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Madrid Marathon
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Not surprised your race has gone down in local folklore or that you are tired today, guess you'll rest up for a few days now before moving to "official" marathon training. Definitely think you should follow a structured plan. Do you have any in mind?
Going ok thanks. Been ticking over during Christmas with Middle Slow / Steady runs. Did 17k this morning in 1:29:50. Felt very heavy after the Christmas excess, despite trying to moderate my intake. Back to Madrid tomorrow and onto
the official mara training plan wef 6th Jan.
Next race, probably a very hilly half in late February followed by the Madrid half early April. May try and squeeze in a 10k if I can get the LSR done midweek but don't want to take too much time out of the marathon programme.
When's the Newport half? Take care with all this heavy rain you're having down your way. Hope you are either on highish ground or safely away from any rivers.
I've finally sorted out flights and a hotel for Madrid
That's one thing off the list at least. Really looking forward to it as I've never been to Madrid before, and running a marathon is usually a great way to see round a city for the first time.
@isabelabos - have you made your choice yet? Paris is on my list to do sometime as well. It must be a difficult choice to make!
@Grumpydirtbag - I'm flying from Edinburgh so didn't have a lot of choice travel-wise. Only Easyjet flies to Madrid direct, so that's who I've booked with. I've booked a hotel about 1km from the start line so I can stagger along there without having to rely on public transport.
@Bob - good luck with the 10k tomorrow
Hi Neil, March 2nd for Newport - have set myself a target of 1:50. Going to follow the FIRST 3 day plan adding in two extra days of mid distance easy runs instead of cross training.
My next scheduled race is the La Latina Half marathon on the 23rd February. It's got a reputation for being a tough race and the second half is very hilly.
Thanks for that advice Neil. I'll see how it goes and may get the bike out if necessary. Will also look for the book. I was a bit worried that it looked a little low on weekly mileage. I am lucky that being retired I have plenty of time to space the runs out to best allow recovery. Mind you I am still basking in the euphoria of one good performance and have no doubt that there will be plenty of low points to come along the way. That's when the real test will come! Have a good start to the year, will call for help if ( when) needed!
Wow that sounds like an incredible race. More a "survival of the fittest" than a normal 10k. Well done for finishing it at all, let along in 52 minutes! To be honest, I'm impressed you even started the thing
Hi Bob, hope you've come out of your epic 10k ok and are now into your training plan for Madrid.
Nothe, how did the Goofy challenge go? What a fantastic base to begin your preparation for Madrid.
I got in touch with the organisers of Madrid to ask about what they give at the fuelling stations, as I want to be using the same brands for my long slow runs to make sure it agrees with me. Anyway, this is what they told me:
Isotonic drink - Powerade, all flavours, at Km 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40 and finish line.
Gels - Powergel (Make Powerbar) at 32.5km
Fruit at 22.5km and finish.
I must admit that I'd much rather get through the race on water and isotonic drinks and I'm loathe to use gels and have never done so before. However, everything I've read suggests I should use them, especially as it will be my first marathon. I think I'll carry my own in the race.
Hi Neil - week one completed without too much difficulty - somehow I dont think its all going to be so smooth! Biggest problem I'm finding is running slowly on the LSR. At least with the FIRST plan I can do 9.30 a mile. Many of the others would have me running at 10.30-11.00 a mile. Was going well on my long run when at about 5 miles in another runner came alongside me and we got chatting. Unfortunately he was running at 8.30 pace and so I ended up doing 11 miles at planned pace but had a 4 mile section at tempo! Will just let anyone pass me by in future!
As for feeding I am going to try jelly babies and see how they work.
Have a good week.
Hi Neil. Hope you have had a good week. Have you tried any gels yet? I have read that they don't taste very nice and that's what has put me off. However, as you say it is recommended to use them so maybe I'll try some.
With the FIRST plan what do you consider to be short, mid and long tempo. I was wondering about 5 miles. Is it short or mid? And what about 8 miles - mid or long? Have managed the three sessions as suggested plus a couple of easy 5-8 milers. However, I take your point about the programme being quite challenging and I think the bike will be coming out to supplement the plan when the mileage steps up.
Nothe - are you back? How did it go?
Hi Guys. I'm back in the country and missing the weather already. Going for a run in the warm and dry was wonderful
The Disney races were fantastic! Brilliantly organised, great courses and lots of friendly people made for a great event. I'm already planning to go back, but the cost of getting there means it'll have to wait until 2017.
My training must be going well as the multi-day running didn't take as much out of me as I thought it would. I was taking it easy during the 5k, 10k and half-marathon to make sure I'd have enough left for the marathon, but even so I felt the best I'd ever felt during the marathon after the initial aches in my legs loosened off. I managed 4:00:22 for the marathon which is great but also frustrating as if I'd known I was so close to my PB I'd have pushed a little to make sure I beat it.
Roll on Madrid
On the subject of gels I definitely use them during marathons. I've tried most makes and have settled on High 5 EnergyGel for the first 16ish miles, then SIS Go Isotonic Gel for the last 10ish miles. That's purely down to taste - the High 5 gels are really sweet and though they taste nice I can't cope with them after running for a couple of hours. The SIS gels are a lot less sweet but don't taste as good so I keep them for when my taste buds are shot!
Best thing to do though is try a few different types and see if there are any you like, plus make sure they don't give you "issues" during your long runs
Wow! That's a fantastic achievement, well done! How far off your PB were you? Was it a flat course? Are you hoping for a PB in Madrid? It's difficult to know really isn't it with the unknown of the course and ultimately I think it boils down to how you feel on the day. In theory, with the training done, it should be possible to predict fairly accurately - but it doesn't really work like that does it? I started off hoping to beat 4.30, currently I have ambitions of breaking 4 hours. I expect I will end up somewhere in between and should be very happy with that really. Dont think I'll be any the wiser after my HM and 20 mile races coming up - its the last 6 miles that can determine the difference between a 3:50 and a 4:40.
Thanks
I was 2 minutes off my PB...close but no cigar! Hopefully that means I'll be able to PB at Madrid with a bit of extra training effort.
Your HM and 20 milers should give you a good idea, especially the 20 miler. When I set my PB I did a 20 mile race 3 weeks before the marathon and it showed me the pace to run at and when to take gels. But as you say, it depends how you feel on the day as well as all the planning!
Nothe, just to echo what Bob already wrote, that's a fantastic achievment. To be 2 minutes of your PB on the back of the other races is a bloody good effort and I'm impressed. You've got a hell of a base for Madrid now.
Bob, I think your prep races will give you some inclination but I think you are right about what can happen when you go into unknown territory in the last six miles. I've heard and read some horror stories but on the other hand my cousin has only had serious issues in one of the five marathons he's run.
I know what you mean about running slowly on the LSR. I'm also finding the intervals tough going but for the opposite reason! Did two recovery runs in addition to the three key sessions in Week 1 but more due to circumstance / location rather than a conscious decision. This week (2) I've done one cross-train on the exercise bike and a short, slow run as well as the key sessions, the last of which will be the LSR (24km) tomorrow.
Might try a gel tomorrow, although never have done before for a run of this distance. I'm definitely a bit reluctant to use them but guess I'd better experiment. Bought a camelbak last weekend and going to run with it tomorrow with a powerade / water mix as that's what's on offer in the marathon.
Anyway, re the tempo times, it's basically dictated by the training plan, but to give you an idea, 3 to 5k is at short tempo, 6.5k mid tempo, 8k can be at mid or long tempo or marathon pace depending on the week, 10k at long tempo and 13k to 16k at marathon pace, while the 5k tempo in the last week of the plan is at mid tempo pace. Hope this helps and let me know if you want any more info re timings.
Thanks Neil, Think I was looking at a different version of the plan and have now found the one you are following (very similar though). Have also tracked the book down. Do you think it is worth investing in considering I have the plan? Is it a good read?
Bit of a problem on the Jelly Baby front. I have eaten a box full but only 6 whilst actually running!
Sounds like you'll have to hand over the jelly babies to Mrs Benjamin for her to ration out on the day of your LSR.
By the way, where will you be staying while you are here?
Staying at the Ayre Gran Hotel Colón near Retiro.
The jelly babies would be gone forever if I followed that plan.
The speed work is quite tough but it actually makes the LSR the easiest part of the week and something to look forward to!
Tried a new long run route yesterday as I want to get more hills in and, gee, was it tough. 24k in just under 2hrs7min in the rain! How did you get on this weekend?
Fairly similar, a hilly Hereford Half Marathon route in 1:59. Only problem is that it was too quick! 9.06 per mile instead of the 9.30 intended. Really struggling to slow it down when it feels comfortable. Will really have to rein it in when I jump up to 15 miles this week.
How's it going Neil, Nothe?
Did my 15 mile run yesterday and tried really hard to slow it down. I managed to get it to 9.39 per mile overall which wasnt too far off the planned 9.52. Quite tired by the end but could have gone on and felt I could have upped the pace at any time throughout. Feel ok today, left knee a little sore. Might go out on the bike later.
Got a newsletter from Madrid organisers yesterday which has increased the anticipation a bit more. Still seems a long way off, but it will be upon us very quickly I'm sure. Got confirmation of my Newport Half entry which was a relief as it has sold out. Really looking forward to that as it should give me a good indication of where I'm at.
Well done Bob, sounds like a good session yesterday. And not feeling sore the next day is a good sign!
I confess I've been really lazy since the Disney races. Today was my first training run since all the madness so was taking it nice and easy. It wasn't raining either, which is always a bonus in Edinburgh
The newsletter was a helpful reminder that I need to start training! I like the bit about them flattening the course out too! Plus there's mention of a free pasta party which I didn't know about. I'll have to have a look into that.
Well done getting into the Newport Half. I looked at that one as well but decided it was too far to travel. It's faster for me to get to Madrid than it is to Newport! I've signed up for a 10k in St Andrews 2 weeks before Madrid to give me a bit of a "speed" session (or what I pretend is speed!). I've also (blush) signed up for a marathon at the end of March as a training run for the Madrid marathon. I decided I couldn't be bothered doing a 22 mile training run on my own in March, so went for a small local marathon instead. Dunno what I was thinking!
I think that makes good sense Nothe. Running a training marathon in the company of all those runners will probably be easier than a 22 miler by yourself. Have been trying to research the course changes on various Spanish sites. From what I can gather, the general feeling among the Madrilenos is that the changes arent considerable in terms of the overall total climb. There is still a 100m climb from 33k to 40.5 but one punishing very steep hill has been taken out. Still we'll find out soon enough!
We will. And I'm sure it'll be great no matter what they've done to the course
If they could organise some nice weather to go along with it that would be great. Not too hot, but definitely warm with no rain!
It's going ok thanks Bob, although a little busy at present.
Interesting to read you'd both received a newsletter as I've had nothing. Think I might get my registration checked, although it was confirmed back in October and the money was debited from my account.
You might have seen this already but the link below shows both the old and new routes. In terms of making it less hilly the biggest changes are in Casa de Campo around the 28 / 29k mark (where I've been doing some of my long runs). That section they've cut was uphill, getting steeper all the way. Also, the last part of the old route had two steep hills and these have been eliminated. I've done them in shorter races here and they were no fun at the backend of a 10k or half-marathon so I think it's for the better. Of the new route, Km0 to Km5 is gradual incline getting steeper as it goes and just after Km 20 to 21 is a definite climb as is the bit after the lake in Casa de Campo and the short stretch just before Km 34. Not very familiar with the city from 35k to 37k but will do a scouting mission in the next few weeks and report back. Think it's gradual uphill.
http://rnr-spain.compgroup.netdna-cdn.com/files/2014/01/recorrido_madrid_2014+old.pdf
Training going well, although a few aches and pains this week. Got my first ever 20 miler scheduled for Sunday. You seem to be going well Bob. Nothe, not surprised you've been taking a bit of time out to recover after your recent exertions. Another marathon, eh? Your capacity for endurance is impressive. Not quite a marathon, but I'm going to enter a 30k race five weeks before Madrid. My plan is to run it at the pace laid down in my training plan and definitely not race it. With the warm up and cool down, it'll complete one of the 20 mile long runs. I'm hoping the weather will be slightly chilly like last year, sorry!
Thanks Neil. Having a fair idea of the course has allowed me to devise a plan. Up to 4 miles 9.10 per mile. 4miles to 20 miles @ 8.50 per mile. This would get me to 20 in 3 hours. I then have an hour to complete the dastardly last 6 miles. A cunning plan eh? I wonder how different it will be in reality!
I'm aiming to start out slowly for the first couple of miles till my legs starting working properly then aim for 8:45ish for the rest of the race. I'm finding that even trying to maintain an even pace after 20 miles is an all-out effort - there's no way I'll be increasing speed at that point!
The thing that caught me out in the Disney marathon was running too far i.e. not take the most efficient way round corners. My watch was happily telling me I was doing a good pace, but I ended up running an extra half mile or so which makes all the difference for getting the time you want. I'll be trying hard to run just 26.2 miles in Madrid!
Good luck with your 20 miler on Sunday Neil
Thanks Nothe, hopefully it'll go ok.
Being my first marathon, I'm a bit coy about pacing strategies as I don't want to sound ridiculously naive. I guess I'm going to try and start slightly slower than my goal pace and build up and try and hold it for as long as posible.
It's a good point you make about running the most efficient route. I remember when I did the half on marathon day last year there was a blue line all the way round which I took to mean the direct route and tried to follow it as much as posible. I was running in the Retiro Park a couple of weeks ago and noticed that it was still there,at least on the last km of the course. Hopefully they'll do it again this year and you'll be able to pick it up as the runners begin to spread out.
By the way, how many gels do you usually take in a marathon and at what stages?
Hope both you and Bob get some good running in this weekend.
Thanks Neil. I did a parkrun this morning, and aiming to have a run of some length tomorrow if the weather improves. We're currently enjoying high winds and heavy rain so something better than that would be nice!
Don't worry about sounding naive - there's no such thing! We're all different and we've all done different training so what works for one person won't necessarily work for another. I've done many things (pace, shoes, gels, food, drink!) that really didn't work for me so far so I'm still working out what to do. I bet I'll be trying to work out what's best for the rest of my life!
The blue line sounds great
I'll have a look out for that and try to stick with it if it's there.
Gels is something you need to try on your long runs and see what works for you. You might not need any, or you might need a lot more than I can cope with. I usually aim for 1 an hour so around 7, 14 and 21 miles roughly. I'm always changing this though as having them at the wrong point makes me feel sick.
Ultimately it's about trying it all out and finding what works for you. I've read things that say "take 1 gel every half hour". Tried that....total disaster. I've tried taking no gels and no sports drink....bit of a disaster (hello Wall at 16 miles!). I've tried eating while running - no idea why I thought that would work since I can't even eat *before* running. The end result of that experiment wasn't fun!
Give it a try and see how you feel
Good afternoon gentlemen. As per my plan I did 17 miles this morning. It was supposed to be at 9.57 but even though I made a conscious effort av. pace was 9.41. The gel issue is quite pertinent to what happened. Last week I took an energy bar, which I consumed happily at 5 miles, jelly babies (couple every mile) and water. Didnt really feel fatigued at all (15 miles, same pace) This week I only took water because I read somewhere that it is best to allow the body to get used to converting fat to energy once your natural supplies are spent. By 17 miles today I was out on my feet. Why? It could be because I didnt refuel, it could also be the extra 2 miles and getting close to that danger point. Also it was an extremely hilly route -elevation gained was well over the total for the whole of the Madrid Marathon. I suspect it was a combination of all three. Think next week I'll take some supplies and see if it makes a big difference. Sounds pretty similar to your experience Nothe with regard to wall hitting. Do you use the gels mixed in water or do you take them and then drink water?
Evening gents,
Sounds like a good effort Bob and I really hear what you are saying about the pacing. It's very interesting to read about your gel / non-gel experiments too. As you say, there may also be other factors, for example, diet yesterday, sleep etc as well as the points you mention above. Will be interesting to see how you get on next week.
I did my first ever twenty miler today in just under the suggested training time. There was a long, gradual climb midway and then a couple of steep hills in the closing kilometres which were really hard. After that, I finished ok and felt I could've gone on, which is obviously a good sign. However, I was also very happy to stop at 20 miles. As well as having a powerade / water mix in the camelbak, I took two gels today, one after 9km and another after 18km. I was going to write that the jury's still out as to what effect they had but Bob's post makes me feel they helped. Might try a long run without gels one Sunday but, on the other hand, I want to get as many of them done as trouble free as posible. We'll see.
Did the weather improve enough for you to get out Nothe? Thanks for the input on gels. Eating while running is another interesting one as they're going to be giving out fruit at one of the fuel points in the second half of the race. Was thinking of experimenting with half a banana next Sunday!
Have a good week guys.