Hansons Marathon Method

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  • Good to finish the week off a little tired but satisfied MR.  I'm feeling tired after the last couple of weeks but have a nice easy week next, before the final 'push'

  • Week 13 Update

    Another decent week but definitely feeling a bit jaded at times. This week gone was probably  the peak mileage I will run. Based on the last few weeks the high 60s / low 70s is probably about right for me at this stage. A cut back week now follows before the final few weeks.

    Easy  48.1 @ 7:13
    Strength 6 @ 6:04
    Tempo (MP) 10 @ 6:16
    Long Run 17.3 @ 6:59

    Total 81.4 @ 6:57

    Summary pdf plan

  • Hi all

    AR, MIllsy1977, Andi McGill


    Interesting to read about approaches and mental fatigue re: marathon time chasing. I set out on this marathon training plan hoping to go sub3 but have pretty much given up on that now.

    New job, commute (with 50m-a-week cycle) and early starts just too much and was getting too depressing never quite hitting the times. Am hoping that by following the plan closely and adding miles here and there, as I have, I will reap the benefits during the taper etc so I can make the GFA time again.

    Hoping that with the days getting longer (and, fingers crossed, less windy and rainy) will cheer things up too.

    HM on Sunday will be a key test. Like you AR plan to use it as my tempo run. Schedule has 9miles on the plan, do you think I should limit it to 9 or push for a longer tempo?

  • Tough luck with life getting in the way BW, but jobs and families come first. Hopefully it will come good and you will at least gain GFA again.

    This is just my opinion, but running a 9 Tempo in a training session is a tougher ask than 9  tempo run in a race situation. I was planning on running the whole 13.1 @ MP at Wokingham until it was rained off - I think the plan recommended 9. Don't tell the Hanson's  though!

    I say all this in the knowledge that the the following weeks plan is adjusted, which means no quality session on the Tuesday following the half marathon. Hanson's would move the Strength session to Thursday and drop that weeks Tempo.

  • That's good to know AR. I was going to miss the tempo preceeding the race. Makes sense to miss it as recovery I guess.

    Bit more sleep this week and times improved so that's encouraging.

    Well impressed by your times though and, if you haven't seen already, this is a link to the training diary of the RAF bloke who was on Marathon Talk recently and uses a mostly Hanson method: http://bit.ly/1hfAPCB

  • I heard his interview BW (Ben Livesey)? and will take a look at the training diary - I note he is on the start line at Reading HM this weekend so it will be interesting to see how he fairs.

    I liked the fact that they interviewed an elite who wasn't doing the conventional elite thing of 120+ miles pw. Instead it is 70 - 80 mpw plus a lot of cross training. It goes to show there are many ways to train.

    I've been looking around for info on the Hansons Simulator (a 26.2 KM 'metric marathon'): http://running.competitor.com/2012/08/training/workout-of-the-week-the-simulator_14385

    I am tempted to slot this into the schedule about 4 weeks out and have found a 16 mile race on a Sunday morning I could use. Very tempted to stick this in the mix.

    Bit more sleep this week and times improved so that's encouraging - envious I- I'm not far off insomnia this year

  • Just having a look at your plan he's not a big believer in tapering ! image good luck.

     

  • I think it will suit. 10 - 14 days taper worked well in the past. Anymore and I'd go stir crazy!

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Week 14

    Summary pdf

    A slightly more relaxed week with a cut back in mileage and a half marathon at the weekend. A previous half had been cancelled that I had planned to run at Goal Marathon Pace (6:15), and I had been planning on this weekend to race Bath Half Marathon. As it was I did neither one thing or the other and ran it in 1:21:02 (6:11 min/m) which is mid way between GMP and HM PB.
    I'm not overjoyed with this as I should have stuck to GMP or pushed for a half marathon PB. My head wasn't in it today, but I will take the following from it

    • I ran at a constant pace running mainly by feel rather than by the watch. There was no fade in pace.
    • After mile 2 my heart rate was constant throughout until it started dropping slightly towards the end
    • physically the pace was comfortable.
    • I think the half marathon pace that Luke Humphrey set me (5:55) is way way outside my capability. Maybe without marathon training fatigue, on a good day, I would hope to close in on 6:05
    • I'm not questioning the MP goal of 6:15 yet, as I do convert well for marathons. I am possibly thinking that 6:18 pace (2hr:45min) may be a safer bet, but I will run a 16 mile race before deciding in a few weeks time.

    Weekly Mileage 59 @ 6:51
    Easy 40 @ 7:11
    Strength(Threshold) 6 @ 5:59
    Tempo (HM) 13 @ 6:11

    So, last 6 weeks to go so a tough few weeks to get through now.

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Hang in there, AR.  You have done an excellent job so far of sticking to it!  Am excited to see how it continues.  

  • Wouldn't be too hard on yourself AR. I can't run at your level but have developed a belief in the power of running to feel. You weren't far off GMP and the half may have just shown you that you could go a bit quicker on the big day, especially as you convert well, as you say.

    Love the idea of the simulator, btw. No chance of finding one anywhere near me, sadly. Too many hills and not enough races. Don't suppose your 16 miler is in the South East is it?

    Things are slightly improving for me and finally starting to look forward to some of the runs rather than dreading them.

    Going to add a parkrun to the end of my run this morning. Bit of an odd idea, I know but want to ensure I run the mileage and improve my LT as I push towards, hopefully, peaking.

    Any thoughts on this fartlek-style idea? There's a 5m race next week I fancy on the Sunday, when plan calls for 10m. Was thinking of splitting sessions: 6 early and 6/7(inc race) later. Not sure of the pros and cons so will use today as trial run.

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Hi MSE / BW

    MSE - hope the move is going well. My dreaded Achilles Tendinopothy emerged from hibernation so I am now walking the tightrope. It has been grumbling for a month or two, but now it shouting!

    BW, the 16miler I was thinking of is http://humanrace.co.uk/events/running/breakfast-run  so if Kingston is any good you could try that. It is an early 8am start.

    I think one of the approaches for a Saturday is to push into the moderate pace zone, so that you carry extra fatigue into Sunday. I would just be careful with the speed and LT miles you add into the weekend without adjusting them at them midweek. Extra mileage for the Advanced plan is supposed to be in the form of easy miles.

    At the end of the day, it is a plan not specifically written with you in mind. Mine was written specifically for me - I'll still adjust to suit conditions, what is best for me etc I know bestimage

  • AR sorry to hear about the Achilles. hope you stay comfortably on the rope.

    Kingston run might just work. Interested in how you will work into your schedule. That is a 16m MP run - the last one on my schedule - so would you lose the MP run for the Thurs before or after (after I guess, as with 1/2mara)? What would you run in its place - a longish slow run, 14m or sth?

    Parkrun trial worked ok btw. Hear what you are saying in terms of adding faster miles. Actually didn't add any miles today but was more of a fartlek ie split up and at a range of paces including close to 5k pb. Probably the equivalent of a moderate run on basis of av. pace.  May do the same with 5 miler or just go for another version of today's Parkrun if I still feel ok in tomorrow's long'un.

    What I can't work out is if two sessions at diff times on same day is same as one longer one (with one being slow and one fast). Have you ever tried similar?

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    BW I occassionally will do a relaxed 4/5 miles am, then a speedwork session pm. Lets say it is a 5 am and 9 pm, so 14 miles for the day.  Doing all those miles in a single session would be better for marathon training - I would prefer to run them in one session, but time/commitments etc!. (Hanson's recommend doubles when you are running 100+ mpw! - so I play the 'life gets in the way' card and do the occassional day as a double. For us mortals running lower mileage they prefer you to run on the rest day, or tack on easy miles to the sessions).

    For Kingston, the Thursday before will be something like a 12M / 14M easy to moderate paced run (probably run as a progressively increasing paced run). Fri easy 8M, Sat easy to moderate 10M.  At this stage I need to think about the week after. The Tuesday is down for 6x1M strength. I hope to do this but  I am going to have to start seeing how things progress/deteriorate with my achilles.

     

  • Focusing on staying injury free. Running 5 or 6 days per week and splitting long runs up into two runs of medium and small to make up the same duration or distance of 2.5 to 3 hour long run is sensible. The 20 mile long run in most  plans became popular based on an elite runner running 20 miles within 2 hours. 20 miles takes less experienced, inferior runners 2.5 to 3 hours+ to run 20 miles.

    Adding an extra day or two to fit in the total weekly miles by splitting it up into smaller runs makes running a more casual friendly recreational sport than trying to stick to plans designed for elite runners. Running 50 miles over 5 or 6 days per week should yield similar results as running  50 miles spread over 4 days per week.

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Thanks RW image - I don't think anyone on this thread is using an elite schedule, and there are no 20 mile runs. Most using Hansons are 6 or 7 days per week runners.

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Week 15

    pdf plan document

    A good start to the week, physically feeling in good shape but constantly tired following on from the half marathon followed by a long run on the Monday. Speed session on Thursday went well. But ...   woke up with my right achilles in agony which I feared is a recurrence of achilles tendonopathy that I had on and off for years before I started running.

    Saturday I replaced running with rowing, and spent time icing, performing heel drops, rollering .....  Sunday I did some more rowing following by an easy run. The pain has subsided but the ankle is stiff. I will probably rejig the week to front load it with easy runs while I continue stretching / strengthening. Hopefully I have caught it in time 

    Week in numbers

    57M @ 7:09

    Easy 38 @ 7:23
    Speed 3.1 @ 5:30
    Long R 16 @ 6:57

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    AR - be careful with that Achilles won't you? What sort of therapy are you doing?  If it is tendonitis as opposed to tendinopathy, be wary of stretching and aggravating the injury.  if it is tendinopathy, do you have a physio who is handy with a Graston tool?  

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Hi MSE, it is about 3 years since I was discharged by the NHS Consultant. I was dealt with for tendonitis and tendinosis.

    I'm hoping this is just a case of tendonitis (overdoing things a little) that I can manage for the next 5 weeks. I will see how I go with 3 x day eccentric strengthening. When I'm stretching I'm referring more to the hamstrings/glutes which were identified as the main problems previously.

    I've seen Graston tools used but don't have a local physio who does this. I think I remember you used ultrasound in the past as well - has that helped?

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Yes, I have a mini-ultrasound machine which has proven to be very helpful when I can feel a bit of tendonitis coming on.  Has saved me many a trip to the physio.  Icing is good for tendonitis too.  Heat and cold. Heat and cold. Repeat ad infinitum. image  Hope it goes as there is nothing worse than a niggle to distract you from the job in hand.  

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    No joy with any quick fixes for my achilles means that I have to depart from the Hanson Method image.  For the next week or two I will be running 3 times per week max. while my physio helps me decide whether to stop running for a month or two, or limp on

    I'm gutted not to see the schedule all the way through, but 3 days per week is not going to work with Hansons approach. I'll just play each session by ear, and fill in with plenty of indoor rowing.

    Sorry I didn't get all the way through, but that is marathon training. This week I pushed it as far as I could, but the recovery from each run is too long and painful. Feck, feck, bugger, bugger image

  • Fingers crossed for you AR, does not sound like much fun but you seem to know how to nurse it through.

    Not completing the plan as it was written is not the point though - it must have been based on being injury free and now you are adapting. No desertion there!

    It seems to be that phase in the build up that niggles start to come in as  things get cranked up. A couple of niggles I've been seeing the Physio about are grumbling a bit louder after I got carried away last Sunday. roller, stretching, massage, Physio is my approach - throw everything at it basically as we are nearly there.

    Btw1, have entered Kingston - and will set my alarm!

    btw2, has the term 'lead legs' entered the runners' lexicon? Pretty much describes how mine feel on many recovery runs. Doesn't affect pace, really, apart from in the first couple of warm-up miles but is definitely what I associate with Hanson method. Maybe I'll rename it that if I have to explain it to my non-running friends.

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    BW - throw everything at it basically as we are nearly there  That rings true!

    The week hasn't been a total write off. I've got my approach sorted now and am sparing the poorly tendon for any hard stuff. I'm capable of knackering myself out on the rower in order to keep the fatigue (or Lead Legs feeling) going.

    I managed the strength workout (2x3M) and Tempo session which hurt, and today did a 'long run' by combining a treadmill run with elliptical trainer and rower to for 2hrs 15mins, so all is not lost.

    This coming week I have a return to the physio. If he reckons things are progressing and worth continuing then I will aim for 3 to 4 runs and make the Kingston Breakfast Run.

    Plan pdf

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi AR, I am gutted to hear of your injury news. Although I haven't posted I have been following your thread and have been quite interested to see how things go. The Hansons Method does interest me and I have recently purchased a copy of the book and I am reading through now. It all makes sense and certain things tie in with how I would like to train. I remember a coach advising me a few weeks before a marathon to run 10 miles Fri, Sat, Sun and it was very effective.

    I hope you pull through....

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Thanks Nell. Things improve each day (not being woken up by painimage), and doing all the Easy sessions on the rower is sparing the tendon for the quality sessions. So I'm missing 50% of the running miles, but am maintaining 100% of the fatigue. If I can get back into things by the end of this week, it leaves one full week, and then 2 taper weeks.

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    I'll keep my fingers crossed for you AR. On aside there is a piece on Rowing covered as a cross-training activity in the Running Fitness magazine this month (not sure whether this will get censored image). For anyone who needs convincing....

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Week 17

    A bit of a tough week trying to keep things held together and give the training some flavour of Hanson's.  Easy rows were substituted for the easy runs, leaving the Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday quality workouts. Also after a session with my physio on Friday, he gave to go ahead to run the Saturday as well.

    The Strength workout was tough, and I was sore afterwards. Running it early evening meant I cut corners on recovering / icing etc, which gave me a sleepness night. Must run earlier in the day!

    Thursday was a Hanson Long run of 16M which was OK and I recovered quickly. Then after physio and lots of taping I was set free to run Sat and Sunday as a test.

    Saturday 10 Miles easy was fine, just a bit achy during the run, sore after
    Sunday was the day for the "Marathon Simulator" where the orginal plan was 16.2M @ PMP. I set out to do this, got to 10 miles @ 6:14 pace with just a few aches and pain, and then crashed as the ankle got tighter and tighter finishing with an 8min mile, dropping 8 places in the last 2 milesimage. Not quite the plan.

    Going forwards, I will return to the Physio, play it by ear one more week, and then either decide to bail out or drastically alter the targets. I'm in a better place than 2 weeks ago, but today, after 10 miles it was very telling.  Running will give way to rowing while things calm down again.

     Plan doc

    Hopefully BW had a good run today at the Kingston Wholefoods Breakfast run. It was a bit pricey but a good event for a key Hanson session.

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