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Is it cheating ?
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I like the idea of races with cut off times, no just completing the distance there, however you intend to run / run-walk it. There was / is a 10k with a 20min 5k split you have to manage or you get pulled from the race half way, I fancy doing it but can't remember where it's held.
Of course one of the purposes of a race is to get from point A to Point B as quickly as possible, but acheiving the sustained effort over the course of the distance is another goal, regardless of how quickly you do it in. If everyone adopted the walk / run method then the magazine would be called Walk and Runners World. But if people want to do it then fine, it's just not my view of what running is about.
The theory behind this is remarkably elegant.
Most of us could run 5k at half marathon pace with no problem, with a walk break of 1-2 mins we would be ready to go again. Repeat 8 times and you've done 40k at half marathon pace plus 8-16mins. With a bit of experimentation you could trim those paces and rest breaks.
I think I would find 8x 5k at half marathon pace with 1-2 min recoveries extremely difficult.
Tim, are you seriously suggesting that someone could do 24miles at their half marathon pace with mere 1-2min breaks every 5k?
I don't think even the slowest runner, a runner who has zero variance between their easy and half paces would manage that.
I think this one should be filed with some of your more ridiculous posts.
This is such a silly thread. You can run, walk, hop, or do whatever you want as long as you complete the distance. It most certainly is not "cheating"! I've seen elite athletes walk short distances in championship marathons when fatigued. In fact, if it was categorically shown to be a more efficient way of getting round a track then everyone would be doing it - even Mo Farah!
That's what Galloway suggests. People are getting times like that from run walk strategies. 5k at 8min/mile rather than the whole distance at 9min/mile. As I say you'd have to experiment with the paces and rests which he's already produced tables for. But we're all individuals So some adjustment would work.
I've done 50miles running everything flat and downhill and walking up hills. No way could I run 50miles at any pace. I couldn't even begin to think about how to train for that.
Linking it to ultras is a complete red herring. They're massively specialist and extreme.
I don't think it is. For your above average runner, running a whole marathon is possible. For your average runner it isn't. What exactly stops someone becomming above average could be lack of training, but it could equally be a physiological limitation that no amount of training can overcome.
Suggesting people should just train more is niaeve.
What are you on about.
The vast majority of people without physical limits such as injuries or such factors can run a whole marathon.
100s of thousands manage that every year, and take 4/5/6 hours. Those are probably the "average" runners you are talking about.
Running 50miles or ultras is a completely different animal. Utterly unrelated.
Damn, I finished Loch Ness in 4:55 and thought I'd done well but after checking my Garmin have to tell people I 'slow jogged' it - obviously not the same as running! Are we saying in order to say we 'ran' it then it has to be under a certain time else it was actually jogged?
My own thoughts is this is total down to the individual. To say anyone can do a marathon, its just a matter of time I am not so sure that is correct. If someone is capable of running a 40 minute 10k and then in a race they run a 60min 10k, have they cheated? Answer for me is they probably feel disappointed with themselves but not cheated. For me you set yourself a goal, if you achieve it, however you achieve it, as long as the goal was challenging for you then job done.
Of the 20 people I run with. 5 have run marathons. The average runner does not run marathons. If someone does run a marathon, a straw pole of my 5 friends, 3 of them walked at some stage. That's 2/20 'runners' who have run a marathon from start to finnish.
I watched the London marathon on the TV last year. People were all in and walking by mile 6.
Think back to how hard you found your first 10k and the sense of acheivement you felt at your first half marathon.
The vast majority of people cannot run a whole marathon, the training to do that is a huge undertaking.
The VLM is probably not a great example... I'd guess that if you went to watch a smaller marathon that isn't on the telly then most "runners" would run the whole thing.
From my experience I've passed a fair few people walking on halfs and full marathons.
From my point of view, you have to be above avarage to complete a marathon. That means you have to have done training above and beyond what an average runner would undertake.
If we are talking about average marathon runners that would be different. I would suspect that people who finish faster than 4hours will not have walked any or much of it. Some people finishing slower will still have run the whole way.
I would also suggest that taking part in the first two or three marathons is still part of your training. I wonder how many people have got their pacing correct on their first few marathons.
The discussion is more about whether an experienced fast marathon runner would go faster by taking planned walk breaks.
I spoke to a ex French foriegn legion soldier about ultras. His comment was that as soon as you start walking, your heart rate drops and it becomes harder to clear waste products from your muscles. For this reason fast marathon runners don't always make very good ultra runners. Unless you have actually trained to do a run/walk strategy it will make you slower.
I know people think I'm muddying the waters between marathon and ultra marathon but the strategy is the same.
If anyone who is a fast experienced marathoner has finished quicker by using a walk run programme and can give me evidence of that, I will offer to coach Tim R for free.
I will get my payback in knowing that he's out training hard rather than writing these kind of posts.
If I was a fast experienced marathoner then I'd be straight outside my door training to finish quicker by using a run-walk-run strategy because the idea of Stevie G coaching Tim R for free amuses me... Probably in much the same way as the thought of Simon Cowell having to spend £1M on that fat guy who won the X Factor amused the voting public
I'm sure you're missing my point. Galloway's tables go down to 8min/mile or 3:20? So we're not taliking fast fast but faster than average.
My own marathon times are subject to weather, trail condition, hills and a three run a week plan. I've decided this year to stop playing with the training and take it a bit more seriously.
My week will be 1 long run (13-20miles), 1 medium long run (10miles) with a tempo section of 3-4miles. a 6x1000m interval session and two-three easy 6mile runs. I would suggest that is not an average week for an average runner.
Make up your mind which discussion we're having, Tim.
That's kind of my point. What is 'fast' and at what point does the run/walk become void.
8mins is fast to me, about 50secs/mile faster. Probably very slow to Stevie G.
I personally think it's not about how fast you complete 26.2 miles or if you walk now and again. I believe it's about posture. If you don't keep you back straight then you are cheating. If your head begins to wobble, cheating, If you look stern and grumpy, cheating.
The only true run marathon is one where you keep your back up-right, don't wobble, not even a nod, and keep grinning. You can obviously forget the walking, ( until 10 yards over the finish line.)
Today at Abingdon I passed plenty of runners cheating, especially the first timers.
Bless them.
My aim was to run Freely throughout .
Finish time 3:33;33 .. you can't get no freer than that.
Hey Flob ,what Have you told you about staying up too late?
I dont get why the planned walk/run is even on the table as a 'faster' solution. If it was a faster solution, if it was a faster solution then which elite runners use that strategy, and if not, perhaps somebody ought to tell them.
Planning a walk/run isnt because you know its faster, its because you know you won't last the full distance running the whole thing.
It's both.
It can be a faster solution depending on your level of ability.
It's certainly going to make you faster if you use a structured plan than running for 15 or 16 miles and then having to walk the entire rest of the way.
Mr A.why don't you test it...folow a stryctured run/ wlak programe......and see if you get a better result than your prefferred treadmill programme
It says something when Mr A has it bang on.