Madrid Marathon

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  • Yes Neil, it was a lovely day here today and I did 18 miles (2.52 @ 9.36 per mile). Felt good and have overcome any concerns about the distance now. Only problem I'm having is with this burning feet/blisters issue. Must try your ice bottle idea. I have been putting surgical spirit on my feet as this hardens them apparently. However, others advise softening them! Taping is another option which I might try.

     

    Yes I am definitely going to taper for Newport. Might do another longish run later this week (12-15 miles) as well as the planned 800's and tempo run, then take it quite easy next week and have a real go at the half to see just where I am. If I can get close to 1:50 then I know that sub 4 might be on in Madrid. Your plan for the week sounds about right. What sort of time are you looking for? Is it a fast course? 

     

    Dizziness not been so noticeable this weekend

  • Nothe, good luck with the intervals and let us know how they go. One thing, they always say not to do hard sessions on back to back, i.e intervals one day, long run the next, so take care.

    Bob, do try the ice bottle treatment. It worked really well for me. 15 minutes of rolling each foot, a couple of times a day. I think it's a good move to taper, with the recovery after the race it'll mean missing about a week of the plan but I think that's ok. The course is fast for about the first 8km and then is mainly uphill for the rest of the race, so quite hard and the key is not to go too hard early on as you'll pay for it later. Not sure about times, but the plan is to give it a good go and see how it goes. If it's not looking good then I'll slow down to training pace but hopefully I can run a good race. Glad the dizziness has been better this weekend.

  • Two bottles in the freezer now! (water)

  • Ah yeah, thanks for the reminder Neil. I'd better try Tuesday as intervals then.

  • Another week completed unscathed (41.5 miles best so far). Intervals were a challenge but went really well on the tempo run giving me good confidence for next weeks half. Foot issues are hopefully resolved. Did some bottle rolling Neil and also seem to have broken new shoes in now. Have also reverted to no socks the preferred option from my halcyon days. 

    Good luck for Sunday Neil. €13 is a bargain. Newport is £24 and that is about the going rate for the UK now. How much of the race is in Casa de Campo? Last 8k looks a test.

    How did the intervals go Nothe. They really are worth doing. With all the long slow efforts it is a nice change to get some speed going. I've really noticed the benefit when doing my tempo runs and am having to hold back a bit. I'm hoping they will really prove of benefit when I do the half. How is your other half going with her training? Are you running together at all? I quite like running alone but it really does help the long runs move along nicely when chatting. I have thought of joining the local club but I like running during the day.

  • Thanks Bob. Yes, the second half of the race is going to be tough. Apparently there's also a difficult climb at around the 8 or 9k point. Need to get the pacing right early on, not too slow, but definitely not too fast either. More or less the middle third of the race, possibly a bit less, is in Casa de Campo, the only part of the route I'm familiar with. The rest of the race goes out and back to Aluche, a suburb in the south west of the city, somewhere I worked for 6 months about 8 years ago but haven't been back since.



    Glad the feet are better and that the tempo went well. I know what you mean about controlling the pace, especially on the mid and long tempos. I tend to do the first km far too quickly and then worry about slowing down too much. By the way, how did the no socks thing come about? What running shoes do you use?



    Nothe, agree with Bob about the benefit of intervals, though I really hate them! Did you give them a try? Also, as again Bob says, how's your wife's training for the half going?
  • Hi Neil. Never used to wear socks, then when I took up regular running again last year I started wearing them. I bought a pair of Asics Nimbus 13 a year ago (I am a neutral/under pronator landing on the outside of the forefoot). They were really comfortable. By November they were almost worn but I couldnt find another pair and had to get Nimbus 14. For some reason they were nowhere near as good. A fortnight ago I managed to find another pair of Nimbus 13. However, they did cause the foot problems (probably running too far before breaking them in). Tried various remedies to overcome the discomfort, one of which was to go back to wearing no socks. Something has worked so I'll just stick with it now.

  • Interesting what you say about the Asics. I wear Brooks Glycerin and prefer their no 10 model to the current no 11 and am trying to get a pair of the former.



    Hope the non sock wearing goes well, just as long you don't tell me somewhere down the line that you are going to do the race barefoot, Bekele style!
  • Had crossed my mind! Dont know why they cant just stick with a model - well yes I do actually!

  • Congratulations Neil! Found your result online. That's a super time on what must have been quite a testing course. You must be very pleased. How did you feel? Were you comfortable or did you give it everything you had?

  • Cheers Bob! Was just about to post when I saw your message.

    Yep, a half marathon PB of 1:34:01 (chip time), well pleased with that, although 2 seconds quicker to break 1:34 would have been nice but it's 3mins 03seconds better than my previous PB at the distance, so I'm very happy.

    The first half of the course was faster than I had imagined and, depsite not trying to push it, I was going quicker than planned. However, I felt comfortable at the pace and got to 10k in 43:45, I think it was. The second half of the course was hard, especially around the 16 & 17k mark, which was gruelling. Felt ok aerobically in the closing kms but my legs were really heavy and I couldn't get them to go any faster. The race ended in a local athletics stadium, with the last 200 metres on the track, the first time I'd ever ran on one! It was a really good race and well-organised, one for the calendar in future years. I have to say, I really like the half marathon distance.

    How about you? Did you do a long run today? What kind of taper are you going to do for Newport  next weekend?

  • Sounds like a really good run. Well done again! 

    Did my 2x (6x800) today. Might do an easy 10-12 miles tomorrow then tempo run on Weds. Apart from a couple of looseners that will be it then until Sunday. I will do my next long run (might try a 22 miler) the Wednesday after Newport and then have the Gloucester 20 mile race on 16th March. That will be 4 20+ runs and will do one more before Madrid. Realised that I have 3 racing Sundays in the next 9.

    Hope you have a celebratory beer and meal tonight. You deserve it!

  • Hi Guys, sorry for the long gap in replying. Time flies!

    I didn't manage any intervals back at the start of the week. I felt awful that day so only did a gentle run. I'll give it a shot this Tuesday though. 3 miles warm up then 3 x 1 miles I think. Something like that anyway.

    Did a 15 mile long run yesterday which ended in me being rescued! Strong winds, driving rain and freezing temperatures ended up with my arms, legs and finally chest getting seriously cold. When my chest started to go I realised I was in trouble so called for backup. I live in the middle of nowhere so if anything goes wrong there's nowhere I can hide, so can be a bit risky in winter. No harm done in the end (hopefully).

    My wife is joining me whenever I'm running in the evenings, which is nice. Usually that's either Tuesday or Thursday, plus we do a parkrun every Saturday and sometimes a few miles afterwards to build up distance too. I'll need to drag her out on some longer runs too soon so the half marathon isn't too much of a shock to the system. I like both running alone, and running with others - anything that mixes it up stops the training getting repetitive.

    Brilliant half mara PB Neil. I wish I could run that fast! What's your time goal for Madrid? Your PB suggests sub 3:30 should be on the cards image

  • Thanks again Bob. Hopefully I can be the one giving the congratulations next Sunday. Had a couple of beers and a nice lunch before posting earlier, thanks. Going to have a steaming hot bath in a bit and then get some ice on the thighs and then scoff the leftovers from lunch! 

    That sounds like a tough interval session today. Have you heard of Yasso 800s? Basically you build up week by week to 10 x 800m reps and, apparently, the average rep is an uncanny indicator of what your marathon time is going to be. Your taper plan makes sense. Also the three races before Madrid will help to sharpen you up nicely. Apart from that, it's really good to get out race from time to time just for the hell of it.

    By the way, found myself on a bus going through some of the latter stages of the marathon route yesterday. Kms 35 to 37 aren't going to be much fun!

  • Sounds a bit horrific Nothe!

     

    Sorry Neil I meant 2 x  6x400

  • Crikey Nothe, that doesn't sound good at all. Take care on those runs mate.

    Thanks for the congratulations. Sub 3:30 would be fantastic but having never run the distance before, I'm bit sheepish about stating that as my goal. Might be a bit more confident re race time predicitons after my 30k race on the 23rd March. Didn't like what I saw of the course yesterday from Km 35 to 37 yesterday. Not Mount Everest but a bit of a slog at that stage of the race.

  • Hi guys,



    Best of luck in the Newport Half tomorrow Bob. Hope you get more benign weather conditions than you did for your last race. How's the mini taper gone these last few days? I had a look at the course map and it seems a nice route alongside the river.



    Had a couple of days rest after my race last weekend, just a couple of cross-trains on the bike and a massage the day after the race. Got back on the training program Thursday and ran a really strong short tempo. 29k long run tomorrow.



    Ok, go well tomorrow and enjoy the race.
  • Thanks Neil. Tapered as planned, did a really good tempo session on Wednesday and was full of confidence. However, for no reason, that is subsiding as tomorrow approaches! I think its not running that does it, all sorts of negative thoughts and imaginary niggles go through the mind. Added to which the forecast is for strong wind Sunday a.m.! So thoughts of 1:50 have eased out to 1:59. I expect these are the sort of feelings that will occur in the last week of April, so its good race preparation in that sense. Think I'll go for a little 3-4 mile jog in a while just to make sure I can still put one foot in front of the other!  I have always been a big believer in the importance of confidence in any sporting success or failure. All will be well on the day and whatever I do at least I'll know where I'm at.

    Enjoy your long run. I'm actually looking forward to getting back to the programme without the distraction of races! Thing is I know I can plod away for 3+ hours quite happily. Its the unknown that's scary!

  • Sounds very much like pre-race nerves to me Bob, which isn't a bad thing, just as long as you manage them. As you say, I guess these feelings will be with us in late April so it's definitely good to get used to them. Don't overdo it with the jog today. Shame about the weather. Hope it doesn't affect you too much tomorrow.



    I think these races are good to do from time to time. It's a good measure of how you are progressing and just good fun to do. A few days off plan doesn't hurt as long as it's just that and may be partly offset by the gains you make in the race?



    Look forward to reading about how you get on tomorrow. All the best!
  • Hi Neil, 1:51:03 was a good outcome for me. Ran fairly even paced all the way averaging 8.27 per mile. I had it in my mind that sub 8:30 would break 1:50. think I forgot the final .1 of a mile! Never mind, I was okay at the finish and did a strong mile 12 after a bit of a dip at mile 11 (8.38 slowest mile by far). Really felt it by the time I got home as I'd got cold walking back to the car and then had to drive back to Hereford and stiffened up badly.

    So, pleased but still not really any the wiser. Should give me a chance of doing 20 miles at 9.00 min miles in two weeks. Back to the plan this week then.

    How did your long run go? Are you feeling any effects from last Sundays effort?

  • Well done Bob, that's a good effort, especially keeping a fairly even pace all the way round. Shame about being out with your calculations but very good signs with the strong 12th mile and feeling ok at the finish. Don't be frightened of taking a few easy days before getting back into the plan, won't do you any harm to rest up a bit after today's effort. I'm with you about needing a longer race to really get a feel for where you are with regards to the marathon. More and more I see the 30k race I'm doing in three weeks as a bit of a dress rehearsal for the real thing.

    My long run was hard today, probably my most difficult one to date. Last Sunday and then Thursday's hard tempo effort might have played a role, but I didn't prepare well yesterday in terms of diet. I also didn't take any gels today. I must admit I had a bit of an energy drop from about the 22 / 23k point and things got hard, especially as I was running into a headwind for most of this time. Really had to grind out the last few kms and, unlike other long runs, felt that I wouldn't have been able to complete the full distance. One of those days I suppose. As you've probably noticed, the paces for the long runs are beginning to get quicker now so I suppose that might've been a factor too.

    Well done again for today.

  • Thanks Neil. Had time to reflect now and am happy with what I did today. What I achieved was probably harder than anything I've got to do on the plan in terms of sustained pace and coped well with it. Key for me really is 20 miles in 3 hours because I could even do the last 6 miles at 12 min. mile pace and I'd come in under 4:15.

    I will take note of your comments re recovery from todays effort. Was going to do my next 20 miler on Weds. but will probably give it tull Thurs or Fri. Didn't you take anything with you today? How close to your proposed marathon pace do you get in the plan? Mine is 9:07 per mile for a 20 mile although I am going to attempt 9:00 at the Gloucester 20 (if successful thats the pace I will go for in Madrid). See you had quite a bit of rain today. Watched the Atletico/ Real game. A great gamewas let down by all the play-acting. Have a good week.

    How are things Nothe? Are you on target. Just think 8 weeks today and..!

  • Good you see it that way now Bob. Easy to lose perspective sometimes, especially straight after a race. Definitely take it easy for a few days now, easy runs, cross train etc.



    I took gels with me but decided not to use them but was drinking a powerade / water mix. The closest I get to marathon pace on the long runs is MP + 9 secs per km (+15 secs per mile).



    Didn't really get to see the match but was following it on the internet. Gutted that Real got a late equaliser.



    Have a good week yourself.
  • Well done Bob that's a great effort image Did you have a GPS with you and did you run 13.1 miles, or further? Sounds like you should swap in some recovery runs at this point and get your legs back in working order before pushing on again.

    Neil - well done on finishing your long run. I think the hard runs are what make the difference sometimes. Knowing that no matter what happens you can push on and finish the distance really helps in the last 6 miles of the marathon.

    I had a gentle rest week last week: two 6 milers, a parkrun and an 8 miler. One of the 6 milers was an eye-opener though. It's 2.5 miles on the flat followed by 3.5 miles uphill, some of which is *very* uphill. I usual smash myself on the flat doing tempo or partial intervals, then struggle my way up the hills. I felt awful when I started on this run though, so ran at 8 min/mile and took it easy. When I reached the hills I found I could fly up them no problem, and ended up with a 2 minute PB for the route. Weird, but obvious when I think about it. I guess the upshot is I need to be much more careful pacing my long runs when they come!

    This week is a bit more involved - at least three 6 milers, a parkrun and an 18 miler to round the week off. It should show me how I'm doing at least image

    8 weeks to go? Eeek!

    Good luck with the 20 miler Bob.

     

  • Hi Nothe,



    Yeah, I think yesterday's run was quite good mental preparation!



    Sounds like you learnt a valuable lesson with the pacing and the hills the other day. It'll stand you in good stead in Madrid. Sounds like you've got a good week's training planned. Hope it all goes well.
  • Hi Nothe, good to hear you are on target and steering clear of injury. What pace will you do your 18 miler and do you have any idea what pace you are going to attempt the marathon?

    Did have GPS. Ran 13.14 according to that. The 0.14 took just over a minute so it was  that which caused me to miss out on sub 1:50. I think when I worked it out I based it on 13 miles and thought 'the last little bit I can go flat out to make up the time'. Of course by then it is too late! Should have factored it in earlier and made up that minute. Still quite happy with the run and how I felt throughout. Yes, hills are tough when you have been running at high tempo.

  • Thanks guys.

    I'm aiming to do the 18 miler around 8:30min/mile pace I think. There are a few hills in the route I'm going to it'll be a good tester to see where I am, plus I'll be trying out my gel strategy again using SIS gels. Aiming to have one at 7 miles and 14 miles and see how that feels. I've only used SIS a couple of times but I think I prefer them now. They aren't as horrendously sweet as other makes which suits me.

    Nicely done on the distance Bob - only an extra 0.04 miles over the full course is good going. You must have been taking the corners well to avoid adding much extra distance on there.

    Good luck with this week's training guys image

  • Yes Nothe, made a mental note to shave off as much as possible on corners - safely! However, when I looked at some photos of the event, I looked quite tense facially and in the hands. Must remember to stay relaxed, can make a significant difference. It's tricky trying to remember everything in the race situation isn't it? 

    Be interesting to see how your 18 miler goes. I am still undecided about gels. I have been taking energy bars but not sure how effective they are.

  • Yeah it's tricky to remember to relax in a race. I shake out my arms every few miles and try to remember to relax as much as possible. I tense my shoulders when I run so if I don't remember to keep relaxing the last few miles are agony! Courses where there are interesting things to look at when you're running help as you forget to be tense and worried about your running / pace / everything else.

    Using gels is an easy choice for me - I can't eat anything solid when I run as I just chuck it up straight away. If I could eat anything solid I would do! I'd aim for raisins / dates / jelly babies or something like that to get the sugar in though. If you're not feeling a drop in energy when you're eating the bars then they're doing a job for you. I don't tend to feel a boost after a gel, but my energy levels stay constant so I know they're doing something.

  • Hi guys. Hope you've both had a good week.



    Bob, how's the recovery from the race last week been? Did you take a few days off from the training plan? Are you going to reset your training times based on your Newport HM time?



    Nothe, how did your 18 miler go? Were you able to maintain the pace? Think I'm with you with the gels based on recent experiences on the long run.



    Not the greatest week's training but not a disaster either. Made a really good start to my interval session on Thursday but it tailed off badly. Probably several factors behind this but more than anything I reckon it was the 60 second recoveries, very short for me. Third 20 miler (32k and a bit) on the plan for me today. First training run since autumn in shorts and tshirt and slightly warm towards the end. Ran the marathon route from around 16.5k to 24k and picked up parts of it again later on. The hill round about km 21 was fine, easier than I thought. Found the last 6k or so hard going but I guess it's good mental preparation.



    Bob, is your 20 mile race next weekend? Nothe, are you still doing your pre-marathon marathon?



    Not a fantastic week train
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