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Pirate Race Team
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Gary,
You asked on this forum about a Pirate race team and I thought the responses were very clear and unambiguous in that the majority opinion was that leveraging the pirate brand for advertising was not welcome. You recognised and I thought respected the thoughts and opinions expressed.
I see that you’ve launched the Buccaneer Tri Club.
I cant help but think that you are ignoring all the strong opinions that people expressed.
You are leveraging the pirate brand. The facebook page and the website directly link the Buccaneers to the pirates. The pirates are referred in the first paragraph and the association continues in the ‘discounts’.
I totally understand that there is an association with the pirates, but you must forgive me for feeling suspicious when I go on to read the sponsor adverts on the Bucanneers webpage.
“The team are extremely happy to have support from Meridian, their nut butters and fruit spreads are to die for…. “ etc etc
BEET IT SPORT “we recommend that not only do you use Beet It Shots….” Etc etc
This might come across as petty and I don’t want to be but is this the thin end of the wedge. The meridian sports write up looks particularly cheap and tacky! It looks like you’ve bannered the site with a pirate associated introduction, id like to see the association a little less conspicuous if we’re going to be linked to tacky adverts.
If you want to have a race team and a website thats one thing, and ive said I support it.
Given the feelings expressed you said it would be seperate from the pirates. When I look at the website I see references to pirates, pictures of people racing in pirate kit. Thats all good but to link it all to a load of adverts is exactly what people were dead against.
The thing is though, Barley, they are (or were) pirates. They race(d) in pirate kit. They've done as you (where you means plural posters on this thread, not singular you personally) wished by forming a separate team, not called the PSOF team, but what do you expect them to do? Deny their heritage? I've been and looked for the website (and you do have to find it, you can't find it from the first click of the facebook page) and found the team (by the way, it's a team, not a club) and they have all previously raced in pirate kit and met through the pirates. Do you simply expect them to pretend they haven't?
I can't help but think it's a bit of a storm in a teacup. I really can't see how they are doing the pirates any harm. I can't see there being a date in the future where we won't be able to buy kit without having a brand name slapped across our backsides. I can't help but think that what was an all inclusive group is going to marginalise the top end. Maybe I'm just being too simplistic.
i think i understand Barley............
If I do a deal with Wonga.or any other company..like hot porn,,,,,,,and i then link it to me being a pirate...it does then seem to imply that all pirates support and enjoy hot porn financed by wonga.........#
I'm not sure that this is anything like it but I suppose it just shows that the pirates are not an official club and that anyone can use the name and kit to link with anything ........even UKIP.or worse the Tory party......look out for Boris riding his bike in pirate kit next week with the union jag flag mixed in with the skull and cross bones...
+1 with Mouse there
and I don't think the "the responses were very clear and unambiguous in that the majority opinion was that leveraging the pirate brand for advertising was not welcome" is correct either. maybe a majority who expressed an opinion felt it, but I don't believe everyone expressed an opinion - I didn't.
Sorry - website is very much a work in progress - I only posted the facebook thing because I got a discount code from Jim who does xendurance and triathlete mag. And I thought that maybe people looking to give their aunts and uncles something decent to buy them for Christmas could use the offers - mainly the subscription.
Have a look - the website is just draft - I still stick by that if I can, then I'd happily pass on offers to you guys, don't like it, then fine. Don't want to use it then fair enough.
I've been approached by Triathlete mag to ask he pirates to do race reports in return for free race entries - these will not appear on the Buccaneer Race Team website- If again you don't want to take up this offer or create a boycott then go for it.
I've been approached by a number of pirates who are the targets for this team asking how they can be involved, this is a separate venture of people who have come from the pirates and still race in pirate kit.
I've never said to anyone that I / the team represent or speak for the pirates, nor have I said that any of the pirates will follow our lead - in fact most of the team want fk all to do with products and wish I hadn't ask for this.
So I await yours and Candy's super injunction but please wait until the site is finished before you go jumping to any more conclusions.
I would put the full site as draft but it's bloody blocked by my firewall
Mouse, I dont want to deny anyone their heritage and perhaps it is a storm in a tea-cup, but I worry that its the thin end of the wedge.
Does it do the pirates any harm? our kit is on the website and linked to this are adverts, how much different is that to having our kit sponsored?
The race team suggestion was sewn on the seed of leveraging the pirates, sponsorship, marketing. Thats effectively what is happening and what people objected to.
Its probably none of my business but I dont get the fixation with advertising. I just cant believe a race team cant exist without the sponsors, do they really need Meridian Foods & BEET IT SPORTS?
When I initially looked on facebook I welcomed some offers being extended to Pirates, then I looked further and find for example we get 25% off Xendurance, you can get 20% off via their website. Its all seems superficial, its like theyre pretending to be Team Sky but without the free Jaguars. The sponsorship looks cheap and unecessary.
So - wait you can get a worse offer elsewhere - fk you must be a sales person's dream! "Like this car 1/2 price Sir", "No thanks I was offered 5% off down the road - good day".
Tell you what Barlos, as this is obviously a dictatorship, I'll do exactly as you say, I'll scrap the team, I'll not give away the race entries nor ask for discounts on my friends behalf. I'll keep the information I wish to share to myself and stop socialising with my friends - just when you show me the binding contract that said when I put on pirate colours I most not use them in association with anything else - thought we'd been through that one (which caused a mega flounce)
Sorry you're upset - it's very much work in progress, don't like it, ignore it, if you think it cheapens the pirates more than stopping for fags around an IM bike course then you're a bit messed up.
The team is made up of pirates - I've even been so bold to call them fast pirates. When I invite you to join when you go sub 10, feel free to politely tell me to fk right off.
Yours slightly bored of the same old whinging crap from folk that think they have the right to speak for over 500 people - you've expressed your opinion - it's noted.
The race team suggestion was sewn on the seed of leveraging the pirates, sponsorship, marketing. Thats effectively what is happening and what people objected to.
Your interpretation and supposition you mean surely?
So basically it’s the original plan and fck you if you don’t like it. The earlier content of this thread is worthless?
I never said scrap the team, it’s a good idea. Ive nothing against the team, nothing against people trying to better themselves, achieve their ambitions, support each other, socialise. Even free race entries.
It’s the advertising/ Your not getting a car for half price! Now are you getting a discount for nothing if you’ve having to post cheap comments like “their nut butters and fruit spreads are to die for”.
Im upset, but clearly not as upset as you.
When was the last time you’ve raced in pirate kit?
If ive cheapened the pirates by stopping for fags around an IM bike course id like to think ive made up for it by supporting at dozens of races, year in year out, bankrolling kit orders etc etc.
What is most bizarre about this whole thing as far as im aware you’ve had next to nothing to do with the pirates for 8 years but suddenly appear when there’s a quick buck to be made.
Can it not happen without the advertising?
the important question is whether that beetroot juice makes your piss turn red? no point drinking it otherwise
Barlos - It could happen without mentioning pirates, without giving anything back..I could just do a blackline or freespeed and then would you care, it would have been easier but I really wanted to create a resource for people around the 11 hour mark to go to who wanted to get to the 10 hour mark.
And the advertising will not be on the front page as it is - I'm playing with the site, never having used wordpress before so trying things out, the words are just filler, although I'm not sure they'll get much better if I'm writing them.
But - why the fk do you care? I'm not forcing anything on you, I'm not changing or using the kit? And I'm not making any cash from this venture either and I'm not calling it the official runner's world pirates race team (and I was never going to do that)
The reason for me not racing in the kit should be obvious but the fact still remains most of my tri friends were through the pirates, whether or not I jumped ship matters not a hoot - I was on the original ship along with yourself and laugh when people go on about the pirate ethos / spirit / etc - I seem to remember it was mainly blind panic for 9 months and slagging off green bikes - somehow some mystical bullshit came out of the back of it, mainly when more people came on-board and the old skool banter got diluted.
Hats off to you for bankrolling the pirates - maybe you should get an award. I've supported many a race, just because it was a PSOF outing makes no difference.
I do hope you've taped over the LG sign on your pirate kit and sanded off the decals from your wheels or re-sprayed your cervelo etc...
Slam the website when it's finished, don't use the offers, don't write a race report.
Just get off the horse and wait until you see what it's about then feel free to rip into it.
Lets call a truce until early December shall we...?
Candy - 2 shots and a IM makes for bright pink piss
just go for whole beetroot and scare yourself shitless (literally) that you have colon cancer and the jobs a good 'un
NO truce, fight it out. I'm enjoying this....
Piss off you!
i don't think you're supposed to put them up your arse
I care because im passionate about the pirates, like I said earlier in the thread I have found a home amongst the pirates, somewhere I and others havn’t found in many other tri-clubs. I fear change, particularly when its associated with advertising and sponsorship, I think that fear is justified as its corrupting. You don’t get anything for nothing and that could put at risk the pirate ethos and spirit we’re all so fond of.
I realise that you’re intending to separate the race team from the pirates and I genuinely admire your ambition. Whether ive jumped the gun remains to be seen but the draft website played to my fears. I know youre not forcing anyone to participate but what I saw today struct me as participation by association. Maybe the revised site will be different?
Please believe me when I say im not looking to argue for sake of pettiness (it surely must seem so) but I know how commercial organisations operate and they want their piece of flesh. People’s perceptions are easily swayed, I look to the future and wonder whether association with sponsors / advertisers could reflect on us. Do we really want to see the thread on tripetalk ‘pirates nut butters and fruit spreads are to die for’, though I now understand those words were just filler.
Clearly you’ve developing the idea, but please there can be advertising by association, and yes there are decals on my bike, yes we wear LG kit but its not explicit advertising, there is a difference. I would urge you to think about the relative benefits you can get vs whether you need to display adverts, avoiding adverts would avoid many of the concerns.
Incidentally ive long considered having a custom pirate paint job on my bike but will hold off until ive the Meridian foods brand statement
OK - we obviously have a difference on opinion on this. And there you go with that ethos shite again...but hey you're not the only one.
The pound of flesh is simple - they hope by supporting a bunch of fast triathletes with good social media contacts may influence people to buy said products...
Triathlete Mag make their money from advertising and not subs, so getting more people to subscribe even at cost means better charge back for them. It's really quite obvious.
Anyway I'll be sending you your new mandatory logos to plaster over yourself in the coming weeks.
Fear not.
Bouncing Barlist wrote (see)
Have you told Ginsters you're thinking of defecting
Clearly we have a difference of opinion, I seem to recognise something special about the pirates which makes them different to other tri clubs and you don’t.
You don’t see the problem that the ‘also ran’ pirates by association are supporting your mates (some of whom are/were pirates) so they can get freebies from companies, and cast off some breadcrumbs/discounted magazine subscriptions to keep the rest of us quiet.
If the concept is so great you should play down the pirate association and let it stand on its own merits.
I've had enough of this shit - I'm off to Tripetalk.....oh - hang on.....
Who's keeping you quite? You find a lot your self-worth and identity through a club which is basically like any other tri club but without the organised training aspects and committee - it's just a virtual club with a strong social element, not everyone gets on, there's little cliques and sub-groups and there's a shared kit.
It does stand on it's own merits - it's not called the Pirate / PSOF race team - but we are who we are and most of them team choose to still race in pirate kit. There's no plans for new team kit.
Tell you what - I'll not post anything about the team here and if Cougie says so, I'll not post anything in the FB group either and people can find out info from the website when ready of the team facebook page.
Incidentally when youre thinking about advertising & sponsorship and even tenuous association with the pirates, please bear in mind there is approx £10000 of pirate money with LG pending delivery of the next kit order.
What happens if this little venture doesnt work out how you expect, there is around £100,000 worth of pirate kit in circulation.
What? I really don't understand what you're trying to say here.
There's no advertising or branding with pirates - I don't sail this ship...I'm only interested in the Buccaneers, which happen to be made up of pirates.
Any supplier would be keen to tap into a growing club - we all know triathletes have more money than sense - I don't think they're buying our souls.
For me its the advertising by association.
The Buccaneers, have a product to market, it so happens that the product is an elite self selecting group of people who race in pirate kit. Theyre promoting their product on the internet and linking it to adverts/sponsors.
The implication is that people in pirate kit are associated with those adverts/sponsors. When in reality it’s the minority of the Buccaneers or those people who opt in who will see the cream of the benefits.
In other words youre leveraging the pirates.
What about if a group of pirate smokers clubed together and launched a website with tobacco sponsorship, photo’s of us competing with fags in our mouths and in our back pockets. What about if we appeased the other pirates with free subscription to magazines while we used the free tickets to watch the then ‘Marlboro’ F1 team at Silverstone?
How would the non/anti smoking pirates feel?
Barley, sorry but I don't think there's much similarity between being a Buccaneer and being a smoker! I'm guessing that most Pirates, like me, don't see any good reason to be anti-Buccaneer, whereas many would have a problem with smokers, as I'm sure you've found.
And any Pirate can take advantage of the Triathlete Europe discount. I stumbled on the site earlier today and used the discount code for my next year's subscription - came at just the right time for me, so thanks, Buccaneers, keep them coming
.
If someone pulls on pirate kit and enters an ironman race aren't they part of the pirate race team ? it's just that some will go under the finish arch a lot quicker than others.
i did my first 70. Distance in pirate kit and the support, banter and mutual respect for doing the distance was unrivalled. Hoping to do my first ironman within the 9 month window to go with the pirates ethos, also provide & payback support to other pirates along the way.
There will always be fast & slow triathletes ( I'm at the slow end ) Why the need for the elite to splinter away ? Surely there's room for all abilities on the PSOF.
I've just walked away from a tri club as it got personal and political. Hope the pirates sort out differences of opinion, otherwise cutlasses at dawn or slug it out over a few rums.