Simon Coaching - velloo

I'm about to start coaching forum member velloo and there were a few suggestions that we start a thread similar to the popular Moraghan/Stevie G one on here. So, here it is.

We've been in "talks" already, and I've got plenty of ideas, but I'll wait until velloo has posted with a brief introduction before I start rambling.

Hope you all enjoy and feel free to chip in.



  • It'll be like Moraghan/Stevie G but much slower and with booze.


  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    If there's booze can I pull up a chair?image

  • Pringles ??  image

  • All sorts of jumpers

  • Will there be any running or is it all beer and Pringles.?

  • Sedward looks like he means business

  • Gin and frazzles all round.

    The aim of this training is to improve my 10k times (and other distances under HM) and hopefully those of other people targetting those distances.

    I've just finished the P&D up to 55miles a week training and the 5 week recovery plan. Prior to that I ran approx 40 miles a week sometimes quite a bit less. Started running in 2005 at a low level, and until joining a club in 2011 ran approx 20 miles a week and didn't race much.

    I'm FV40, 106lbs (that will go up over Xmas) and 5.2'.

    PBs 5k: 18.5x, 10k: 39.4x, HM 1.26xx

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    I'm V40, 5'2 and I'm targeting your weight... image

  • I weighed less before I started running, maybe it's all those frazzles.

  • 7.5 stones seems very light. But then 5 feet 2 seems very short


  • Okay, so Veloo is on the low side of ideal healthy weight. Great for a runner. 

  • Still short though image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    I can't get under 115lb. How do you do it? And the more I train the hungrier I am. ????

  • Minni I'm probably a smaller build than you, I don't have much in the way of muscle either. I've been roughly the same weight for 20 years. I did try to drop weight for the marathon but couldn't shift much more than 1lb. 

  • Haha Sedward, you are definitely annoying but are there two of you?
    Looking forward to the thread, not getting involved in all this weight talk, I’ve met Minni and she looks like a proper skinny runner to me!  

    Velloo – it looks like your 10k PB is the softest, though not massively out of sync and your HM PB is your strongest. Is it just a case of your HM and 5k times are more recent and you haven’t raced a 10k for a while or do you have a weakness over 10k?

    Oh and mines a pint of Copper Dragon, Golden Pippin please……image

  • YD sadly the 10k is the most recent, but I've never really trained properly for that distance so I don't know if I'm crap at 10ks or just ill-prepared. That's why I want to focus on them. Best HM this year was 1.27xx. during marathon training but it was a much harder course. 

    Golden Pippin sounds nice. I need to get some Bruges Zot in for Christmas...

  • I'll look out for the Bruges Zot, always up for trying another tiple..........

    As for why you cant run 10k's as well as HM's I'll leave that up to coach.

  • wtf is 39.4? Is that 39 minutes and 24 seconds? 

  • 39.4x

    7.5 stone wtf is that? 

  • YD another Edinburgh tip, the off-licence with the best selection of beers is Cornelius on Easter Rd. 

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Velloo - which club are you in?

  • Yep, free booze with each PB!

    I think I prefer Simone to Sedward

    Racing weight is an interesting topic. I do think it's worth being cautious especially when losing weight - unless one is very overweight I don't it's worth trying to lose about 0.5lbs per week. This will help minimise muscle/strength loss and enable one to keep a close eye on the effects.

    YD, I don't think there's anything wrong with running HMs while doing 10ks, unless you want to make my job more difficult of courseimage

    So, velloo, let's begin with training paces. I expect at least some of these to change in the first few weeks as I get feedback from the sessions, but to start with we'll use these ranges:

    Recovery: 9:00+
    Easy: 9:00 - 7:40
    Steady: 7:40 - 7:10
    Sub-LT 7:10 - 6:45
    LT: 6:45 - 6:30
    Long Intervals: 6:00 - 5:50
    Short Intervals: 5:50 - 5:40
    Reps: 5:40 - 5:20

    You'll notice there's a bit of a gap there between LT and Long intervals, which is where your 5k/10k paces currently sit. I've left these out since the sessions we do at these paces will be based on a goal race pace, which is best determined closer to the day in question.

    For LT and slower the idea is that you will run according to how you feel on a particular day, but staying within the limits set. Obviously if a route is particularly hilly then you may need to adjust somewhat, but unless it's particularly challenging the slower end of the pace should suffice.

    For Long Intervals and faster, the pace will be set by me depending on the particulars of the session.

  • Scheduling

    You've just come off marathon training, and run a decent time. You've also been running for a few years and have some decent mileage under your belt. So, although you have a slight bias towards the shorter distances, I'm not concerned about your endurance and don't think a specific base phase is required. However, we'll keep the mileage at about 50 per week, cutting back as necessary depending on the intensity of the training and the need to recover of freshen up.

    Your main distance is going to be 10k, which for somebody running about 40 minutes is a bit faster than lactate threshold pace. For this reason, I think LT training should be the main focus of your training and will bring you the greatest gains, with VO2 max a secondary focus (we'll talk a bit more about this closer to the time, but there will be nothing shocking here).

    We'll nudge the LT up from below initially with plenty of running in the sub-LT pace zone, some of which will be included as part of longer runs.

    We'll then bring in runs in the LT zone alongside these. I know you're not a big fan of the longer runs at these paces, so (although a few will be necessary to get in peak shape) the majority will take the form of cruise intervals. For example:

    6 x 5' @ LT with 90" recovery.

    I actually prefer these to the classic 20 minute "tempo" runs anyway. You get more volume at the intensity without getting overly fatigued and if planned right they can form part of a mixed-pace longer run.

    However, before we get properly stuck into these sessions, I'd like to try something a bit different. For somebody that's been running a while and has already achieved good results, further benefits can often be brought about by a slight shift in training focus in the short term.

    So what I'd like to focus on initially is short, fast-paced repetitions (see "Reps" pace above) with decent recovery.

    For example:
    6 x 300m in 62" (about 5:30/mile) with 3' recovery.
    6 x 200m in 40" (about 5:20/mile) with 3' recovery

    These types of sessions will bring several benefits. You'll be able to practise good form, you'll get good fast twitch muscle fibre stimulus and other biomechanical developments, they will prepare you physically and mentally for the tougher interval sessions to come later on, and they'll make 5k and 10k paces more comfortable.

    And I'm confident they will be of particular benefit to you because you're coming off marathon training, where relatively slower paces have been the focus.

    We'll also spend the first few weeks of the schedule getting your long run distance and weekly mileage back to pre-marathon levels

    So, with all that said, here is your first week's schedule:

    Monday: 5m easy
    Tuesday: 2m progressive WU (start at easy pace, progress to sub-LT); 5' dynamic stretches; 5 x 300m in 62" with 3' recovery; 1m CD
    Wednesday: rest OR 1m recovery
    Thursday: 6-8m easy including strides
    Friday: 5-7m steady
    Saturday: rest
    Sunday: 13 miles easy

    So, nothing that different from the P&D recovery week you should have just completed. The long run is a bit longer and there's the first rep session.

    There's quite a lot here already, so I'll write more about strides another day. For now I'll just say do them: a) a mile or so into the run b) with good recovery (walk or jog is fine) c) for about 10 seconds each d) try and run with the best form possible

  • Radical Manimage

  • I'll post something sensible tomorrow…I'm in the middle of a night out.

  • Interesting thread.
  • Will be following with great interest as the times are very similar to mine image.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Very similar to mine as well so will be interested in how this progresses. 

  • Thanks Simon. I'll swap the days around to include a run on Saturday so I can be out in daylight. With the steady run I'll need to do a warm-up first as I can't go straight into those paces. Wasn't expecting to see such short reps so early, not sure I've ever done 300s so that will be interesting. 

    Ja5onW what's your training like at the moment?

  • WJHWJH ✭✭✭

    Will be following with interest too largely again because of similar times and pace zones! Good to see this thread up and running!

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