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Simon Coaching - velloo
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Build up hasn't started yet, damn injury. Started doing a bit now though, hoping to get going properly in the next couple of weeks so I can still run it.
You should do some track races, the 800 makes a 5k feel positively civilised!
velloo, I'm sure you'll make sub-19 a habit this year. On that note, how do you feel about getting in a fast 5k or parkrun before your next 10k?
TR, the 800 makes everything feel really really long, but you're right that it makes 5k pace feel like a jog - at least for the first few laps.
That's rotten luck, hope you manage to get some decent training in soon. Wasn't last year's marathon campaign bedevilled by injuries too?
Well today's session was a shock to the system.
4x200 in 40 secs, came out as 39, 41, 39, 39 with 90 secs recovery, these felt pretty good but I was running as fast as I could, followed by
4x400 in 85 secs, 83,84 then the fatigue in my legs really started to build 86, 86. Ouch!
x-post yeah I should do a parkrun before the next 10k.local one is flat but can be very windy.
Well done hitting those paces. What's the reasoning in running so quick for a lower volume than you might normally run when preparing for a 10k race?
Yes I missed last years Marathon with injury!
Well done on the session, velloo. The fact that you were starting to struggle at the end confirms those paces are right for you (another way of saying that that was meant to be a tough session).
TR, the majority of the interval sessions we're doing are more along the lines of what you'd expect for a 10k runner (such as the 6 x 1k done a couple of weeks back).
However, I think it's important not to neglect faster paces, regardless of your race distance, so some of the sessions include a few faster reps. It's certainly not an emphasis (I think those 200s are the fastest in seven weeks of this schedule).
And the 400s were at about VO2 max pace (what we're calling Short Interval pace - the pace velloo could maintain for 8 minutes, although I bet she doesn't believe that ...)
I certainly can't run at that pace for 8 minutes!
Haha, I bet you could, trust the coach......
Makes sense Simon, I have promised myself something similar during my Marathon campaign, it might just end up being more strides or surges during a general aerobic run, but I want to maintain some speed.
velloo, you knocked out a 5:57 at the end of a 5 miler, so I think 5:40 pace for just over 1 mile would be doable. Don't worry though, I won't be adding that to any sessions
TR, I think strides are probably enough for a marathon runner. A lot depends on whether you're dedicated solely to marathons or not. If you're planning on running some fast 5ks at a future date, then it makes sense to place more importance on staying in touch with speed.
I'm definitely getting fitter. Last night's 10m run with 7 at steady/MP felt quite comfortable, maybe it's because the wind died down yesterday but it felt easier than previously. Wind was back in force today so my easy pace run was almost backwards. I'm going to have to get up early to run tomorrow as there's no way I'll hit the paces once the forecast 42mph gusts hit, not so sure I'll fare too well in the 27mph gusts unless I cheat and run the session with the wind behind me...
Defeated by the wind today, the one downside of not having much ballast is getting smacked about by gusts, almost got blown off the track, which was slightly embarrassing as the local AC were out in force. One of their coaches decided to tell me I should be doing a different session which I thought was rather cheeky as he had no idea of my programme or even what distance I was training for, then he started going on about how great his under 17 boys were *whatever*. He really picked the wrong time as I'm feeling quite ill disposed towards teenage boys at the moment following a recent altercation of the sexist abuse kind when out running (I know all teenagers aren't the same, and collective punishment would be wrong...)
Anyway the session was meant to be long interval pace for 1600, 1200, 1000, 800, 400 but turned into long interval effort due the conditions, i'd like to try it again to see if I can actually hit the paces in better weather. Off to pilates now to calm down!
How bizarre that a trained coach would say that with absolutely no info on you!!
Great news that the steady runs are starting to feel more comfortable. It's just what we want to lead into a shift of focus from VO2 to LT stuff in the next week or two.
Yep, sometimes all you can do in the wind is just run "hard". No point trying to guess that you'll be x seconds slower. I'm very confident you'll be able to hit those paces anyway, but let's try and put that session in again in the near future.
Agree with DT, it's ridiculous to comment on a session in isolation. Especially that one which is certainly nothing radical.
I know, that's what I said to him. But some coaches have very odd ideas, one of our club coaches had his group doing 14 miles at HM pace as prep for an actual HM. The impossibility and daftness of this was lost on him.
I don't train with my club anymore. Mainly because of time limitations but also because the weekly interval session is just an everyone run as fast as you can for x minutes. Compared to what I do now, it used to leave me wiped out for a couple of days.
That is the most mental session I have come across!!
DT yes that's what interval sessions are like at my club too even when the coaches specify paces. Do you do all your training alone?
Yes since I developed some kind of clue about paces I decided every club run was too fast. I used to think intervals were meant to destroy you. I remember having a discussion with one of the clubs top runners and he told me he didn't really do the club nights as he found everyone ran the efforts way too hard and it left him too tired to train properly for a few days. I thought that was a very odd comment at the time. Now I'm fully with him! Even the long Sunday run turns into a progressive pace close to threshold.
I have trained 95% on my own since July now.
Sounds familiar! After Simon's sessions I've still got lots of energy left, although I'm not sure I'm capable of running a training session so fast it leaves me destroyed. My legs give up before lungs. On a positive note I've lost 1cm off my waist in the last month.
Love the 14m @ HMP
It is difficult to plan group sessions - especially with mixed ability groups. Planning ahead is an absolute must. They're much easier to manage on the track than on the road as well.
I have noticed that some people thrive off quite high intensity sessions year round. However, I've also noticed that nobody really every suffers from adding a bit more mileage or easy running into their schedule (within reason of course).
Will have to fix that ...
Do you think the fatigue was from doing two interval sessions last week? Good news is that's your last one for another two weeks. I think the effects of this recent batch will filter through in a couple of weeks and now is a good time to start focussing a bit more on LT.
It does look like Long Interval pace is a little ambitious for the longer reps, so I've increased it to 6:10/mile. That'll just mean you're not trying to hit unachievable targets.
So, parkrun this Saturday? Excited?
Well I've just run one of my slowest ever parkruns, don't have the time yet but it was about 19.30. It was pretty hard going in the wind but I shouldn't have been that slow. I'm running more, training harder and getting worse, splits 6.02, 6.16, 6.27, and the last little bit 6.00. It's an out and back course, first half wind was at my back, not that I noticed it helping!
velloo, try not to read too much into one outing and get disheartened. Your training paces have been picking up lately and your 5 mile PB a few weeks back was your second best age-graded performance so I personally am confident that you are actually improving and are not in too bad shape.
Also bear in mind that the last couple of weeks have been quite tough, and it's not as though we tapered or freshened up for today's run. And this is all a couple of months after injury problems
Those tough sessions will filter through - I know it sometimes feels like the payback should be more immediate.
What time were you expecting today? I was thinking about 19:10 given recent training volume and intensity, so I don't think 19:30 or so is too shocking - just looks like a bad day.
And what do you think it was that stopped you running any faster today? Tired legs? Breathing? Just generally feeling bad?
Not bad for a pw!
Unless my little bit of er, research, is way wide of the mark, I think velloo may have rather underestimated her performance today.
Good effort, velloo.
Actually visiting my cousin and his family up in that direction in a few weeks, so may run that very course myself if we don't hit the beer, wine or whisky (or possibly all three) too hard on the Friday night.
Apologies, looks like the initial results that were released have now been updated and velloo's time was closer to what she suspected.
My time was at least 2 seconds faster than recorded I know that for sure! My breathing is always fine, I can never get my legs to go fast enough to cause me to get out of breath. I find the way my body adapts (or doesn't) to training baffling - I was expecting something closer to 19.15 today. None of the paces I was running felt hard, but I couldn't push any more. On my 5k PB I finished seeing stars and crossed the line like a drunk, I certainly didn't run that hard today but I expected the paces to come easier. I don't really know what caused today's poor time, I haven't eaten properly for 2 days due to an upset stomach (but I know borderline anorexics who run well), I kept losing concentration and my pace dropped, but that's about it. I was really worried during my warm up, I got off the bike and my feet were so frozen I couldn't run above 8.30, they were flat and unresponsive, but once the race started I was ok, so I don't know.
BBB if it's a nice day the parkrun is great, sea views all the way. There's also lots of races in Edinburgh/lothians this time of year, the scottish athletics website has a good fixtures section, Holyrood Park and the Meadows are both nice places to run too.
Velloo, there seems to be 3/4 very good reasons in the above post. I know from experience that its difficult to accept them as good reasons from your own perspective, but they look reasonable performance inhibitors to me.