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P&D Spring Marathon Training Thread
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My top tip would be don't run over any wet manhole covers while wearing them.
That's quite specific, I shall ensure I keep a safe distance!
Snow and ice - even slush. I did my first 20 miler in fresh snow last year- there were no manhole covers though...
But if its just ice won't you in the main be running on concrete in them which will wreck them?
Not if it's hard packed ice - they're fine on that
Still no running for me
. I had physio yesterday and she was surprised that there's been no improvement in my groin strain despite resing it for nearly 5 weeks. Major bummer 
. She didn't really come to any proper diagnosis either...it's a mystery!
Sorry to hear that Shazmo. Injury's so frustrating, I know.
I got a bit carried away on the first run of my plan. My LT is 6:10 to 6:19, but I ended up running 9mi w/ 4 @ 5:57! I'm putting it down to excitement. I will run with more discipline from now on.
Anyone else had a case of Too Fast Tuesday today?
Aw, that sounds crap Shazmo. Different physio?
andrews, if you didn't end up flooding your legs with lactate, perhaps your actual lactate threshold pace is faster than you think.
There was no risk of me going too fast as I just did my 8 mile general aerobic run with 10x 100m strides, as the easy version told me to.
I was pretty tough, but the sun was out!! My training paces are based on a 2:54 marathon target. I think that will be reasonably hard for me and I'd be over the moon with 2:54. In fact, I'd be over the moon to get to the start line after the Autumn Disaster.
I don't think you should be basing all your paces on your target, though - if the point of doing threshold runs is to improve your lactate threshold, then aren't you supposed to be running just slightly slower than where that threshold is? Your body doesn't know what your marathon target is.
I normally try to do what the books says, to the letter. The paces feel bang-on when I stick to them.
Today I ran faster than P&D says I should. More 10k pace than 15k-half Mara.
Well, in that case the book might predict horrific DOMS in a day or two...
Shazmo- As Lit says, maybe try a different physio. Whilst i am sure yours is very good, another one looking afresh may just spot something they have come across before.
Andrews- Again... as Lit says, setting your training paces to a desired time may then mean you are not hitting the LT zone etc.
I am 'tapering' down for a 10k sunday, and feel like i need it after 5 consistent weeks of 45 ish miles. My adapted schedule is light this week with very little after wednesday. I have half day today and i have scheduled 14 miles, however having run xc saturday and then a tune up track session last night I am rethinking it and going to do an 8 mile aerobic and strides.
week 2 of 18/55. I've just been for a very relaxed 4mi jog during lunch, to loosen the legs a little. Felt really good actually. seems difficult on shorter "recovery" runs to keep the pace slow enough, I find the pace drifting up, and have to slow myself down a bit.
The 18/55 plan has only 4 runs this week, i'm adding a 5th (4mi recovery jog) that I've borrowed from week 1, since I missed the recovery jog. I suspect it won't do any harm in the scheme of things, and it felt good to stretch the legs.
I started my 18/55 plan yesterday with a rest day ... wasn't tempted to run as I was working/travelling. Today is 8M with 4 at HMP ...ouch
. Better get on with it I guess.
Shazmo - sorry to hear that. A 2nd opinion might be a good idea.
Andrews, well done on an impressive LT run.
Still got some DOMS in my legs so today was a 6mi recovery run. Hopefully back on schedule tomorrow.
Andrews - I agree with the others that your LT is likely faster than you thought - definitely a positive thing. 4 miles at 10k pace would be almost impossible for me in a training run!!
I have still got the best part of 3 weeks to go before the start of my schedule...feeling a little left behind!
Xyloid, which race are you planning to run?
Milton Keynes on the 5th May.
andrews... I'm a week in front of you (though 45 minutes behind you on target time!)
I don't know if you saw my posts after my attempt at the 8 miles with 4@ LT last week - but I had a similar, more dramatic misjudgement. I was aiming around 8:10 min per mile, but achieved under 7:20 over the 4 miles. People on here supported the view that that couldn't be too far from my actual LT. (in fact, I concluded that 7:35 to 7:40 was probably the LT run pace, based on that training performance.)
Then, on Saturday, I did a park run, and just plugged my time into the calculator... and it suggests my LT runs should be done at 7:36 !!
So....
Training has officially started.
8.3M with the quality 4M going...
7:40, 142 bpm
7:31, 146 bpm
7:17, 150 bpm
7:08, 155 bpm
I reckon my HMP is 7:15 ish at the moment but hopefully that should improve as the training kicks in. Started off feeling terrible during the 3.6M warmup up/easy phase ... 13.2 hilly miles still in my legs from Sunday. HMP seemed beyond me at first but pleased that I warmed up to the task and got there in the end. Rest day tomorrow. Again!
This weekend I have a 13 mile "long" run with 8mi at marathon pace. According to recent 5k performances my MP based on current fitness should be ~ 8:25.
The idea of running 26.2 miles at that pace seems ridiculous to me. I was in similar 5k and 10k shape in April this year, but when I ran the MK marathon in May I blew up around 14-15 miles, even though I was on 9:00 pace until then, so on paper that should've been well within comfort range.
This thought niggles at the back of my mind, unfortunately. Even if i do a few 10ks before race day, and a few long runs with MP sections, as prescribed, i'm going to worry that at some point i'll blow up.
To be honest I don't know for certain why this happened in May, if anyone has suggestions I'm keen to hear them. My guess is that it was a combination of not fuelling right, perhaps burning too much energy early on (although as I said, I was running well within my supposed MP pace), maybe the heat, maybe not drinking enough fluids, who knows. I followed the P&D plan pretty strictly, and felt fairly good leading up to race day, so I'm at a loss to attribute it to one particular cause.
My recent 5k time would suggest a MP time of ~ 3:45, assuming I am trained for the distance (i.e. I do my long runs etc) but I did this last time and still blew up, so I'll just have to trust that it won't happen next time.
AG - you have any recent half marathon times you can go off? Did you complete MK? If so what time did you get? Getting mp from your 5k or even 10k time is risky .... maybe you need to work more on your endurance? Maybe you just went off too fast? Do your run this weekend with the mp miles at 3.45 pace and see how you get on (should be hard, but not impossible).
I like the First edition of P&D while you all you second edition followers have to do a LT run, all I have is an easy 8m with 8 x 100m strides all done nice easy run in 72 mins
AG - sounds like may be a lack of endurance. Some people are better equipped for speed and need to work harder to gain endurance. Equally, heat and hydration could definitely have been big factors. If it was endurance then you'll be in a far stronger position this time with all the gains from the last cycle of training
My gut feeling looking at P&D is that it has to come after some decent base phase training ... there's a lot of high end work in there, so I doubt you build much base once the programme starts. If you start with a poor aerobic base, I wonder how good it is when you get to 15-20M and the glycogen stores run dry (because you burn more carbs if you've neglected base training). Dunno ... just thinking aloud.
Dr Dan - not sure P&D has more quality than others. I went from Higdon to P&D last year and did more 'faster' running with Higdon. I've not done Daniels or HADD but they defo have more fast stuff. i think that the emphasis of P&D is mileage, particularly the midweek med/long run
I'm in. I think for Manchester but we have VLM club ballot next Wed, so fingers crossed...
Deja Vu for me. Third time on a trot, I am bloody training for a sub 3:45. Anyway, if anyone will get me there, it is P&D.
Just going to read back 29 pages.
Best to keep the 'runners & riders" list current... if it drops too far back in the thread, we'll get mixed up. If anyone's joined the thread since it was last discussed, then add your details here. Or be hunted down and cast out. Oh... and stick to the conventions of putting your name in EXACTLY the right place on the list, or you're in big trouble with some on here. (personally, I don't know what those conventions are.. so good luck with that
)
6 April: Brighton
mace - 3:05 18/70 with some fiddling about
Nose Nowt - 3:40 - adapted 18/55
Lisa 123 - sub 4 - 18/55
6 April: Lochaber
StewartC - sub 4 - 18/70
6 April: Manchester
Kease7 2:59 18/70
Debutant 3:05 18/70
NSGNR - sub 3.45 - mix of 18/55 and 18/70
AgentGinger - sub4 - 18/55
6 April: Paris
yer_maj - sub 4 or die - 18/55
13 April: VMLM
Ryan Snell - sub 2:45 - adapted 12/85
15West- sub 2:48 - 18/70/85 (mix of both)
Andrews148 - sub 3 - 18/70
Freddy 1 - Sub 3.00 - 18/85
DT19- Sub 3.05 - 18/55
Literatin - sub 3:05 - 18/70
marrows - sub 3:10 18/70
Ramjet - 3:25 - 18/70
Dr.Dan - 3:25 - 18/55 (Haddapted)
running220 - sub 3:30 - 18/70
Shazmo – sub 3.30 – 18/55 (may reconsider goal as currently injured)
PJH92 - sub 3.45 - 18/55
Rachelcgen - sub 4:30 - 18/55
21 April: Boston
Shazmo – sub 4 – 1 week recovery after VMLM
6 May: Milton Keynes
Xyloid - sub 4:00 - 18/55