Hansons Marathon Method

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  • Sorry to hear about Kingston AR. Difficult decision to make, too. Not sure what I would do. Suppose it depends if you will enjoy what is a fantastic experience regardless of your time and whether you risk further damage.



    Pleased to say breakfast run worked out well for me, so thanks for suggesting. Ran it at faster than MP throughout and finished with three fastest miles - the last a minute or so faster than MP.



    Just the confidence booster I needed.
  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Sounds like a great result BW - well done. Please wrap yourself in cotton wool now, until marathon day- the thread needs you !!

    It was a bit of an early start to get to Kingston but is ideal for a Hanson's "metric marathon" workout. I took a lot of confidence fron the first 10miles. It was really well controlled, and I was chatting very easily to another guy running alongside me. 

    I imagined we would be receiving a carrier bag full of misshapen organic veg at the end, as the goody bag. It didn't turn out to be quite the 'wholefoods' I imagined! 

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Five days of no running have passed (last Sundays run had painful repercussions), sanity slightly restored, and a physio who seems very gung-ho, has me ready to dip my toe in the water again this weekend, in the knowledge there is 2 weeks for recovery

    I'm aiming to run Sat and Sunday. 6 to 10 tomorrow, and as far as is comfortable on Sunday.  That should hopefully answer the Bin it, Race it, or Run it for fun question.

    The achilles is still sore, but direct massage is now bearable. If I can get some decent miles in this weekend, then I will at least run London for 'fun' and soak in the atmosphere. 

    If I come through it feeling OK and recover well, then a little MP session midweek will be the test for my prospects.

    Other than bucket loads of elliptical trainer and indoor rower to cling on to fitness, that is the plan.

    Gung ho physio has put the blame squarely on my left hip causing all the stress to the right achilles, so I have plenty of exercises to keep me occupied.

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Hope all goes well A R.

    I'm very tempted to try the Hansons method next spring.

    I will be running VLM for 'fun' this year as am running my first 50 miler the week before.
  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    I like the idea of VLM being your cool down! Good luck to you with the Ultra. 

  • How is it AR? Love an aggressive physio and hope your Achilles does too. Seeing mine tonight with grumbling ITB
  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Thanks for asking BW - a pretty  encouraging weekend. You could be in for some pain this evening! 

    On Saturday 8miles easy. A bit sore / stiff for most of it but more than bearable, and after plenty of icing & massage etc, I was walking just fine on Sunday am. 

    On Sunday I stuck some heal lifts in my trainers, and managed 16M progressively paced from 7:30 to 6:30.  Things aren't 100% but that was more than enough to decide I am still running image. The heel lifts really helped and the achilles is no where near as sore as past weeks when I attempted to run.  5 days off seemed like an eternity at this stage.

    I went out at lunch today to do 4 or 5 miles, but decided to bin it after 200M after a change of mind. No point pushing things for the sake of an easy 5 miler

    I will do the scheduled 6 x 1M (Tue) and the 6M @ MP (Thur) then put some thought into targets

  • Good stuff AR. That all sounds encouraging and good for the big day. Given how much training has been banked and we are in early taper, taking it easy seems comfortably the most sensible approach.

    Reckon ice will be our best friend over the next two weeks. ITB should be ok with some tlc. Fingers crossed. Just have to get through Tuesday and Thursday SOS sessions and we're there.



    Curious about last MP though. My plan says 10m again and your plan has taken you further in the past. Curtailed by your 16miler?
  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    BW - yes, he set 10 miles with 6 at marathon pace. I was toying with increasing it a little given the lack of running I've done since Kingston, but am also thinking maybe I should stay cautious.

    Anyway, checking the advanced plan from the book, and yes that includes 10@MP which is consistent with what you have down for this week. I'm a bit confused why he put me down for 6 miles MP - maybe he foresaw I'd be in pieces by now!( I couldn't remember if you were working to the book plan or one of the plans that were out there on the internet)

     

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    HI BW, Are you following a tailored custom schedule like AR?  If so, for how many weeks did you go for? Are you training for London? Sorry many questions, this plans intrigues me and I may use it for the Autumn marathon.

    Hi AR, Do you think you are going to make London? You don't really sound 100%?

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Nell - yes I'm 100% there (in my mind). I need to keep on top of the injury; every dsy gets a little better . Next step is to decide   do I enjoy the day and jog round, or try and make something out of the training I've got behind me and risk a DNF. The marathon paced session on Thursday should help decide.

    The book is well worth a read even if you decide against it. The plans are 16 weeks from the book. Longer and shorter available on line

  • Also-ran, like many I have been reading this thread with interest and all I would say is

    'I can accept failure. Everyone fails at something. What I cannot accept is not trying'

    Okay I nicked the words from Michael Jordan but go for it.

     

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi AR, Glad to hear things are looking positive. I look forward to hearing how you get on Thursday.

    Yes I have the book and have been reading through, I also have had a look online and see that you can purchase custom plans for various lengths.

    I look forward to hearing a summary of the whole experience from yourself and BW at the end.

    I'll keep my fingers crossed ;0)

  • Hi Nell Blue.

    Happy to answer any questions I can. Shared experience is what these forums should be for I reckon.

    I have followed a plan straight out of the book - the advanced 18-week one. Last time I used the method I just followed the plan in RW mag which alerted me to it (and I still have it!).

    There is more detail in the book on times, theory etc and it has been handy to have. Haven't followed the times too closely tbh as I'm still a bit of a run to feel bloke but tried to stay within the parameters they suggest for each type of session.

    With my goal MP slipping on the way, it all changed a bit anyway. Started off aiming for sub 3 but will be some way off. May have needed sth customised to achieve that I suppose (or some special rocket booster!).

    ITB worrying me. Physio thinks I'll be ok but I'm fretting cos it is quite painful even if I have still completed all my sessions.

    Pre-race paranoia? might be. Have had ITB before and running through it is a new one for me.

    Time to really man up (or find the aspirin)!

  • Obviously didn't mean asprin - must really be losing it. Have read warnings about Ibuprofen but clearly don't much about alternatives.

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Hi BW - sorry to hear the IT Band is still playing up. I had a bad case of it following my first marathon. I was using ibuprofen after running, paracetemol if needed while running. Have you done this weeks Tempo session yet, or do you still have that to run. If not err on the side of caution.

    Err on the side of caution? Not here - I never learn. I ran the 6 x 1M session yesterday with a little bit of discomfort. Then I started wondering if my 6M tempo for Thursday  was a typo by Luke Humphrey. I Convinced myself it should be 10M as every other Hanson plan seemed to be, so  decided that is what I will do on Thursday. Today I woke up with some discomfort, and decided rather than recover today, run tomorrow and then end up in pain again, I'd get it all done with today. So the 10M tempo is also out the way, ankle is in ice, and hopefully it is downhill from here. Definitely injury recovery first, running second from hereon, as I think I've just got away with it this time.

     

    Max - I will take that quote with me, plus a bit of beliefe from the great one

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    HI BW, Thanks for the update, what time are you settling on?

    Yes reading through the book, I can see it would be possible to build your own plan from it, there are all the relevant times for the sessions relating to the time you are aiming for and the structure of the plan to follow. I am finding the book a good read and it has impressed me. I think once Edinburgh is over I will start working out a plan for the October marathon from the book.

    I am really looking forward to hearing how you guys get on too.

    Do you think that the ITB is related to the plan or just something that has come on?

    I have suffered from ITB in the past but I seem to have got over it with the appropriate strength and conditioning in the right places and learning how to run properly (not heel striking) image.

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Hi Nell

    On building your own plan, I see slightly less flexibility with this plan (in terms of structure) compared to more traditional plans that work towards the Sunday Long Run, such as P&D plans. To make the shorter mileage long runs count requires a block of runs to take the right level of 'fatigue' into the long run. I read some changes made to the base plans by people on RW.com  that go against the method Hanson's published, e.g. "I want the rest day to be Saturday", "I'm going to do 5 x 20 milers" etc. I might be overthinking this, but structural changes without losing the effect Hanson's aim for could be difficult.

    Where I found the plan flexible is in adding in mileage as required, and also accommodating races during the buildup. They supply the rules on how to adjust which is handy (even though they are not keen on racing during marathon training)

    With injury, I was in despair initially, but managed to continue working with the plan by "hammering" the cross training, and getting as much of the quality runs completed. Physically those Hanson chaps don't want you to recover throughout the duration of the plan, only putting the brakes on 10 days before the race. I'm not sure how I would have faired if  was completely out for a week or two. I would probably reverted to 'proper' long runs and midweek sessions as a catch up.

    Anyway, enough of my musings for now. First job is to start the race, and then to try and do the training some justice.  

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    AR - let me be the little voice in your head reminding you that the discomfort is a sign you have soft tissue damage, a likely recurrence of your Achilles tendinopathy as you have discussed.  Throw everything you can at it, treatment-wise, won't you if you are persevering with the mileage?  I'll shut up now. image

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    I do hang my head in shame when I've done "a stoopid", and think, 'what would MsE say'!  So please carry on!  Eventually I will do the thinking before hand. I did give your little voice the night off as Mr Pain was on duty doing some shouting to keep me awake -  that was expected though as part of my buying an extra day recovery (i.e getting all the pain done with now).

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi AR, Yes I have seen guys saying that there are not enough 20 milers in the plan and adding some. It is the same with the P+D plans, where I have seen guys tinker with them. Although I think with the Hansons plan it seems more important not to start adding longer LSR's and changing your rest day to a Friday as it will just ruin things won't it? I can see where the Hanson guys are coming from giving you the Wednesday as a rest day then loading up over the weekend.

    The cross training hopefully will have helped, one of my running friends had an ankle injury last year and incorporated more cycling into his plan. He came away with a PB.

  • Hey AR, Nell Blue

    Thanks for concern. ITB slightly eased and physio I use - and trust completely after years of amazing service - is v confident. My problem is related to sciatica - bad posture at work etc and too much bl**dy sitting down! So, don't fear Nell, nothing to do with Hanson method IMO.

    Get the yips about niggles at this stage of the plan too but managed to work through the pain on my 6x1 session on Tuesday and still get good times. In fact, my times have improved a fair bit at the end of this plan, which is encouraging. 

    Still not sub-3 territory but as long as ITB doesn't hurt my mental approach (or body on the day!), confident of GFA (sub-3.15) and hope to put my pb (3.08.59) in danger.

    Going to go for the tempo tonight. Day off yesterday with lots of ice and rolling etc helped and there is time for much more of that from tomorrow on if nec. Today is last 'real' session in my mind. Taper running gives little benefit according to the manual other than to help keep us ticking over/sharp.

    Bring it on!

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi BW, Glad to hear the Hansons is not the culprit for the ITB   image Ice is the wonder drug, my physio always reminds me!

    Good luck with the tempo run....

  • Thanks NB Tempo actually went well but cool down was a disaster! ITB struck and I walked the last half mile. Tried to run again on Saturday but it just hurt too much. Physio still confident but has told me to taper without running so who knows what will happen now - apart from me using bucket loads of ice and enduring nasty foam roller sessions before the day.

    Hope you are feeling a good deal better AR and your training is going well NB


    Btw, NB if my training plan is of any interest you can see my Garmin stuff on connect. Alternatively, if you search for BigWarthog on Wordpress my training diary from two years ago is there.

  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

     

    Similar here BW . I tried 12 easy on Sunday and gave up at mile 7. One or two sleepless nights with the odd bit of shooting pain. 

    Hopefully you will see some improvement ready for Sunday and will be able to give it a go.

    I'm also going with the "don't run until Sunday" taper. Starting to visualise the outcome negatively by planning the best DNF stopping point.  However, I've dragged myself through the last 4 or 5 weeks so may as well see it through one way or the other. I will learn how much pain I can endure if nothing else. Here is hoping for 26.2 miles worth of adrenaline!

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi AR/BW, Sorry to hear the bad news. The ITB is a tricky one BW as you probably know, sometimes there is not a quick fix on this one. I have found before though if I start feeling it come on and ease off for a week it just catches it. Hopefully the taper will help.

    Hi AR, I am worried that you may not make it. But you do seem to have a dogged determination that is really quite admirableimage

    I am keeping my fingers crossed for both of you. Thanks for the heads up on the schedule BW I will have a look at that.

    My training is going well thanks. I run early morning as it is the only chance I really get with family and work. Sometimes means I don't get the best out of a session. But, that is the way it is, so it's just a case of getting on with it ;0)

    Ran the Tay Ten on Sunday last and came in on 68:39, which is not to your guys standards I guess?I think I could have got a bit better but my legs were feeling a bit tired from a heavy week and the wind and terrain over a few miles stole some from me...I am down for the St Andrews HM this weekend but I think I may drop that for a LSR which I think will be more beneficial for me, plus probably keep me out the doghouse!

    Look forward to hearing how you are getting on soon guys image

  • What a pair we are AR. Have to think positively pal. The no running taper week has actually felt good - mentally and physically - and I say trust in the training and our strength.



    My confidence has risen and while I'm going for more acupuncture this morning I'm not 100% sure it's nec. Can only help though and have various coping strategies for the day. I love the LM and am determined to enjoy it come what may.



    Thanks for you good wishes NB and totally get the family/ running quandaries - with work as well I've got some serious debts to repay to my long suffering clan from Sunday afternoon.



    Will let you know how I get on. Here's to two great, relatively painless runs. Let's do it!
  • Also-ranAlso-ran ✭✭✭

    Good positive vibes BW!  Today I folded. I was on an elliptical trainer eyeing up the empty treadmills, and 'treated' myself to 3 miles. A couple very slow, and then 1 very easy. Aches and pains were more than bearable so quit while I was ahead, and got back for a round of ice and carb loading. 

    All the best for Sunday

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi AR & BW, All the best for Sunday and hope you have a great run!

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