HADD Training Method



  • Mind if I join you all?

    Just starting to train by HR to build a base over the coming months and my, this feels slow to start with! My maxHR is 201 (tested, not using the age based formula) and sometimes hits 120bpm just by walking.

    Anyway, managed to keep HR around 150bpm with a few laps at 11:18 minute mile pace on my first go - a couple of laps in a flat park which was just short of 3k. Having to stop and walk 4 times to keep HR down was a humbling experience. image

    Enough talk from me though, time to go do more laps...

  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    best of luck with it Zicksi101!

  • Thanks Nayan!

    Done 10k today at 150 HR, no walking stops on this occasion, probably just a bit impetuous on the first go, image

    Pace bottomed out around 13min/mile, averaged 12:18min/mile by the end. Noticed the pace got a little quicker at the same HR once the wind died down.

    Just looking back at some of the older posts, looks like HADDing is working well for many of you which is always encouraging to see!

  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    right at the start you may well find that any kind of running movement at all (i.e. both feet off the same time, as opposed to walking where at least one foot is always touching the ground) sends your heart rate up.

    No problem, just go as slow as you possibly can as long as you are running. It will probably feel weird, but don't worry about you - you have a plan after all.

    Nothing wrong with stopping for brief walk breaks either. 

  • VT, DD, good to see you both have similar ideas for 2015 and I'm going out on a limb and saying your both going about it the right way - the results should be awesome!

    Nayan, you have much more chance of getting a gfa than I do - apparently I (only) need a 3:20 so that's not gonna happen.

    Welcome zicks image our paths briefly crossed in the sub 2 hour HM thread. A 2hr HM should give you a 5k time of 25:55 (8:21mm's). Presuming this is correct? it has been said that when starting out if getting the HR down or/and the pace is too slow for you then start with your 5k time plus 3 mins mile which would give you a goal pace of 11:21.

    I think that's right anways??

    So, bad weather today, lots of rain and 40kph wind but went out to for my innaugral subLT run. Just 2 x 5 mins at 80% but that was enough for me to start! When I got back I saw my 30 min run covered 3.31 miles - 1 sec/mile faster than my (current) 5k pb pace so that was nice image

  • Thanks Ecce,

    In reality my 5k time is 24.19. That's why I'm here.image

  • Mp zicks, am sure you'll do just fine here though HADDing is not a quick fix. have you gone through the links at the start of this thread yet?

    I know you shouldn't compare 2 single runs but, I started (sort of) following HADD July 2013 and on 23rd Oct 2013 ran 3 miles at 11:46mm pace with an AHR of 76.6%. today's run with similar conditions/elevation was 3.31 miles at 9:04mm pace and 73.4% AHR.

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    Off to Dublin in the morning ... I have the start of a throat infection and today's 4.3 mi run (like yesterday's 5.4) was rubbish. If my legs feel like that, I won't make it past 10 miles. Some serious rest and refuelling required between now and Monday morning!

  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    Best of Luck Dr Dan.

  • DD, you felt like this before the last race too! No worries, you'll be good on the day. You still have several days to get that spring back. And lots of eating to do too!image Really hoping the throat is just a random thing and to the onset of a sinus infection. Rest up, stay well, and don't be _______!.

    Welcome Zicksi101. Lots of knowledgeable folk here. Pull up a chair.

    Legs nearly DOMS free today. Think I'll wait till this weekend to test the waters on an easy jog.

    Good Clifton review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShBwr6u1w6M


  • Dr.Dan, fingers crossed tis nothing serious and go gently on the Guinness!

    VT, good to hear the legs are getting better and take it easy this next few weeks (ie, practice what you preach lol).

    Nayan, it's almost Halloween, still walking like a Zombie?

    Another windy/rainy day but made it out for 60 (easy) minutes... 5.9 miles (10:10 pace) and an AHR of 70.21%. This compares to 24/10/13 (10/24/13 for VT) and 5.02 miles (11:13 pace) and 77.13%.

  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    ecce:  pretty close to just feeling a little tired now. I had earmarked today for a deep massage. That and foam rolling have helped. Have onlh been walking- no running yet.  Thats for Sunday or monday

  • DD, meant to say NOT the onset of a sinus infection!!image

    Andi, that's quite an improvement in 1 year's time. Am taking it super easy so far but know next week I'll be tempted to push. Will be good though, promise.

  • Long runs restricted to 15 to 16 mile maximum and work towards improving  my 38:xx 10k and 1:22:30 HM times. I have no further plans to ever run a marathon ever again unless I can run sub 37 mins for 10k, sub 80 mins for HM and sneak a sub 17 mins for 5k/Park Run. I need to achieve my shorter time goals to give me the confidence boost that a sub 2 hour and 50 minute marathon is a realistic goal.

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Good luck for Monday Dr Dan !image

  • Hope the sore throat goes away, Dr. D image. Fingers crossed you feel healthy and ready to rock on Monday image

    I'm full of cold too and pray it doesn't turn chesty image asthma plus bronchitis is never a good combo ...

    Nayan: I had to laugh out loud when I read about the P&D folks forcing themselves to do mesocycle 5image

    I'm a big fan of P&D and managed a few successful campaigns on their plans but I never ever bothered to follow their post race routine. If I didn't feel like running I wouldn't and the last thing I'd do was fast stuff about a week after my marathon ...

    Welcome zicksi image
  • DD, how did it go? I got the idea that weather was not good out there today. Hope you held up in less than ideal conditions.

    5 miles in Sunday for my first run. Everything still works, but not much snap in the legs right now. Think I'll take it easy for a while longer...

  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    Much the same here.  Pretty rusty

  • Hope it went well for you Dr Dan!

    Interesting run for me tonight, 4.2 miles, average 147 HR, 10:57 min/mile pace. image

    Was expecting to be slower as the route included hills, my garmin claims a 300ft elevation gain. Cooler temperature helped a lot I expect.

    Having now seen HR increase at rest but actually reduce on standing, I now realise I was probably still overtrained last week. Yup, that would make a difference alright!

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    ee-up image... back from Dublin and will report in more full later. I still felt rough on Saturday but was much better by Sunday .... Monday was a windy day and the course was hillier than I'd expected ... 3:39 in the end but finished strongly for the first time ever (25-26 was 7:43 and 26-26.2 was at 7:20/m ... I even hit 98% maxHR in the wind up). DOMS was not too bad and no blisters etc, so am quite enjoying the aftermath. More when I catch up with real life ...

  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    Nice finish Dr Dan ! image 

  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    well done Dr dan

  • Nice one Dr Dan and good to see you managed a sprint finish - can't wait for the review.

    zicks, still (very) early days HADD wise so probably put this run down to the weather - we HADDers love the cooler seasons.

    No run for me today so November will be my first month of the year under 100 miles and rather than chase stats decided to look after myself. 


  • Well done Dr Dan, looks like you enjoyed it from that finish! image

    Thanks Ecce, good point. Take care of yourself. Everything in moderation, including moderation.image

  • DD, so happy to hear you finished like a lion!!image Awesome job "nailing" the race. I saw your comments in the P&D thread about how you felt at the end. I totally get that. I was pinching myself in the last couple miles because I felt so damn good and was just flying by people (like you say as if they were walking!). Such a great way to finish. The spectators actually pay attention to you because you are so fresh and alert. Anyway, awesome way to wrap up the year (and may the next marathon feel so good!). Now we can get some fast stuff going. Recover well!

    As for me, have had 2 good runs this week. Not sure how or why, but Tuesday ended up being 5M w/4 at MP (can't even explain this stupidity other than to say it felt awesome and I didn't get hurt). Wed 6M at 70%image. Today rest (fought off the urge to get out). Earned a nice Friday easy run though.image Feeling really good as I work towards the winter base phase. Will not miss doing 17-22 mile runs for a long while nowimage.

  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    Zicks you might try running 3x10min sections with 2 min walk breaks to bring your heart rate back down again. When that gets easy make it 2*15mons so less breaks. Then lose that break and go for 30min straight.  

    Then increase the duration. All the time forget about pace and just think about controlling your heart rate and breathing

  • Great race DD. The future looks good for your next marathon.

    Ran Snowdon marathon last W/E in 4h 12m at AHR of 80% max.

    Died a thousand deaths between 16 and 21 miles but came back  mentally strong but nothing in the legs. Last 3 miles took me 38 mins which makes me smile every time I think of it. Any way it was a great W/E whatever the results say.

    Looking at Mont st Michel marathon in June next year and will be looking at a sub 3.30 then  image 

  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭

    OK then … here’s the full blog-styled match report - switch off now if you’re easily boredimage.

    Background … I started running (after a 23 year break) in 2008 age 42 … fat and unfit but improved quickly, although I didn’t get training to full capacity until summer 2010 when I had a heart operation (ablation) to sort out my exercise-induced supraventricular tachycardia. In Nov 2010 I just about went sub-40 at 10K (39:55, age 44) and in Jan 2011 I was just on the wrong side of sub-90 at HM (90:06, age 44) … I then set my sights on the marathon, getting 3:32 in Oct 2011 (age 45), after pushing too hard from 14-20 mi and then getting severe hamstring cramp at 23 mi and hobbling home. I jumped straight back on the horse too soon and consequently lost 4 months training due to injury! Started again in March 2012, aiming for a marathon in Oct 2012 … only to get ill during taper and abandon. I rescued the year with a 40:27 10K in Oct (still my WAVA PB). 2013 started well but I over-trained and lost 2 months to PF in early Spring. However, since June 2013, I’ve managed 17 months injury free, with three completed marathon campaigns … the first one resulted in 3:38 in Oct 2013 and the second in 3:37 in April 2014 – similar times, however I was fitter for the 2nd but I went too fast and suffered in the last 10K … the 1st race was better judged but I still suffered badly in the last 2 mi.

    And so to the third campaign! I rested a bit too much after London … I dabbled with running and cycling in May and finally got going properly in June, the plan being to follow a P&D inspired schedule but with the speed work in the later mesocycle being replaced by Hadd subLT work. I would also avoid races … I had a feeling that any significant amount speed work displaces endurance and turns me back into my natural 5K/10K phenotype. I also decided to try to do two marathons, spaced by 4 weeks… it may not be normal practice but I felt like it might take the pressure off the “all-or-nothing” nature of the usual marathon campaign (I’m still haunted by missing Chester in 2012 through illness). The idea was to do a minimal taper for the first and then recover/tick over for the second.

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