Swim training

Ok, so as my knees aren't playing ball, I've switched over to swimming goals.  Read about this Dart 10K swim, which sounds like the one to do.  Start lurking on some swim threads.  That's when the knots in the stomach and the blood draining from my face started.

I'm reading about people doing 20, 000+ metres in the pool each week, which is 4K EVERY time they go image  Now here's my concern; I was thinking more along the lines of 3 swims a week- 2 shorter ones, tempo, drills, etc.  Then a longer one building up to 3 or 4 Km until the lakes open again.  

Comparing them to me, they're going twice as often and doing more than double the distance when they do go.  Am I not doing enough, or are they just going nuts on mileage?  

I really do want to do this, but not so it's all I ever do, as these forums seem to be suggesting.

 

 

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Comments

  • When is the Dart 10k swim, how well do you want to do? complete or have a strong swim.

    If youre an ok swimmer at the moment I see no reason why youd not get by on 3 sessions a week, 2 x 45-60 mins (2-3k) 1x 60-90 mins (3-4k).  Youll probably tire towards the end of the Dart 10k but its quite doable.

    Are the others approaching it with more focus on their goal (or are scared of something?)  20k a week sounds a hell of a lot for someone just looking to complete?

  • Bouncing Barlist wrote (see)

    When is the Dart 10k swim, how well do you want to do? complete or have a strong swim.

    If youre an ok swimmer at the moment I see no reason why youd not get by on 3 sessions a week, 2 x 45-60 mins (2-3k) 1x 60-90 mins (3-4k).  Youll probably tire towards the end of the Dart 10k but its quite doable.

    Are the others approaching it with more focus on their goal (or are scared of something?)  20k a week sounds a hell of a lot for someone just looking to complete?

    I've got a year, since the 2013 one only just happened last weekend.  I would love to finish an hour ahead of everyone, then look down at everyone who eventually crosses the line, whilst tutting and calling them peasants for being so slow- but I'll probably settle for completing image I'm a newbie, so haven't a clue what I'm doing.

    Does a 3 or 4Km long swim sound enough for now until Mayish next year?

    I'm doing my last OW swim this Sunday at Heron lake (assuming they're open).  If anyone's going and would like a nasty end of season (image)  coffee with me, let me know.

  • I suspect 'finishing an hour ahead of everyone' or even mid pack will take at least 20k a week. 

    I can (or could) swim 7 minute 400 meters, 1 hour , 4 mins for 3.8k in open water and im know where near a good swimmer.  If you want to get anywhere near being a good swimmer thats sub 6 minute 400 meters and yes 20k+ a week.  Also depends on how well you adapt to technique and you really need to join a swim club to improve to that level.

    Like a lot of things youll get our what you put in, if you want to complete 10k (say sub 4 hours) then you can get buy on what I suggested in my first post.  I you want to finish nearer 3 hours (or under 3) this will require a lot more work.

    Look at a 10k swim as training for a marathon, in a running sense the people doing 20k+ swimming each week are training for sub 3.30, is that your aspiration in a running sense or do you just want to get round in sub 5 hours (a worthy target for a newbie perhaps).

  • Oh wow, I didn't realise it was going to take so long.  Your 400M swim time is nearly a minute quicker than me.  I assumed from looking at Ironman swims, that a bit over an hour for 3.8K would mean 2.5 - 3 hours for me.  4 to 5 hours seems like a seriously long time to be swimming.

    I'm going to have to sort something out here!

  • faithsdaddy, fear not! I have just completed the dart 10k, and though their timing chip said otherwise I finished in 2;50. My Ironman swim time is 1:06. you will have some assistance from the current, and while I did a fair amount of open water training, I never did more than 3-4 km in a week.

    I'm 44 next week, i run,swim or cycle 3-4 times a week and run distance races mainly. My swim technique needs work.

    You will have a lovely time and I look forward to seeing you riverside next september. Happy to answer any more questions.

     

  • Hey Snap. Why didn't you do a longer longest swim?  It does sound like a wonderful event, which is what attracted me to it in the first place.

    Am I on the right track, building up my long swim to about 4Km over winter?

  • Faiths daddy if you are looking at 2.5 to 3hrs for an IM swim then you would not be getting on your bike afterwards

    Set some intermediate goals rather then jumping straight in at the long swims, get some technique sessions/lessons, check some swimsets or training plans and look at your goal at christmas

    Meldy (the PSOF 400m* swim champion)  image






    *thats quicker than Barlos by the way  image

  • I agree that you probably don''t need to do a swim over about 4k.  Maybe do one 6k swim just for piece of mind but do it open water next spring / summer.

    More important with swimming is trying out all the other aspects

    - Nutrition. Many people struggle to digest food or liquids when face down in the water, so you need to get used to it.  You can do this in the pool over winter so that it is lone less thing to worry about when you get back in ow in the Spring.  For 10k you probably only need a maximum of 1 litre of sports drink, but fnd out which ones suit you.  Use the same ones as you do for running while training in the pool, but look for a lower electrolyte one when you start outside as you don't sweat as much so don't need the salts.

    - Work out what kit you are going to wear.  There are some horrible pictures of chafing on facebook at the moment.  Some people swear by rash vests under your wetsuit, but most long distance swimmers think that they cause more problems than they solve.  Vaseline is essential, or you may prefer to use something more expensive such as Bodyglide or coconut oil.  Some people say that Vaseline rots wetsuits but I know lots of people who use it and not one person has thrown their wetsuit out due to Vaseline damage.  Normally they die for some other reason.

    This is where your long distance training swims are useful.  You can't work out whether you will chafe from a 1 hour ow session.

    That'll probably do for now.  I don't want to swamp you with info.

  • M...eldy wrote (see)

    Faiths daddy if you are looking at 2.5 to 3hrs for an IM swim then you would not be getting on your bike afterwards

    Nooooooooooooooo.  Not that long for an Ironman swim, I meant for the Dart 10K.  I was assuming (based on pure speculation, plus optimism) that I could do an IM swim in an hour-ish. I did a 7:53 800M, done at a very comfortable pace.  Did a kilometre in the pool last week in a bit under 21 minutes.  Thankfully, my swimming's crap enough that I'm making progress all the time.
  • Did, done, did.  My English is the worstlist.

  • Hey Caz- I don't suppose you're still in Guildford?

  • Ahh right .. gotchaimage


    and that'll be a 7.53 400m I suspect?  
    I think Siggy did about 2.30/2.35 so would be interesting to see what his 400m time is for comparison

  • No, 800.  I'm really just that good.  Right, I'm off for a 30 mile run.  Back in a couple of hours.

  • From a couple of peeps I've spoke to, thar dart 10k was about 30mins faster than a lake 10k ... 2:30 as opposed to 3hrs

  • Faithsdaddy wrote (see)

    No, 800.  I'm really just that good.  Right, I'm off for a 30 mile run.  Back in a couple of hours.

     

     

    image

  • Not in Guildford Faithesdaddy, but I drive past that way frequently at weekends

  • Let's just say, conditions were very good. I expected to do under 3 hours and I did. Adding 30 minutes? Hmm, not sure the current was that strong.

    Anyway, reason I didn't do any long swims is time, really. I live in Worthing and most of my training was done on the coast here. There's often quite a strong drift so I practiced by swimming against that current. Meant I was never very far from my start point and I could just get used to being in the water for long periods and this was all without my wetsuit, so I'm used to the cold.

    Luckily I don't ever suffer from chafe, the same way I don't suffer from blisters, and I don't use vaseline or anti-chafe stuff.

    What really gave me confidence prior to the swim was completing a 3.5k river swim race without my wettie. I thought, well if I can do that then anything else should be a breeze.

    I was really nervous before the swim and had the worst race prep ever. Too anxious to sleep more than two hours, I was on my own so I had to drive myself there. Couldn't park because I was late so dumped the car, ran to registration, got into my wetsuit and we were off.

    Got a parking ticket for my trouble.

    Look, I'm no expert, but it sounds like you're in exactly the same boat as I was, so I'd say 'don't worry'. you've loads of time and it's not that complicated.

  • Wild Will, I think that assistance possibly varies between waves.

  • Snap- if you do it next year, give me a shout.  I'll be close to the race in my caravan, so if you'd like to come over for a coffee, etc, before the race, you'll be more than welcome.

  • Sounds good. And I think I spotted a caravan park just down the road, opposite the yacht club. 

  • FD, I'm a reasonably strong swimmer with a reasonable technique.  Dart 10K was my first long distance swim and, like Snap, it was my first this year.  Due to one thing and another I didn't do a huge amount of training (one of my many faults!).  I think I did a couple of open water swims in July and then hit it hard once I returned from holiday in early August swimming Sat, Sun, Mondays and twice on Wednesdays.  It was when Shepperton was open and always a minimum of 3K each time!  I did at least one swim of 6Kin the lake and, due to not actually getting any faster also had a 1:2:1 coaching session.  

    I did Outlaw last year and did a bit more swimming for that if I'm honest.  Outlaw time was 1hr10.  Dart time, by my watch was 2hr25, but official time was 2.35.  

    If you wanted to do it without a wetsuit, you can.  But will need to prove you can do that sort of distance in cold water prior to the event.  Personally I struggle in the cold, however the Dart was 16 degrees at Totnes and fractionally warmer at Dittisham and I didn't feel the cold.

    It's a nice event.  I'd do what you're doing at the moment.  Maintain some swimming fitness over the winter and then train for it in the Spring /Summer in open water by doing 3-4K swims when you do go and that will see you fine!

    For what it's worth the 'winner' completed in 1hr51 this year and there were loads 3hrs+.  The OSS are keen to point out that it isn't a 'race', but to complete it is an achievement in itself!

    Of course you can do it!  Join the OSS on farcebook and register on their website and you should get some prior warning as to when applications open.  You'll have to move fairly quickly when they do because it sells out quickly!

    Believe in yourself and remember, with the current, it's not really a 10K!!  ;)

  • For me it would be about 12k.

  • Any recommendations for a 5K(ish) swim earlier in the year?

  • Dig up the blogs by the swim smooth guy who won the round New York (sorry don't know it's proper name) this year.

    He was doing about 1/4 or 1/3rd of the training volume of his nearest rival IIRR

  • TuckandGo wrote (see)

    Dig up the blogs by the swim smooth guy who won the round New York (sorry don't know it's proper name) this year.

    He was doing about 1/4 or 1/3rd of the training volume of his nearest rival IIRR

    Oh yeah, way ahead of you there.  It's because of him that I started to swim.  I came across his stuff by accident and had a huge hit of intuition- this guy knows his stuff.  I didn't know he was doing less than his rivals though.

    He did a Channel swim a year or two ago as well, which is something I've always wanted to do.... one thing at a time though eh image

  • Faithsdaddy wrote (see)

    Any recommendations for a 5K(ish) swim earlier in the year?

     

    You could do the Marie Curie 5k Swimathon, in March, although it is in a pool? They're taking registrations for pools now, but unless you live in the back end of beyond, it's likely there'll be one nearish you.

  • Thanks Flyaway.  Defo looking for open water though.

  • Faithsdaddy,

    Raw energy Pursuits organise an event in the River Arun each June. In 2012 it was a 3.8km swim only, but they expanded it to include 1.5, 3.8 and 8k swims all on the same day in 2013, all one way down the river. On the day conditions were such that it was all canned except for the 3.8 which was done on a two lap circuit so they could bring the safety crew in a bit closer, but I'd bet money on them trying again in 2014. It would be a good pre-Dart training swim.

    Nice bunch of people, well-run events, a little more competitive than the Dart.

     

  • Flyaway, you reminded me about these guys: http://www.henleyswim.com/

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