Sub 3 hour London Marathon 2014 VLM

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Comments

  • I think the guiding principle at this stage should be to run according to current fitness level and effort, rather than target time.  On the other hand, if your target is realistic hopefully there won't be too much difference and ultimately, IMO, if you can complete a tempo run which feels hard but manageable (i.e. not a time trial/race effort at the end) it's probably about right anyway.

  • ...having said that, one of the dangers of doing a tempo run which is genuinely quicker than you'd be able to manage in a half marathon (or a marathon if it's an MP run), is that the schedule may involve you progressing by increasing the distance of the run over a few weeks, and at some stage you might feel under pressure to maintain the quicker pace over a longer run, and either bin the session or end up racing it, and not recovering properly for the rest of your training.

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Ill second Phil`s comments above.

    this time last year I was trying to nail my Marathon Paced sessions at 6.48 m/m rather than my current fitness 7m/m and was burning myself out. I know its only 12 seconds a mile but I dropped back to 7m/m for a few weeks and it made a huge difference. I slowly progresses the pace and distance and by then end of the training 6.48 was a lot easier.
  • ToroToro ✭✭✭

    12+2 for me (12 weeks training, 2 taper).  I was on footpod only at London so doesn't count but I recall it being around 27 miles!

  • I prefer to stick to the same paces over the whole schedule. I couldn't run a 2:54 marathon now, but will use the training paces for that.

    I'm hoping that the increasing weekly mileage and length of speedy elements within training runs will extend the time that I can run 6:38mins/mile to 2hours 54minutes.

     

  • Hmm some scary training times being thrown about here! I am doing the P&D 55+miles per week plan but starting the new year as i have portsmouth marathon in a weeks time.

    Problem i have is that i run races a lot faster than i do in training runs - 10k pace is just over 6min miles but training 10ks are nearer 7:30!

    can i account for this in my training? and does everyone else have such a big gap in their race and training paces?

  • You are right about pacing etc Phil. Although I am using planned paces it is actually fairly comfortable as I am guilty of not really training at what I can do but I'm determined to make a good effort this time.
    Wenty I have a gap too (and would be bigger if I actually raced properly) but if it works for you don't get too worked up. I think we all adapt plans/paces as we get to know what works best for us as individuals.

  • Cheers Jeremy, I supposed i am getting a bit worked up as it has worked for me so far, but will it be good enough to get me to the sub 3hr ? I thihnk i need to up my training pace in some of my runs.

    I guess I am just a bit lazy image

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭

    Im the same Wenty. I never get near my racing paces whilst training. 

    Thats why I like to do a couple of races in the build up, just to give me the confidence that i can do it "on the day" 

  • Wenty wrote (see)

    I guess I am just a bit lazy image


    +1 image and like you I have concern about it being good enough which is why I have decided to commit. Mind you most races have been paced to a specific time rather than eyeballs out. That way I can continue to get PB's for a few years!

  • Same here - most races i set my pace to what time i want to acheive and stick to it, then each race set the time a bit quicker (conditions permitting). problem is whist not eyeballs out, it is getting closer everytime and not sure how many more races till i go blind!!! image

     

  • just spotted this thread and looks good, so hello image

     

    I also have a GFA spot and will be trying a sub 3 at london for the first time. Managed 2:57 at Valencia last month but never managed london. Look forward to following everyone's approach and getting a few tips and insights.

  • Looks like you are well set David! 2:57 at Valencia, then you are pretty much there already by the sounds of it - what plan did you use?

  • Hi, I've done quite a few marathons so i think I've worked out what works for me. High mileage doesn't really do it for me, but I try and nail three focused run sessions per week. Monday is intervals. A 75 min run with a set if 5x6 mins thrown in. If I can hit sub 6 miling for those sets then I know I'm probably in sub 3 form.

    I'll do a mara paced 90 mins on Wednesday or Thursday at 6:40 miling. This rarely feels comfortable, but I think it's absolutely necessary to try and do week after week in the lead up. I don't put too much emphasis on long runs, my endurance base is ok after running for quite a long time, I will rarely run beyond 2hrs15 or 18 miles. In the 8 weeks leading upto valencia I think I averaged 35 miles and peaked at around 40

    Hope that helps
  • Yes thats really intersting David as it mirrrors my training schedule (except i need to up my pace image)

    I find quality works better than slogging lots of slow miles out, and more recovery time.

    impressive to nail sub 3hr with such a low mileage per week.

  • Thanks Wenty. The last four weeks of training have been a little sparse with work and xmas stuff, but managed to get out yesterday for a cheeky ten miler which felt good. I think London training has officially started.

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/418281504

     

    Hope you all have a good xmas and manage to sqeeze a few miles/mince pies in !!

     

     

  • 67 min 10 mile training run sounds quite impressive with little training - i think i need to up my game as i normally do a training 10m in 72 min and 67 is race pace for me eek!

    I'm starting to panic! Right VLM training starts this week! Happy Christmas everyone...

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Don't panic. I tried a similar run just before Xmas last year and was dying by the end. 17 weeks later it all came together on race day. Trust the plan. Don't knacker yourself out by the end of January by pushing things too much.
  • Millsy is right, there loads of time yet until london, no need to panic, slowly slowly catchy monkey. build a decent base first then start building your speed around early feb

  • I have a pretty good base as i have been training for portsmouth marathon (but pulled out with grade 1 torn calf muscle, not too bad but could not risk 26 miles on it - plus weather was crap image).

    Plan is easy back with calf muscle and when feels good then up the pace as you say!

    Thanks for the advice people !

  • David having already gone sub 3 we need more tips from you image yes there is plenty of time to london. Normally I would do a 12 week plan but doing 18 so I don't get too lazy over Christmas! Nice steady 20 with the last 2 faster. Might have to use the gym/ treadmill today as weather is really grim here. ( only a recovery run )

  • No problem, happy to help if i can. I've gone sub 3 a couple of times in the last twelve mths, but its taken me quite a bit of trial and error to get there. So if you have any questions, I can at least tell you what worked for me. I'm gunning for 2:55 at london and also toying with trying to get the guinness world record for fastest man to run a marathon dressed as a vegetable! current record is 2:59:33 as a carrot. Chances are i won't get my act together in time, but, the application to guinness has been submitted image

     

  • Fantastic - I love it - A sub 3hr Carrot! - Not sure i can take advice seriously from a Carot! - But saying that perhaps i can from a sub 3hr carrot!

    my plan is basically as follows

    monday - Rest

    Tuesday 5 miles

    Wednesday 8-12 miles pace

    wednesday 6 miles

    Thursday 5 miles intervals

    Friday Rest

    Saturday - 16-22 miles

    sunday - 6-8 miles hills

    Any ideas on this?

  • looks good, but i'd be tempted to bin the tuesday 5miler and either cross train, or rest and throw in a interval session on the monday. Something like 10min warm up then 7x 3min (Z4 heart rate) efforts with 2min gentle jog in between. Gradually build the length of efforts so in the week preceeding london you're running 5x6mins efforts at (ideally) 6:00 pace or faster.

    There are different theories on how fast you should run your long run, but for me it works at 30-90 secs slower than race pace. It feels far too slow, but it should be an aerobic session. Some find running the last third at race pace beneficial, but if you're already doing interval work and mara paced semi long runs midweek, i'd question the logic. I'd also have an easy sunday run as opposed to hills, since your legs may well be tired, and you need to be fresh to get a decent interval workout on the monday.

    The only other thing is practice race day nutrition on your long runs. I don't run long with fluids anymore. I used to run with two 750ml bottles and i was probably over hydrating. Now i know, unless its hot, i really don't need very much. I'll take a fiver in my back pocket just in case, but invariably i never need to buy any. I'll also take powerbar gels every 30mins. Training like this preps me for just grabbing a quick mouthful of fluid at aid stations, and not worrying too much about missing the odd one.

    There you go, a 'war and peace,' bit of feedback image

  • Thanks David.

    I also dont take fluids on long runs and dont find i need them. I will take a gel or 2 if running over 18 miles as thats my limit and after that my pace drops off a cliff!

    I do the sunday hills as a few guys do it so i run with them and find its a good session normally, so dont really want to drop it as i enjoy it as well. I suppose i could drop it for 4-6 weeks and then start it again.

    5x6 at 6:00 pace will be touch as thats a tad quicker than my race pace! eek - might have to scale that back a bit.

    The long run at 60-90sec is quite ok and then i try and pick it up for last 5 miles at MP.

    I like idea of binning a session! Its only there to try and get the mileage up as it seems a bit low!

     

    Thanks

  • Hi, New Years Resolution is to crack 3 hours at Greater Manchester Marathon in April. 13 week plan starts officially on Monday. PB currently 3.08 and with plenty of marathons done it is time to train properly. 

    I aim to get to around 50-60 miles per week and my week is going to look something like this

    Monday am - 7 Steady

    Tuesday pm - 8 Intervals/Hills

    Wednesday pm - 10-12 Steady with a few at Marathon Pace

    Thursday - 7 Intervals

    Friday - Rest/Gym work

    Saturday - 10-12 Tempo

    Sunday - 15-24 Long Steady run (building pace in run)

    Pre race aim is for a 1.23 half marathon at Bath

    Good luck everyone, I look forward to reading how you are all getting on image

    Craig

     

  • REMREM ✭✭✭

    Craig, are you sure about tempo on Saturday and long run on Sunday? You've got the two toughest sessions back to back. 

    Anyway best of luck all and what lovely weather to welcome a new running year in!

    Rob

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    I'd agree with REM. how about moving the tempo to Thursday then you have a day to recover. On sat you could do some easy miles or a parkrun. That way you are not shattered for the Sunday run.
  • I take your point. Thursday are our club interval sessions so I am trying to fit that in. Sunday runs will be slow so hopefully it shouldn't be too bad. I will give it a go for a couple of weeks and see.

    Park runs are good but nearest one is 40 mins away so I will try to do something closer to home.

     

  • REMREM ✭✭✭

    I think Thursday for tempo is spot on. You are training for your race- if your club isn't doing the session you need, do your own! Are none of your club mates doing a spring marathon? I will be forming a breakaway Thursday  tempo at my club, which will irritate some people!

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