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My #asics262 Journey to Paris: Sub 4 James
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That's interesting,, for me 3:45 for London GFA, 3:35 for BQ, though I'm suspicious that by thr time I'm near a BQ that goal post may have moved again, as London did this year. It was always a plan to go for London GFA this spring, but I set that when it was still 3:50, that said, shorter races at the moment say 3:45 is achievable, so im taking a leap of faith. I'm fR from a 3:30, but know Minni from her mentoring in RW forum 6 last year
Hi James, you say you need to lose some weight, how tall/heavy are you now? Adey did a great job last year on shedding some unwanted baggage. I think when you start logging your food diary it leaves you with no place to hide!
Ooh, when are the training plans being revealed, think the plan should start tomorrow?I've still not entered a Spring Mara. In two minds whether to do Manc or not, or a later one, but I;ve got a place in Berlin in Autumn....
James, I doubt Dr R would have looked quite so smart had he tried getting a buggy out of the car first... I'm with you on the idea of making that a winter Olympic event though
Sorry if you've already discussed this on another thread somewhere but as well as your marathon plan I'd also be interested in your running history and PBs at other distances prior to this Asics thing.
Afternoon Xyloid, hope you're well. Currently i'm weighing in around 80kg and I am 5'10. Would ideally like to be around the 77/76 mark. One of my fellow boot campers Christina, has put me onto an app called myfitnesspal. As you say, logging your food will make it very difficult not to easily see where the unwanted calories come from.
Keeping a log during the Xmas period should be a good way of controlling the portion size!
EastEndJogger, afternoon
Welcome to the thread. I was originally under the impression that the plans were starting tomorrow. Talking to Sam yesterday, I think it may be a couple more days before we actually get them. Will post them up as soon as I get them.
What time are you aiming for?
XX1, good to hear from you.
5km - 22.06
10km - 45.14
Half Marathon - 1.46
IM70.3 - 6.26
I will be looking to shave some minutes off both the 10K and HM over the next few months. Regrettably, I won't be racing in the Sussex Coast HM in March, Sam has advice it is too close to Paris, the course is also brutal.
As you may have gathered from my discussion over the last few days, weight management is a hot topic. I am a lover of food and enjoy cooking etc, but now need to look for some ways to shed the lbs.
We had a great day yesterday, very well looked after by Asics and RW. Looking forward to getting the plans shortly.
What are your current PBs?
J
BoDuke: Just opened it up not he iPhone, looks amazing but think I need to read the instructions first! Not something I am renowned for doing.
James - With that sort of pace for your HM, ie approx 8mmp, you should have no prob holding 9.06 pace for a sub4 mara. I ran my first sub4 at 9.00 mmp, knowing I'd have about 3mins in the bank towards the end, which I needed as I came to a stop at mile 23 water station. Re focused and carried on slower, but finished in 3:59:12, it's a mental thing
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Saturday the 15th of December will truly be a day to remember for all the right reasons.
An early start on a bright and clear morning seemed to be the perfect beginning. I think I was the only person on the train leaving the local station at 7:50am. A commuter free journey into London is a treat!
Meeting Malcolm at London Bridge gave me a chance to pick a real pro’s brains! It was a quick journey across town to the Asics flagship store on Oxford Street. Empty pavements in December, not something I’m used to but then again it is just coming up to 9am.
The Runners World and Asics Team were already settled in and ready to receive us. Roger, Isabel and Gareth arrived shortly after. Andrea, Katie, Gemma, Claire and Tom had the schedule sorted and ready to roll. The team was assembled we were ready to begin. James, the store manager, was incredibly helpful at guiding us through the store. Isabel was treated to the women’s department all on her own. I even think she finished shopping before the men, unheard of. I know that doesn’t normally happen on my shopping outings with Mrs C. The store was easy to navigate and the Autumn and Winter kit was beckoning us in. Main colours this season, Orange, Green and Blue. Not for the faint hearted. The kit will sure show up on the dark winter mornings and evenings! Before I had a chance to truly get stuck in, I was whisked d for my foot and gait analysis. That is when the learning really started.
I was well looked after by Libby form the Asics store, her knowledge and understanding of the process was incredible. The 3D foot mapping was incredible. A few minutes to generate precise foot measurements that would enable the shoe to fit like a glove, and it did eventually…
Over the past year, after a ‘light touch’ gait analysis, I had been wearing neutral shoes, not Asics. However, the analysis showed that I was over pronating on my right foot quite considerably. In recent months I was getting some soreness on my right foot, Libby said this was very likely down to the fact that my foot was rolling in and needed additional support. After a few test pairs, one of which was so bright I’d never need wear a head torch again, I settled with the Asics Kayano 20. A brilliant shoe. Light but with enough cushioning and support to get me through 26.2 miles and plenty more miles in the build up. Libby, thank you. Your knowledge and advice could be a game changer!
Back to the shop floor, time to gather the basics. Shorts, baselayers, shirts and of course socks! Shortly, after picking out a few items in was time for the body mass scan…
Andrew, another font of knowledge, guided me through the process and the huge array of numbers that soon presented themselves. The stand on and grip Tanita body scanner was a serious bit of kit. I don’t think I carry to much extra baggage but the numbers were higher in some areas that I would have liked. 19% Fat was quite a lot higher than I had been previously whilst training for IM70.3. I had spent 4 months around the 16% mark. The training intensity had decreased over the summer months, that’s what I keep telling myself. My love of food and real ale may have something to do with it. As of today, the diet is now being recorded. Keep asking me for updates, it will keep me focused! Other than that, the experience was great. Andrew had lots of advice to lose the kgs and ensure a good racing weight.
Time to meet my coach Sam. A great chat, we reviewed my current weekly activities and discussed what would work and what might need to be changed. Luckily the cycling stays, this is a big part of my life as well as the running. It has also kept me injury free in recent years. Touch wood. The plan will be arriving with me in the nex
The plan will be arriving with me in the next day or so. Stay tuned. Sam has asked for a section of the pan to go up at a time, let me know what you think.
After we had met with all out coaches, it was time to wrap up. But not before the photo shoot… Pretty painless, with some great pics that are now surfacing on Twitter! Some are taken by us, see if you can spot which. Shouldn’t bee too hard.
That was the day that was. An incredible experience and a chance to meet a great team. I will be retelling this story more than once this week!
Thank you to Asics and all the store staff, led by James. A special thank you to Andrea, Katie, Gemma Claire and Tom for such a great experience.
Stay in touch.
Ps. I haven’t had much time to proofread this so please excuse and horrific grammatical errors and spellings!
Hi James, you are swifter on your feet than me (as are many other runners
)... My PBs are 5K - 23:36, 10K - 48:17, and HM - 1:49... I've seen it mentioned, on these forums, that marathon time can be calculated as (HM time x 2) + either 20 mins or 30 mins... So for me, for a first marathon, sub-4 would be quite optimistic... But I guess I'd get a better idea after starting the training and giving some of those longer runs a stab... When you had the gait analysis was there any discussion about what causes over pronation and any other methods of minimising it other than choice of running shoe? There's a lot to be said for those bright colours when fitting in an early morning or late evening run at this time of year... I'm currently favouring fluorescent yellow, lime green, and orange 
Afternoon XX1 - I am happy with my pace and times over the shorter distances, it is all a question of building the endurance for 26.2miles. I am going try and get another HM in over Jan, fairly certain I can do something with that time. From then, it is all going to be about getting the longer, slower paced runs in. I am sure Sam will have some guidance on that shortly.
My over pronating right foot... not too much discussion other than my right little toe slightly sticks out. This therefore leads to the ankle dropping in slightly. I am not sure whether there is something that can be done about this? I did injure my foot in 2003, breaking a couple of bones in my foot. This could have had an impact.
The bright colours will definitely enable me to be seen...from space.
J
Simon62w - thank you for your note. The longer slow pace runs are going to give me a good indication on the need for those minutes in the bank. If all goes well, I would like to think that I can hold a 9.06 mmp.
In June, during IM70.3, I really didn't even think I would finish the bike stage at Wimbleball. It seems you can talk yourself out of that frame of mind. Again, with the longer runs, I need to get back in that zone to know what it feels like. Then be able to get passed it.
J
Hey James
Glad the weekend went well. Your times are certainly a good base for a sub 4hours, and with the legend that is Sam Murphy on your back you may be suprised of what you can achieve.
There do seem to be a few doing Bath Half, myself and Mrs Reg included. If you want to do it and can get the go ahead I know of a charity (that I am running for) that has a place left.
Hello everyone on the sub 4 forum... not a good start from me. Just lost the entire post I just wrote, outlining James programme, pacing and all that. I must be a bit forum rusty
.
OK so here goes again:
I met with all my 3 runners on Saturday to get all the essential info I need to formulate their programmes - what their daily/weekly routines are like, when they run, where, what surface, who with etc. That helps me ensure the programme can be easily achieved within their lifestyle rather than trying to shoehorn them into something that doesn't fit.
I also wanted to look at what they'd achieved in training and racing, to ensure the goal is realistic. So here's what James PB paces say about his marathon potential:
James Marathon prediction from time
5k: 22.06 3.35
10k: 45.41 3.34
Half: 1.46 3.43
I'm quite happy with these, as they suggest sub 4 is comfortably achievable. Though as with Gareth (sub-5), the longer the race, the slower the predicted potential.This is very common with newer runners, who haven't built a huge endurance base. (Incidentally, all three of my runners are marathon virgins- a first for me as Asics Target 262 Coach). I will be looking to get James's weekly mileage up a bit, and also increase consistency and focus more on running, less on the other two triathlon disciplines!
I based James's paces on his half marathon (most realistic, in terms of the goal we are working towards). This means they will be faster than for someone who is aiming to just duck under 4 hours. Always go by your own paces, or if you don't know them,then go by the descriptions given for how each pace should feel.
Training pace guidelines
Very Easy 9.30-10.15 Should feel as if you could do this all day. Effortless!
Easy 8.30-9.30 Should feel comfortable. Can chat quite easily.
Steady 8-8.30 Still comfortable but slightly more breathless and less chatty!
Threshold pace 7.25-7.35 Challenging but controlled effort. Can get short phrases out. Breathing should be hard but controlled, not ragged
Speedwork 6.15-7.05 min mile depending on length of rep. Tough. One-word answers only!
Current HMP 8.05
Current 10k pace 7.21
Current 5km pace 7.07
Current 1 mile pace 6.22 (giving speedwork guideline of 6.15-7.05 min/miling, depending on length of rep)
Marathon goal pace 9.05.
For each session, these paces are the reference James will use... in fact, he's already started with an easy run today!
Sam, many thanks for this. It looks great and the pace guidelines didn't seem too intimidating! I would be over the moon to run the marathon at a 9:05mmp.
Today I took and easy run of 4M @ 9:30mmp, felt good, only thing hindering me was the torrential rain and head on wind.
Not surprisingly I will be reducing my time in the saddle. Will still keep some space for the bike now and again.
The first 4 weeks will be posted below shortly, just need to rescue the roast chicken.
So here we go, fasten your seat belts - Weeks 1-4
Any changes I make along the way (after consulting Sam), I will post as and when.
WEEK ONE w/c 16 Dec (approx 23M)
Mon 4M easy
Tue 5M of 1M jog, then 4-5 x 800m at between 5-10k pace with three minute jog recoveries, then 1M Wed REST
Thu SWIM OR CYCLE
Fri 4M steady
Sat REST
Sun 10M very easy
WEEK TWO w/c 23 Dec (approx 27M)
Mon SWIM OR CYCLE
Tue 5M of 1M jog, then 10 x 200m (or 45 secs if no track access) close to mile pace (each rep in approx 48-50 secs), with 200m in 90 second jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed REST (after all, it is Christmas!)
Thu 5M of 1M jog, then 3M at half-marathon pace, then 1M jog
Fri 5M EASY
Sat Rest
Sun 12M very easy (ideally off-road, just on grass/trail is fine)
WEEK THREE w/c 30 Dec (approx 30M)
Mon SWIM OR CYCLE
Tue 6M of 1M jog, then 3 x 1M or 1600m at 10km pace (approx 7.20), with 400m in 3 minutes jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed REST
Thu 6M easy
Fri 5M progression run – starting at slower than 9 minute miles and each mile faster with last two miles above 8 min mile pace.
Sat REST
Sun 13M (First 7M very easy, last 6M easy)
WEEK FOUR (w/c 6 Jan) (approx 24M)
Mon 6M easy
Tue CYCLE
Wed 6M of 1M jog, then 5 x 1000m at between 5-10km speed (approx 4mins 30 secs), with 2min30 secs jog recoveries, 1M jog
Thu CYCLE OR REST
Fri 5M alternating 9.3 and 8.30 min miles
Sat REST
Sun Bromley 10k race (plus w-up & cooldown) (7M)
If you have any questions please do ask. If I can't answer, I will find someone who can!
J
interesting to see what distances are going for each of the above paces.......i thought the schedule begins this week.....any news on this weeks training or have I missed it.
i would love to get a 5k pace nears your James....but i can see why Sam is being cautious many people take a few marathons to get a marathon time to reflect their half and faster times........
James
this looks a lot different from what you get with the asics plan, the joys of it being custom made!
as my race times are pretty similar to yours, I might be following this plan quite closely! That said, tonight's run was scuppered by time spent at our new house chatting to the plumber about what needs doing... A lot apparently!
James - Glad to see Sam has let you still do some cycling. Being a keen cyclist too, the one thing I found helpful after training for a 250m charity bike ride, was a 2-3hr lsr, is still a relative short time compared to a 9-10hr bike ride.
Hi Seren, I think Sam's plan looks achievable but will def make me work to move up to the marathon distance.
Under no illusion that my marathon race pace this time will not necessarily directly reflect 10k or HM. Hopefully, I won't be disappointed.
Week 1 - 4 is on page 4. Today started with a easy 4M at 9:30mmp.
J
Ruffles - the joys of moving into a new house. Hopefully it's nothing to major, I bet you could do without any surprises just before Christmas.
The plan looks great. Would be good if you followed it relatively closely and let me know how it goes.
Today's 4M was good going but the weather was particularly grim!
J
sorry missed it on refresh......looks good.so only running 4 days a week...what kind of distance are you allowed to cycle on cycling days........( I'm still cycling once a week at the moment as well)
with your 10k race...it only allows .8 of a mile for warm up / cool down. doesn't seem a lot to me.what is the split for this
Evening Reg, hope you're well. Had a great day on Sat, as you can probably see in the photos on Twitter. Nicely cheesy.
Thanks for the offer of Bath half. I am now doing the Race Your Pace HM at the end Feb, another HM 2 weeks later may be a bit of overload. Will check with the powers that be.
Plans look great. Nice of Sam to give us Xmas day off!
J
Hold the boat, you got Christmas Day off?!
That's shocking! Steve has me doing some major cross training!
It starts being woken up at the crack of dawn to the sound of noisy children jumping on you then down the stairs at whatever un-Godly hour it is to rush down half a breakfast and get buried in wrapping paper. After that it's a food and drink marathon followed by a 10 mile hike in the rain and death by charades.
You have it real lucky pal!
Great to see the start of the plan online. I'm just wondering, if training goes well, will you aim for sub-3hr50mins? And well done for your first run in this miserable weather. Still, I always like to look on the bright side, at least it's not icy!
Morning, just got back from wk1 d2 - Interval session - didn't settle in to a good pace on the first fast intervals, got it sorted by the third was running around 7:20mmp then the 3 minute recovery jog.
Simon62w - 250m in the saddle...ugh...I can't imagine how that felt. My longest ride to date was just under 100m. That was uncomfortable!
Seren - on an average cycle day I probably clock about 30m on a weekday. On a longer Sunday cycle it is between 60-70m. That is obviously on a road bike. If it was on the mtb it would be around the 20m depending on the route. What distances are you covering on your weekly cycle? Not sure about the break down of the 10k warm up/ cool down. Looking at it .8 is pretty short, I am sure I can use my creativity with that.
Malcs - ha ha ha ha ha, that is some serious cross training, enough to frighten the life out of any hardened endurance athlete! Luckily my boys are still more interested in the boxes that everything comes in. I think this may be the last year we can wrap up and empty Amazon box.
EastEndJogger - Until I have a few lsr under my belt, I think it is too difficult to judge if I could keep pace for sub3:50. As Seren mentions earlier, it is all too easy for a first timer to get carried away based on their HM and 10K pace.
J
james mine vary...some weeks if i'm doing a running race the bike will just be 30 miles.....usually more like 50/60.... but once a month I do 120/130 miles.....just ticking over for winter whilst i concentrate on my running again
because my eldest was hungover this morning before college we all ended up having a full cooked breakfast so i will not be running till this afternoon or i will be sick