to work today btw

  • Quick post, sorry: Good luck Andi, and Roy, at Nessie !  Johnny best of luck at the Robin Hood half, and Mace, go print an awesome time at Folkestoneimage

    Dr Dan - well done on an impressive midweek 20.  I followed your idea and ran a "sub-subLT", with an 80% lid, printing 7:44mm and feeling much more relaxed. image

  • Johnny- they'll be plenty in the tank! Ideally, a HM needs  focussed quality sessions but that shouls all come on top od a solid base. Enjoy the race while you bake the cake. image

    carter- I think I'll run to pace but keep an eye on HR as I don't want to go over 80% maxHR in the first 10M.

    Tek - that's the same pace as my sub-sub-LT pace ... which I'm currently referring to as MP. How long was the run?

  • Caterusm,

         interesting point your running with rucksack  gave you higher HR, suppose the same applies if you are X overweight !!

    Teknik

        thxs

    Andi

    All the best and might bump into you this W/E.

  • Dr Dan it was only 7m (ran out of time) but from here on I've got 2 subLTs and/or MP finishes to the long run, per week, and I'm going to do all in the 79/80% area, which for me is going to be "MP" - I've chickened out on 83% as (first half) MP HRimage

  • It appears my posts have been disappearing so will try again 

     

    Hi , Will post in here as my new posts seam to disapear.
    I started running before summer. I run 3 times a week on average and do about 13 miles a week. I built up to doing 5k parkruns did gateshead 5k the ther week in 24:44 and this week im doing 10k but after that i have no races planed other then the parkruns. Next year I want to do the GNR and some longer distances.

    Just looking for some advice really should i be doing HADD or just continue with a 5k fast a tempo run and a long run. with me been new.

    I got a heartrate monitor last week My resting hr is averaging 74, im 5'8 and 11 stone. on my last park run which is hilly my heartrate for most of it was 180-190 and when i sprinted right at the very end it went up to 200 thats me flat out. time was 26:14 . But its a tough course my pb there is 26:10 .

    So reading thru the document I should work on a besr possible HRmarathon of 175-177.

    Easy running days of 145hr and a LTHR of 155-160?

    Could you reccomend a plan for that or how to build up?

  • Dr. Dan, great efforts but please, please mind the cakeimage!! That oven is HOT lately. You've been pounding fairly relentlessly for a long stretch now and I can't imagine you need to do anything else at this point but simply not drop the cake when you take it out of the ovenimage. Best of luck this weekend.

    In my little corner, my ITB was tight on the last run so took yesterday off. Have PT today and will decide during the run whether this will be my subLT for the week or not. I think I'm the only person who hasn't run any races to prepare, but at this point I just want all appendages still attached and working moderately well at the start. My whole philosophy on the subLTs has been that they are the pace I hope I can run over the last 6-10 miles of the race. For me, that would be 7 to 7:10 m/m. But for the first (longest part of the race) I'm hoping that a 7:30-7:40 will feel comfortable and not blow the top off my HR. This is assuming all goes perfectly of courseimage. Anyway, I'm hoping my next two subLTs are in the low 7 range to confirm what I've seen in my past few efforts.

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