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My #asics262 Journey to Paris: Sub-5 Gareth
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Sam: Hiya. More chance to reply now. I hope your time in Devon was nice. The weather here has been awful. It hasn’t stopped raining today and I’m not sure we’ve had any daylight.
I was concerned that I am running at the higher end of my pacing. I’m not sure why. I do find it hard to slow down - even with the Garmin. I’m not sure how I can sustain that for long periods of time. I to fluctuate during the mile. Yesterday when I was supposed to be running at 9:34/mi (10k pace) I found myself running at 9:25 on some parts of the track through to 9:50 on other parts of the track. I struggle to keep it and recognise the pace - of course I assume going up and down little hills has bearing on this sort of thing. The trotting track isn’t level and has raised curves. Still - the average paces yesterday were:
1st Mile Jog: 10:15/mi
2nd Mile (10k pace): 9:20/mi
3rd Mile (10k pace): 9:24/mi
4th Mile (10k pace): 9:26/mi
5th Mile (Jog): 10:23/mi
So a bit quicker than what I was supposed to me. Not sure whether that is a good thing or a bad thing.
I don’t mind running the high volume at the end of the week although last week it did worry me as I was ill so didn’t hit my target mileage. The extra park run added a bit but still ~7 miles short of target.
The hamstring is okay at the moment. It does ache but not an injury style ache. I am still icing and massaging and it’s doing the trick. I didn’t irritate it on Saturday. Maybe it’s the distances that irritate it and not the speed (despite my stride being longer). I’m stretching it more as well.
I am happily drinking 600ml of milk in one sitting.
Hope everyone and a good evening last night and a good day. My training tomorrow is Power Circuits - so plenty of core work - planks, glute work, crunches, burpees, etc. Muscle fatigue here we come.
Hi Welshgje, looks like the training is going well. Im really glad they have a sub 5 runner this year as it is bringing up some really interesting points, Like the distance and speed of the long run in comparison to other training plans..I bought P&D after reading about it here and although its a really interesting read. I dont think I would be able to follow the plans. Maybe one day.
So not long now for me before i start this plan, just another couple of easy runs for me and I will start on Monday.
Have you followed a plan before for any of your other races and if so which ones.
Enjoy the circuits, sounds painfull though
Morning BTGS - yes it's going okay at the moment. Pacing is still an issue as I seem to be going too fast. I'm reading Mo Farah's autobiography at the moment and he says that knowing your pace is tough but eventually you learn to feel what you should be running and what each pace will feel like. I'm depending on my watch at the moment to help me. Just need to sit down and learn to program the thing properly.
What is P&D?
Have I followed a plan? No not at all. The only plan I tried once was Insanity - the fitness plan. I managed a few days but got bored of it. Did it work? No idea. I don't think I stayed on it for long enough. I didn't buy it so it wasn't a waste of money.
As for circuits - Thursday session is quite tough and is called 'Power Circuits' as it concentrates on pushing you a bit. Sunday is nice - 'Simple Circuits' - it's more for beginners and less on the 'power' element'. Tuesday is 'Traditional Circuits' - again a lot quicker and tougher than Sunday but not as bad as Thursday.
I was going to all three sessions in my off-running time but then Asics came along. I'm glad Sam let me keep one session a week in there. I really enjoy them.
Not long now then until you start the plan. The first three weeks are on here so hopefully you will get through them. I'm finding it nice following the plan. Luckily I am on school holidays at the moment so it's been okay running during the day. Next week I go back to work so schedules and lifestyle will have to change a little bit. Good luck to you.
P&D, yes sorry for using abreviations, guilty of something that I find quite annoying when done by others. Its short for Pfitzinger and Douglas, they have a very popular book called Advanced Marathoning. Sam mentioned them in her reply to Seren Nos about how your training plan is different to those for elites and faster runners. I dont have it with me as I,m at my inlaws but it has a few training plans.The first one peaks at 55miles a week and then I think its 75 or something and then theres another if thats not enough weekly mileage for you. I guesse the clue's in the name. There's a thread on here devoted to it.
Its a good read but save your money until youve completed Paris. After all you have your own Coach, Nutritionist,and Physiotherapist at hand, I'm guessing even Mo Farah had to wait a few years for that.
Insanity is that one of those 90 day ones wher you start of either Skinny/Fat and by the end of it your supposed to be ripped like a hollywood action hero?
The circuits sound quite interesting I havent done any since school. For Madrid i am going to incorporate some kind of strenght/core work as its something I always skip.
Yes training during the holidays is great, Back to reality soon enough though.
hi Gareth, don't worry about the pace fluctuating during a rep - the Garmin will go all over the place during the mile itself - as you saw - but it's the overall pace for the mile that we're looking at - so yes, yours were a bit quicker than your current 10k pace of 9.34... but your parkrun PB of the other day suggests a potential 10k time of 58.13 which is 9.22 pace - almost exactly what you averaged!
I'd like to leave the pace review until the end of week 4 if that's OK with you? Try to stick to them but don't break your back doing it, and remember the descriptions that go with each pace guideline! I want to have enough data to get a clear idea of what a steady run is for you, what an easy run is etc before changing the guidelines. There's really no risk in going too slow at this point but definitely a risk of going too fast.
Just one thing: I have your week 2 mileage down as 7.5 miles - just the 4.4 mile run and the parkrun. You said you were 7 miles down from the target total - so did I miss something?
Thanks.
Oh and I've revised weeks 7 and 8 to accommodate your Longleat 10k.
Sam: I have a feeling the parkrun was a one off. I doubt I could sustain that over 10K - but who knows. I didn't think I'd get faster for the 5K so hey ho. I might do this Saturday's parkrun as well (if you think it would benefit me) - but it depends on whether it will affect Sunday's long run. I'm also out with friends on Friday night so it might be a late one.
No need to review the pace ever
Still upset at being classed as a non-elite athlete
hahahahha
I'll check my week 2 mileage. I think my maths was wrong as I didn't get out like I should have.
Have booked into the Longleat 10K on February 9th. Looking forward. Should have a PB if chased by the lions.
Hi Gareth,
Skimmed would be best for you, very happy with this! 600ml in one.
I will message you so I can get your number if that is ok as I really think we need to increase overall intake. As a start would you have porridge or another cereal with skimmed milk (continue to have your pint when you need after long runs) and perhaps add a piece of fruit to this breakfast as well?
Do you usually run after you evening meal?
What do you normally eat before races? It would be useful to start eating the same breakfast (and portion of this breakfast) you will eat on April 6th before all races leading up to the marathon....starting with Longleat
Evening Ruth - I have not had anything other than skimmed milk for the past 5/6 years. I love the stuff but admit I don't drink enough of it. 600ml was taken on board after circuits this evening.
I'm happy to have cereal for breakfast. I've just bought some fruit and fibre ready for the new school term. I'm happy to have porridge as well sometimes. It's what I generally eat before a race. I can add a piece of fruit as well. It will probably be a banana as that is what I enjoy the most.
As for when I run - it depends on my schedule. It changes and I cannot tie it down to when I run/eat. I try and run before my evening meal - especially the shorter ones. For the purpose of asics262 I will run when I am told and if you advise a certain way then that is what I shall do.
Before the Swansea 10k I had a pot of 'Oat So Simple' porridge. The same before the Cardiff Half, but I also had a banana and a Lucozade energy drink an hour before the run. I supplemented with gels during the half marathon as well.
What portions do you recommend? The one on the box is usually 30g.
Hi,
I found that Chinese the night before and porridge an hour before on the day really helped. I'm not sure how the Chinese food helped apart from the carbs and protein but I find porridge kept me off the energy gels until the half way point. Then at mile 20 I learned that energy gels were upsetting my stomach and stuck to the jaffa cakes and jelly beans provided at the water stations for topping up nutrition. I don't use portion sizes - I think in my head I cook for about 6 people! Oops!
Don't worry Gareth, I wouldn't expect you to be able to keep up your 5km pace for 10km! What I meant was that your 5km time PREDICTED a 10k time with a 9.22 pace. Your pace in the 5km was nearer 9 min miling
Thanks Sam. I bet you must be tearing your hair out with my novice questions
I must learn to interpret the lingo better 
Have a good weekend.
Gareth
No problem at all Gareth, that's what I'm here for. And be proud of that 5km pace - weather pending, I think you'll have a cracking 10k at Longleat
Afternoon everyone. Week 3 comes to an end so here are my stats for the week.
Here are my averages and distances for this week:
Monday 30th December
Tuesday 31st December
Thursday 2nd January
Friday 3rd January
Sunday 5th January
In other news, I've made a couple of changes to my diet.
Breakfast is now cereals and a piece of fruit. I am on Kellogs Fruit and Fibre followed by a banana.
Any run is now followed by 600ml of skimmed milk. No matter how long or short the run I drink it once I get back.
In our weekly shop - we have taken out any buscuits. These are treats only now. More water has been ordered for school. Brynaman Tap water is fine for at home - and comes from the brecon carreg so it's lovely.
I also tried out a gel today during my long run. Between 8 and 9 miles I took on board a SiS Go Isotonic Evergy blackcurrant flavour gel. It says you can take three an hour but I wanted to try them out first. I have no idea whether it made a difference.
I'll post my week 4 schedule later today.
Three gels an hour is a lot- but then they are trying to sell them! The first time I tried a SIS gel- I got it all over my face and hands- if you managed to avoid that pitfall you are onto a good start. I gave up on Gels a while ago, as I couldn't get a whole one down "in one", and running with an open Gel packet is not good for the finish line photo- coming over the line covered in something that looks like purple wallpaper paste is not a good image!
I use clif shot blocks- the packets are still hellish to open, but they are a fundamentally less messy affair, and you can take a smaller "dose" more often.
Glad to hear that week 3 has gone well.
Bet you never thought when you started running that you would be covering 11 miles just for a training run.No medal, t-shirt cuddly toy etc.
Also good to hear that you are already trying out gels on the longer run. Im sure Ruth will be able to give you plenty of info here.Triacilitt yep a gel every 20 mins does sound excessive, A five hour marathon would mean 14 gels. You would need a rucksack never mind a belt to carry them.
I started the plan today, a day early to fit in with travelling midweek so 3 miles easy for me this morning
great breakdown of the week .and good news on the diet changes.,.all looking good.can't believe its been 3 weeks already
tricialitt: I know what you mean about opening them whilst running and getting them everywhere. I seem to have it sussed and have had no accidents as yet. I think I could take two an hour but not sure. One step at a time. As long as they do not contain caffeine then I'm okay with them. I cannot take the caffeine ones.
btgs: Thank you and congratulations on getting your plan underway. The longest training run I have ever completed was 10.5 miles when training for the Cardiff Half back in October. Even after taking two weeks off and starting again, I have not been running more than 10K at any one time. Today was the most I have run in a while - it felt good and I felt strong (actually ran more than I should have). I could have done more - but once I stopped my legs turned to lead and that was it. No restart.
Easier week next week. No long run in the timetable. I'll put the timetable up in a mo.
seren nos: Thank you. The diet changes will hopefully make a massive difference. The only thing is that when I came back from the run (and after shower) I ate 4 halves of a bean toasted sandwich. That's 4 slices of bread all stacked with beans and toasted in a sarnie maker. They were lovely.
Tea this evening was a cooked dinner followed by some caramel ice cream.
3 weeks already - yes indeed. I was saying the same to James yesterday.
Week 4 Timetable
Ok here it is all you followers. The week 4 timetable. I think Sam has been kind this week with two miles less on the clock. Week 3 was 23M, Week 4 is 21 (all approx).
So here you go. Sam's pace guidelines can be found earlier in the thread:
So no long run next week. I wonder why? Sam?
Hi Ruth - not sure where the best way is to contact you but I thought I'd let you know that I go back to work tomorrow so my timetable might be easier to plan for food wise.
You may have read that I've added a piece of fruit to my breakfast. I usually have a yogurt tipped over a banana for break.
Lunchtime is sometimes a £3.00 meal deal from Tesco, a baguette from the local bakery, left over food from the night before etc etc.
Home time is the worst - I get hungry.
Hi Ruth - we have no porridge in at the moment so can I stick to fruit and fibre in the mornings as I will not be running until the evenings. I have a parkrun this Saturday, as you noted, so will get some in ready for that morning.
I will indeed hold of gels. The SiS ones are the ones I found to work during the half marathon and the maxigel ones. As long as there is no caffeine in there.
I will indeed post my diet for you in open forum
Immunity - okay during term time. What generally happens (as James might agree) is I work hard during the term then as we wind down at the start of the holidays I get ill - a cold etc. I'm not generally ill.
Evening all - Week 4 Day 1 started with a 4 mile easy run. I actually ran a bit less and clocked 3.73 miles as I was passing the house and it started raining again. I copped out the extra .27 of a mile.
Just a quick question - do people want me to start noting down my splits for each mile or are they happy with just average pace? Let me know. I'm happy to do it - but it takes longer.
My average pace today was: 10:24/mi which is a litte bit faster than the easy pace I was supposed to do of 10:30/mi - 11:30/mi
If its not banana splits I,m not interested.
No seriously average pace is fine for me.
So I have crammed my 1st three runs in this week. Not ideal I know and this will be the only time i am doing it.Will leave the long run till Sunday and then .take a more sensible approach.
I have been trying to get used to pacing again, first runs have been a bit erratic but hopefully shouldnt take to long to adjust.
Have fun with the circuits tonight
btgs: Evening. Thanks for commenting on pace notes. Easier for me if I log my average pace.
Well done on your 1st three runs. My week runs from a Monday to a Sunday so only 1 done this week so far. I have one tomorrow.
The pacing was an issue for me at the start, but I seem to have found what feels best when I am running 10:30 - It seems to just develop and you remember.
Circuits: Right - honesty box time. I didn't go. I wasn't in the right frame of mind for it. No excuse, no reason - just wasn't in my head. Sorry everyone who reads this. Maybe I need Victor on board now. LOL.
Hi Gareth! Congrats, your training seems to be going really well!!!! I have to say I had the same doubts as you on today's schedule (6M of 1M jog, then 5 x 1km at between 5-10km speed (approx 5:20-5.30 per rep) with 3 min jog recoveries, then 1M jog) and I had to ask Sam for clarification
How are you feeling? I am feeling really good although today my legs were very stiff but tomorrow is rest day 
if its an interval session type run then i love to see the splits.,.... it helps to see if you went off too fast and faded or if you managed them ok
mine are usually slightly higher for the middle few intervals etc
Hi Seren - there was a run on Sunday where had to run the second half faster than the first half. The splits were pretty good. I've put them here for your perusal:
1st Half: 11:17 11:24 11:05 11:05 11:04 11:18 2nd Half: 10:27 10:24 10:00 9:58 9:54 So I was happy with them.Hi all!
Yep I agree with Seren that seeing splits is useful if it's some kind of 'quality' session. By that I mean something that isn't just an easy or steady run and has some kind of pace requirement. Eg. the mile reps. Or, indeed, the slow start, faster finish long run that you've posted splits for above.
I'm sure we'll be increasing your pace guidelines soon, Gareth. It's evident that you are working at the higher end, if not above, the guidelines in each bracket. Do you feel that they could be quicker? If we change them, we can either do it beginning week 5 or leave till after Longleat?
There's no long run this week - I think it's important to take breaks from weekly long runs - especially for someone who wasn't doing weekly long runs (or even much running at all in your case, since you had switched to circuit training) immediately prior to starting a marathon build-up.
One more thing: I might be wrong, but I'm not sure Ruth meant that you should drink a pint of milk after each and every run you do...? It seems a bit excessive to me. Definitely after long runs, and hard interval sessions, but every run seems a bit much to me. Ruth??
One of our teachers here told me that the milk was used to reduce the amount of lactic acid in the body. Swansea City Youth boys are told to drink a lot of milk after every training session.
I actually like milk so it's not a problem.
As for upping the speed - I don't know. I'm happy to try from week 5. I don't want to kill myself running. You are right though - I had stopped running to build up on my core over the winter. I don't feel it's been a problem though as it has helped my strength and stamina.
Enjoying so far, just didn't have the energy yesterday after a tough day in work.
I have severe doubts that milk can help reduce the amount of lactic acid in the body...! In fact, lactic acid is continuously recycled through metabolism, so it's not as if there is a 'set amount' in the body anyway. Sounds like an urban myth to me