Rant about outrageous race prices.

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Comments

  • I don't have a problem with people making a profit -  I have owned run and sold businesses all my life. I do have a problem with exploitation of good natured people.

    Seren nos - if your employer said we will only pay managers now, the rest of you will work fewer hours but must do it for free: how many expletives would your answer contain?

  • Always with respect that's a truly rubbish parallell and it does nothing to advance your arguement. Marshalls are an ad hoc resource who volunteer with the prior knowledge that they do so for their own reasons, no payment is promised and then witheld

  • Road closures, council permits and policing. 

    I've never seen a mile marker or timing system used on an LDWA event.

    I've run plenty of half maras at £15-17 a throw with a t-shirt included. 

    A lot of people look at you as if you are mad for even considering a multi-terrain race. VMLM and the GNR are what most people expect from a race. While they're happy let them pay. 

  • DazTheSlug wrote (see)


    we both know that LDWA/fell races are a lot cheaper, but let's keep that quiet eh? image

     

    Too late, they fill up super fast with runners using them as cheap supported training runs. I think the time has come for a ban on runners doing them or later opening of the checkpoints to cater for the walkers and not the runners. Like pretty much everything commercialism rears it's ugly head and spoils the fun. I have no problem paying a reasonable amount for a race if it is well supported by the organiser, in a decent location and maybe has a charity benefitting it somewhere along the line. I remember arguing with the RD of what is now a popular group of ultras about how expensive they were and he told me that he was hoping to donate any excess to charity like Henk does after Caesars camp. Have no idea if he did or not but the races have gone from strength to strength.


    As far as races 'having' to make money because they are a business concern, well that is just nonsense, no one 'has' to organise races for their living. The organisers can just get another job doing something else, don't justify high entries because you want to get paid for doing your hobby. If you love it as much as you claim then organise in your spare time on a budget to allow more people access, that is how great organisations like the LDWA and TRA brought ultra distance to us.

  • 'Events' v races in my limited experience, the fastest fields are in the smaller cheaper club run races, the events are for entertainment for the vast majority of the participants and if they are willing to pay the money then thats up to them.

  • So by that logic the fastest marathoners will be at the Outer bumfuck marathon rather than the VLM? Course they will......

  • TimR -

    Most LDWA events are not races, and that is one big attraction of them.

    Electronic timing - where it is used -  is no big deal, and does not justify massive race cost increases. 

    That said - the four passes  for example this week is using SportIdent management as do others such as trollers trot. Cannot say whether they use the dibbers. Have been too long out injured. Will see on sat...

    Andrew Smith -

    In answer a couple of those issues,

    The LDWA events have long had different start times for runners and walkers - It is the FRA who have been slow to act on that as regards making the cutoff times less elite, and would benefit from dual starts to put less pressure on marshalls.

    Many LDWA actively welcome runners, rather than tolerate them..

    It is online entry and the forums that in my view have popularized fell events too. Take Edale, used to be easy to get in even entering a month before and a lot us used to do it year on year. Now the entries close almost as soon as they open.

    But certainly fellrunning must not consider jacking up prices to match demand to supply - it should be open to all , not just  those who can afford it.

    GKD

    Are you aware of how  some of the race organisers are salting away on the back of unpaid marshalls? They can afford to pay them, but they don't.

    And whilst on the point of organisers screwing others involved. I bet nobody can guess without looking it up the prize for the first man on the great north run...He might just earn more from the Oxford B marathon (appearance money is how they attract the top elite)

     

     

  • alwyas injured...........if my employer didn't want to pay me then i woulkd find another job if i wasn't happy.....

    how are they salting away from unpaid marshalls.the marshalls volunterr.they are not made to......if they are happy to volunteer why are you so upset on their behalf....image

  • GKD of course the best elites are at the 'name' events but the majority of the field are of a slower pace overall than you get at smaller club and club champs races. 

  • No I don't know and frankly I don't care. Not in the slightest. Couldn't give a toss. 

     If I like a race and it fits into my plans and it's, for me, affordable, I'll run it. If I don't and it isn't I won't. 

     I've said it on here before and I'll probably say it again. I volunteer for as many races as I run every year. I do it because I enjoy it, it gives something back to the sport, I get to see people who I otherwise wouldn't see as often as I like and that, for me, is payment enough.

    It's been said here already, if you don't like a race, or a race organisation then don't give them your money. If enough people feel the same as you do they'll either change their ways or die out.

  • Anyway -  the thread was only tongue in cheek, so from my point of view is now done.

    I for one cannot fathom how some of these non descript marathon length trail races manage to fill up at £40++ where an event like the four passes LDWA 18 miles/ 5,500 feet is still taking entries now, the week before, for the princely sum of £13 including a meal at the end.

    But long may it continue!

    Nor will I ever marshall at a "for profit" event, for free, but that is my opinion.Not asking anyone to agree with it.

     

  • But the LDWA events are self guided, no route markers and you're expected to look after yourself. They're really done on a shoestring. Even the 'finish line' you wander in and the timing person finishes their conversation, has a sip of tea, looks at a clock, that may or not be synchronised with the starter's watch and writes your time on a certificate in hours and rough minutes. 

    Regarding organising a race as a hobby, maybe Chris Brasher would have a different opinion. Imagine receiving all those applications by post and dealing with them in the evening when you got home from work...

  • Route markers are not necessarily a positive for trails, they are a hangover from road running. Navigation is arguably all a part of it, certainly in the lake district. Indeed - the result of reliance on markers is someone in the lakeland 100K  ending up calling mountain rescue because of going off route,to find the emergency phone number was wrong - that is seriously p*ss poor organization - however good the electronic clock.  Someone should have rung the number to check it works. And the lakes 100K cost how  much?

    Price does not translate to organization.

    Big FRA classics manage to deliver good split times for all of the tops for less than a tenner a race. So split timing is not price limited. The LDWA is in the main  a different ethos, where getting round (in most events) matters more than a few seconds on time. 

    Brasher was also heavily involved in both BG and was a prime mover in the instigation of the Paddy Buckley round . Horses and courses.

    And since the thread really was tongue in cheek, that will be my last post on the subject... 

     

     

     

     

  • WiBWiB ✭✭✭

    ai - I think getting on to route marking vs navigation is a different conversation. I don't mind either personally, however, I do tend to favour a marked course so I can turn up to a race and test myself against others simply by running. It reduces the advantage of local knowledge or being able to recce a course thoroughly.

    The example of the UT100k is, I hope, an isolated incident and in their first year there were likely to be problems. Admittedly that is a pretty bad one!

    The conclusion we seem to reaching is that the LDWA/FRA couldn't provide as much as some other races on such a small budget, the races that do provide more cost more, some people make a profit from race organising and some events are stupidly expensive!

    However, everyone is catered for. Whether you want to pay a few quid to run over the hills with a thumb compass drinking from streams or if you want to pay more to jog around a city dressed as a fruit drinking energy drinks every 50m. I don't pay the big fees for novelty races, but I am not bothered if people want to.

    People will tend to vote with their feet, the large majority of ultra races are run by people who genuinly enjoy the sport and make very little, if anything from them. I have volunteered at a number of these events and will continue to do so. It is great fun, I often see friends racing and occasionally bag a free entry.

    Even the LDWA is expensive compared to a fatass race!

  • GKD wrote (see)

    So by that logic the fastest marathoners will be at the Outer bumfuck marathon rather than the VLM? Course they will......

    I presume the above must be one of the fatass races?

  • Always it's a shame you say you'll never marshall  for a 'for profit' organisation, personally when I marshall I do it for the runners on the course and my own sense of duty to the sport, doing it for the RD never enters my mind

  • alwaysinjured wrote (see)

     

    But the seeming creeping commercialism is not a change for the better - a lot of these races are just for profit, and there is no justification.

     

     

    Yes, a lot of races are organised just for profit.  You don't have to do them, though (as I'm sure plenty of other people have pointed out).

    Although a local, for profit, organisation put on a series of five off-road 10k races in Essex this year which were £12 each to enter.  You got it cheaper per race if you entered the whole series in one go.

    I do mostly small local races, and rarely pay more than twenty quid.  Very rarely.  Can't remember the last time!  Local off-road 5k - £2, similar 5 miler, £6.  

    Plenty of races around a bargain prices if you look for them.

  • XX1XX1 ✭✭✭

    Are there any other sports where organised events are expected to be delivered for free or not for profit?  Or is this just something that is peculiar to running?

  • Taxi Driver wrote (see)

    Are there any other sports where organised events are expected to be delivered for free or not for profit?  Or is this just something that is peculiar to running?

    I don't know about sports but it's a pretty common (and not always helpful) attitude in the creative & performing arts: 'if you love your work so much you should be prepared to do it for free!'.

  • I think I had an absolute bargain this year as I happened to be in Delhi for one of the two Half Marathons. For the entry I got 

    - Medical cover

    - the most marshals I have ever seen
    - Water stations with bags of granulated sugar that you could add
    - Medal
    - Tshirt

    - hand written and posted certificate

    - goody bag

    - chip timing

    -  toilets (ok 1 per 1,000 runners)

    All this for 50 rupees, or 47p, yes, £0.47

  • John.was there loads of locals complaining that you would have to work for 5 hours to be able to pay for an entry and it was just a profit making business image

     

  • I wish people would stop saying 'you don't have to do it if you don't like it'

    This completely disregards the fact that events all have an effect on each other. As with anything in life it is never as simple as 'just don't do it!

  • You don't have to read such posts if you don't want to.

  • It certainly seems like most races have a 'common' price. There's not really any real competition is there though? Other than not racing. If you want to do a half two-three weeks before London it's impossible To find a cheap one, let alone get in at late notice. 

  • Races sometimes have additional costs that render the price of the race moot.  For example any British runner who has taken part ion Comrades or Western States has had to pay for a plane ticket.  Does it really matter whether it costs £50 or £100?

    If a race takes place a few miles from your sisters house, then you save the price of a hotel room. 

  • Tiago Hefner 2 wrote (see)

    Centurion offers free entry to those marshalls doing an 8 hour stint, that's as good as being paid. Plus, without wanting to sound trite, marshaling can be an invaluable learning process and a chance for runners to give something back.

     

    Exactly.  I've signed up to volunteer at next year's SDW100.  Sure, there's an element of giving something back to the sport, but it's mostly pure selfishness.  I want to see from the inside how much running a hundred is likely to hurt, before deciding whether it's something I want to try myself.

    If James makes money off my free labour then good luck to him.  Frankly, I've had enough fun at his events (and taken advantage of other volunteers) that I don't give a stuff.

  • WiBWiB ✭✭✭
    Peronel wrote (see)
    Tiago Hefner 2 wrote (see)

    Centurion offers free entry to those marshalls doing an 8 hour stint, that's as good as being paid. Plus, without wanting to sound trite, marshaling can be an invaluable learning process and a chance for runners to give something back.

     

    Exactly.  I've signed up to volunteer at next year's SDW100.  Sure, there's an element of giving something back to the sport, but it's mostly pure selfishness.  I want to see from the inside how much running a hundred is likely to hurt, before deciding whether it's something I want to try myself.

    If James makes money off my free labour then good luck to him.  Frankly, I've had enough fun at his events (and taken advantage of other volunteers) that I don't give a stuff.

    A lot... but still volunteer image

  • alwaysinjured wrote (see)

    Anyway -  the thread was only tongue in cheek, so from my point of view is now done.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    AI, for a tongue in cheek thread you seem to have an awful lot to say about it all , and with that sinking feeling of ' b***** why did I start this '? I reckon.

    ok so your view is that some are overpriced. agree, some are perhaps but as said , you don't have to go, stay away and do the lower cost ones if that keeps you happy!

    personally if its an event I like , with everything I want from it then im willing to pay. some have cost more , some less but each provide something different .

    to say that RDs are 'exploiting good natured people ' is rather a ridiculous thing to say . we are not chimps.we arnt bribed to marshall or volunteer with the promise of a few free gels. We offer to do it knowing what we are there to do, be it for  2 hours or 24. For most of us its a combination of wanting to do it to help out, see runners/friends we know, gain experience ,enjoy being in an atmosphere/community we like . The RD gets his help/volunteers and in turn there maybe , as Tiago mentioned, the free place offer. Everyones happy. simple.

     

     

     

    AndrewSmith wrote (see)

    I wish people would stop saying 'you don't have to do it if you don't like it'

    This completely disregards the fact that events all have an effect on each other. As with anything in life it is never as simple as 'just don't do it!

    well , actually it is image

  • AndrewSmith wrote (see)

    I wish people would stop saying 'you don't have to do it if you don't like it'

    This completely disregards the fact that events all have an effect on each other. As with anything in life it is never as simple as 'just don't do it!

    I agree with Loulabel.  There are plenty of races you can do without having to pay huge entry fees.  

    Why pay £35 for a half marathon, when there are many you can enter for half that price? 

    We all have choices, there are many, many races available at a variety of prices.  Choose those that fit your training, your location and your budget.

    I've raced at least once a month each month this year, not paying more than £20 for any of them.  

    The most expensive one was £17.  That was a club-organised road half marathon (Paddock Wood), with plenty of marshals, secure baggage store, the largest number of portaloos I've ever seen at race and a medal and goody bag.

    Go for events like that, rather than expensive ones which are only interested in making money, you get far better value and a far better event.

  • Same as Willkie, some of the nicest events I've done have been close to home ,and had everything . Local 10k usually around Halloween has amazing food , bags etc looked after in village hall by the people helping out/ catering , brilliant goody bag , facilities in village hall ,lovely route , hot choc at the end and Halloween costume worn by marshals with pumpkin mile Markers! all for abt 12 quid
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