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HADD Training Method
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I'm going to recap my 10k race on Sunday for those who missed it and frankly, for myself as I am very pleased with it!
The race began with a half km of weaving, but quickly settled into a relaxed, but strong pace. I finished in 41:06. However, the route was short by some few hundred metres, so I'll settle for 10k time of 41:40, which is still 2 minutes better than the last 10k in September.
Interestingly, I spent a good number of weeks doing speedwork in preparation. For this race, just normal, uninterrupted Hadd training. The race's average pace was 6:54/m - a pace I haven't come close to in training. The subLT runs are around 7:30-40/m.
In short, I'm delighted with the training! It really works and holds promise of a lot more to come.
Dan Donnely, Hadd training is not a quick fix. Yes, it does take time. But just remember, a 10k is about 95% aerobic. Why spend so much time working on 5%, when you could work on the 95% in phase 1 (base), making your paces so much faster? To me it's a no-brainer. Tell us more about yourself and your training.
Shades, perhaps I'll try 195 as a max. It doesn't have to be precise, so a round number works better.
Martyn, how's it going? Obviously, I've missed a posting of yours. Good news that bathroom saga is over then! Back to full training!
Dr Dan, hello! Do drop in every so often!
Mokshaeight, welcome (back)! Wow, 1.5/m faster for a lower HR is astonishing! Please give us more details about your training and timelines.
Did you wear your HRM in your 10k race, just out of curiosity to know what your %HR was? My last 10k race was in 2010 an undulating course, I did PB and my HR was 91%.
There's no need to alter your MHR for stats, you may as well stay as you are for comparison of stats, but I think your HR is probably around 200. It would be very hard at the end of a half marathon to push your HR up to max.
Mokshaeight - that's great progress, you must be really pleased with that.
Mile - ave pace - ave HR
1 - 6:52 - 152
2 - 6:57 - 171
3 - 6:43 - 172
4 - 7:00 - 169
5 - 7:04 - 166
6 - 6:31 - 172
As I mentioned earlier, there was no .2 at the end of this race - it ran short. If you'll discount mile 1, the ave HR was 170 (78% - 80%) - a far cry from 90-something percent which I should be capable of after a few more months of solid Hadd training. If I remember correctly, I guessed that my LT on the last test (4 weeks ago) was around 168, so I suppose I could have done better than this...
Shades, in that Half, I was averaging a pretty flat 157 right till the end. The final ~0.3 mile was a steep hill, which is what brought up the HR to 193. I didn't sprint up that hill at an all-out effort and didn't collapse or die on the finish line.
But as you say as you weren't in 90's you can go faster in the future.
Had a fantastic 5 mile run this morning @10:45 69% despite the milder weather.
Felt great after my weekly foam rolling, knee and hip exercises last night.
Not sure about this new site.
So, first proper ILTHR session for some time... 10.7 miles total with 8.3 at target HR. I did a 1.7 mile warm-up first, which included a mile at target pace in order to get the HR into the right zone and to get the monitor working. Then a quick stretch, before doing 8 x 1.04 mile laps of a local park.... 0.7 miles cool down.
PACE HR (bpm)
1, 7:15 140
2, 7:23 144
3, 7:29 144
4, 7:29 144
5, 7:27 144
6, 7:23 145
7, 7:24 146
8, 7:23 146
So, 7:24 /m average pace at 144.1 bpm (79.6 % maxHR). Happy with the pace and lack of significant drift.
Martyn, thanks! Is that an improvement there?
Dr Dan, not officially short, no, it was labeled a '10k.' However, many other finishers around me were too looking at their watches in puzzlement.
Great stats for your run. Metronomic!
Mokshaeight, well then, what are you waiting for? Get out and do it!
If you haven't done it before, or not for a while, it's probably best to start with 3-4x15 minutes, graduating to 3x20 and 2x30 before going to one hour. If necessary, repeat each step.
I had a fantastic subLT run this evening. This was my first attempt at a 1-hour continuous. The wheels started wobbling slightly on the last mile, but didn't fall off. On the other hand, when the hour was up, I was glad to stop. Which means that I must repeat until 'I could go round again if I had to, even if I don't.' The first mile involved crossing a major junction and having to stop and wait, which affected the pace and HR. I'm particularly pleased, as this is 10-15 seconds/m faster than last time. Target HR was 80%, or 154.
1 - 7:51 - 150
2 - 7:28 - 153
3 - 7:15 - 155
4 - 7:24 - 155
5 - 7:33 - 154
6 - 7:33 - 154
7 - 7:40 - 154
8 - 7:35 - 153
Ave - 7:33 - 154
This was preceded by 2.5 miles, including strides and followed by 2 miles cool down.
Hi there,
excellent sub LT runs there Dr. D and Sol (like icon - it's unfortunately gone ...)
Makes me want to go out and run properly again ... I need to up mileage before I do anything resembling proper training though.
A lazy 2 weeks in Floriday followed by 2 weeks off with the lurgy result in no fitness whatsoever. Ho hum. Better get my ass in gear then... luckily I have no serious plans for 2017. Just trying to get back into some sort of shape. I'm yoga-fit but it doesn't translate into running-fit
Presumably I just keep doing what I'm doing and watch the HR come down and pace go up? Also when is it advantageous to throw in a sub LT run in and what would be a good way to start?
Nice even LT splits by Sol2 and Dr Dan.
Nice to see you posting again Chicksta.
@11:19
7 hours 58 mins
@70% av hr
The key runs of the week were
Thursday - 1m w/u, 8 m LT run @9:33, 78%, 1m c/d
Saturday - 15.50m LSR 68% @12:06
The LSR mileage was down on the 20m the week before with one eye on my 20m race in two weeks meaning I knocked this back a little.
The LSR was done after just four hours sleep at 5am due to noisy neighbours keeping me awake. I figured it would be good practice to run when tired as nobody can ever guarantee a good nights sleep the night before a race due to nerves etc.
How does everyone else's stats compare?
I may be wrong, but I think that before moving to the subLT runs, you need to have the ability to run for an hour without HR drift (counting from 15 minutes in, after HR stabilises). Are you there yet?
Martyn, excellent work!
Total miles: 37
Total time: 5hrs 5
Average HR (aside from subLT): 131 (68%)
Average pace (aside from subLT): 8:34
Long run 16 miles in 2:22 @67%
Despite the low mileage week, I am pleased with a very nice increase in sub-70% pace - about 25-30 seconds per mile better than 2 weeks ago! Something is working...
My next test is due this week. I hope to be pleasantly surprised. I just hope the weather behaves...
I'm due another Hadd test too but will wait for a calm day. I've had a better training week as the weather has been better, not cold and no ice, 70 miles this week.
Iprice - I think on Hadd's original document when you can run 10 miles at 70% MHR with no change in pace and no cardiac drift then you move on to introducing some faster stuff.
Martyn - that's such a sensible idea to run when a little lacking in sleep, a poor night's sleep before a race is no excuse for a poor race....unless out clubbing all night
Have you decided on your next race? I may of forgot.
Cheers @SHADES, yes a lsr whilst hammered would have lots of comedy value, although I am scared to run after a lunchtime pint due paranoia about getting injured, let alone a lsr lol. I'm hoping for a good nights sleep the night before the race as that 15.5m run was not the most pleasant experience to be honest.
Good luck with the Parkrun @DrDan.
I finally got around to doing a Hadd test this morning!!!
I gave up trying to fit a test in at my track as its only open four hours a week and my available hours never to suit, and even when I am available, the track is to packed.
So instead, I decided to try a lake that I have done some LSR's on before and seemed as flat as I can find in MK.
It turned out that instead of 2400 meters, it suited me to do this as a 1.9 mile loop which measured slightly more at 3040 meters. This distance also had me stopping about 400 meters from where I would start, giving me the same amount of time between each set assuming I was walking at the same pace after each set to rest.
Aim Avbpm % Pace
140 137 71 11:15
150 149 77 10:14
160 159 82 9:22
170 167 86 8:42
180 175 90 8:05
I found it hard to hit the last two which also had a stronger breeze and some nice drizzle to cool me down.
Roll on early April when I will do another one to compare with!
Martyn - well done on the Hadd test. Make a little note of how each HR felt too , legs/breathing and you can also compare that too next time. After all the months of base training and keep our HR down it's not easy to try and raise the HR for the higher rates in the test.
I might do a Hadd test next week before my March races start, just to see how things are going.
Dr Dan - I wanted a gentle base pace run today but ended up with a much higher HR battling against the wind.. Not much chance of even splits in this weather.
I gave up on the test this week, as it's been wayyy too windy, thanks to Doris. Hopefully next week.
I did a subLT tonight instead, adding a mile (to last week, which was 8 miles in 61 minutes) making 9 miles in 68 minutes. Despite a strong headwind during the first half, making things very difficult, I still managed reasonable splits, slightly positive, but not terribly so. The second half, was sheltered, providing very little wind and, annoyingly, not even a tail wind to compensate me! Overall pace was 7:34/m - just a second slower than last week!
Martyn, that actually was not a scheduled cutback week! Just ended up being a low mileage week, due mainly to half term. Being self employed and my wife with a regular day job, I'm the one who has to take off every school holiday and every time one of the (4) kids is poorly. Additionally, it just works out that the best time to get out for a run is in the evening, once the little ones are tucked away. But if life gets in the way, then evening quickly turns to night. Sometimes, by the time I am free, it is too late or I'm anyway exhausted from another long day... Don't listen to me moaning.
Next race is a Half (Wilmslow) at the end of March. Next up will be the Manchester Half the end of May. I'm sure I'll smash my PB in Wilmslow (1:38, set last September) and I dream of a fantastic race in May. A couple of ten-kays in the summer.
Iprice, Shades, I mentioned 1 hour with a consistent pace/HR relationship, as this is what I remember, but I may, of course, be wrong. I do believe though, that the HR does not have to be 70%, but may be 75%. Remember, Hadd gave Joe zone of 70-75%.
When I find time, I'll try to find some Hadd quotes on the subject.
I gave up on the test this week, as it's been wayyy too windy, thanks to Doris. Hopefully next week.
I did a subLT tonight instead, adding a mile (to last week, which was 8 miles in 61 minutes) making 9 miles in 68 minutes. Despite a strong headwind during the first half, making things very difficult, I still managed reasonable splits, slightly positive, but not terribly so. The second half, was sheltered, providing very little wind and, annoyingly, not even a tail wind to compensate me! Overall pace was 7:34/m - just a second slower than last week!
Martyn, that actually was not a scheduled cutback week! Just ended up being a low mileage week, due mainly to half term. Being self employed and my wife with a regular day job, I'm the one who has to take off every school holiday and every time one of the (4) kids is poorly. Additionally, it just works out that the best time to get out for a run is in the evening, once the little ones are tucked away. But if life gets in the way, then evening quickly turns to night. Sometimes, by the time I am free, it is too late or I'm anyway exhausted from another long day... Don't listen to me moaning.
Next race is a Half (Wilmslow) at the end of March. Next up will be the Manchester Half the end of May. I'm sure I'll smash my PB in Wilmslow (1:38, set last September) and I dream of a fantastic race in May. A couple of ten-kays in the summer.
Iprice, Shades, I mentioned 1 hour with a consistent pace/HR relationship, as this is what I remember, but I may, of course, be wrong. I do believe though, that the HR does not have to be 70%, but may be 75%. Remember, Hadd gave Joe zone of 70-75%.
When I find time, I'll try to find some Hadd quotes on the subject.
I gave up on the test this week, as it's been wayyy too windy, thanks to Doris. Hopefully next week.
I did a subLT tonight instead, adding a mile (to last week, which was 8 miles in 61 minutes) making 9 miles in 68 minutes. Despite a strong headwind during the first half, making things very difficult, I still managed reasonable splits, slightly positive, but not terribly so. The second half, was sheltered, providing very little wind and, annoyingly, not even a tail wind to compensate me! Overall pace was 7:34/m - just a second slower than last week!
Martyn, that actually was not a scheduled cutback week! Just ended up being a low mileage week, due mainly to half term. Being self employed and my wife with a regular day job, I'm the one who has to take off every school holiday and every time one of the (4) kids is poorly. Additionally, it just works out that the best time to get out for a run is in the evening, once the little ones are tucked away. But if life gets in the way, then evening quickly turns to night. Sometimes, by the time I am free, it is too late or I'm anyway exhausted from another long day... Don't listen to me moaning.
Next race is a Half (Wilmslow) at the end of March. Next up will be the Manchester Half the end of May. I'm sure I'll smash my PB in Wilmslow (1:38, set last September) and I dream of a fantastic race in May. A couple of ten-kays in the summer.
Iprice, Shades, I mentioned 1 hour with a consistent pace/HR relationship, as this is what I remember, but I may, of course, be wrong. I do believe though, that the HR does not have to be 70%, but may be 75%. Remember, Hadd gave Joe zone of 70-75%.
When I find time, I'll try to find some Hadd quotes on the subject.
I gave up on the test this week, as it's been wayyy too windy, thanks to Doris. Hopefully next week.
I did a subLT tonight instead, adding a mile (to last week, which was 8 miles in 61 minutes) making 9 miles in 68 minutes. Despite a strong headwind during the first half, making things very difficult, I still managed reasonable splits, slightly positive, but not terribly so. The second half, was sheltered, providing very little wind and, annoyingly, not even a tail wind to compensate me! Overall pace was 7:34/m - just a second slower than last week!
Martyn, that actually was not a scheduled cutback week! Just ended up being a low mileage week, due mainly to half term. Being self employed and my wife with a regular day job, I'm the one who has to take off every school holiday and every time one of the (4) kids is poorly. Additionally, it just works out that the best time to get out for a run is in the evening, once the little ones are tucked away. But if life gets in the way, then evening quickly turns to night. Sometimes, by the time I am free, it is too late or I'm anyway exhausted from another long day... Don't listen to me moaning.
Next race is a Half (Wilmslow) at the end of March. Next up will be the Manchester Half the end of May. I'm sure I'll smash my PB in Wilmslow (1:38, set last September) and I dream of a fantastic race in May. A couple of ten-kays in the summer.
Iprice, Shades, I mentioned 1 hour with a consistent pace/HR relationship, as this is what I remember, but I may, of course, be wrong. I do believe though, that the HR does not have to be 70%, but may be 75%. Remember, Hadd gave Joe zone of 70-75%.
When I find time, I'll try to find some Hadd quotes on the subject.
I gave up on the test this week, as it's been wayyy too windy, thanks to Doris. Hopefully next week.
I did a subLT tonight instead, adding a mile (to last week, which was 8 miles in 61 minutes) making 9 miles in 68 minutes. Despite a strong headwind during the first half, making things very difficult, I still managed reasonable splits, slightly positive, but not terribly so. The second half, was sheltered, providing very little wind and, annoyingly, not even a tail wind to compensate me! Overall pace was 7:34/m - just a second slower than last week!
Martyn, that actually was not a scheduled cutback week! Just ended up being a low mileage week, due mainly to half term. Being self employed and my wife with a regular day job, I'm the one who has to take off every school holiday and every time one of the (4) kids is poorly. Additionally, it just works out that the best time to get out for a run is in the evening, once the little ones are tucked away. But if life gets in the way, then evening quickly turns to night. Sometimes, by the time I am free, it is too late or I'm anyway exhausted from another long day... Don't listen to me moaning.
Next race is a Half (Wilmslow) at the end of March. Next up will be the Manchester Half the end of May. I'm sure I'll smash my PB in Wilmslow (1:38, set last September) and I dream of a fantastic race in May. A couple of ten-kays in the summer.
Iprice, Shades, I mentioned 1 hour with a consistent pace/HR relationship, as this is what I remember, but I may, of course, be wrong. I do believe though, that the HR does not have to be 70%, but may be 75%. Remember, Hadd gave Joe zone of 70-75%.
When I find time, I'll try to find some Hadd quotes on the subject.
I gave up on the test this week, as it's been wayyy too windy, thanks to Doris. Hopefully next week.
I did a subLT tonight instead, adding a mile (to last week, which was 8 miles in 61 minutes) making 9 miles in 68 minutes. Despite a strong headwind during the first half, making things very difficult, I still managed reasonable splits, slightly positive, but not terribly so. The second half, was sheltered, providing very little wind and, annoyingly, not even a tail wind to compensate me! Overall pace was 7:34/m - just a second slower than last week!
Martyn, that actually was not a scheduled cutback week! Just ended up being a low mileage week, due mainly to half term. Being self employed and my wife with a regular day job, I'm the one who has to take off every school holiday and every time one of the (4) kids is poorly. Additionally, it just works out that the best time to get out for a run is in the evening, once the little ones are tucked away. But if life gets in the way, then evening quickly turns to night. Sometimes, by the time I am free, it is too late or I'm anyway exhausted from another long day... Don't listen to me moaning.
Next race is a Half (Wilmslow) at the end of March. Next up will be the Manchester Half the end of May. I'm sure I'll smash my PB in Wilmslow (1:38, set last September) and I dream of a fantastic race in May. A couple of Ten-kays in the summer.
Iprice, Shades, I mentioned 1 hour with a consistent pace/HR relationship, as this is what I remember, but I may, of course, be wrong. I do believe though, that the HR does not have to be 70%, but may be 75%. Remember, Hadd gave Joe a zone of 70-75%.
When I find time, I'll try to find some Hadd quotes on the subject.