Jeff Galloway approach to R/W/R London Marathon 2014 -Help!

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  • lMA

    sorry I didn't reply sooner I ended up with an Ofsted inspection in one of my schools at the end of the week so I had to drop out of things for a few days. Now feel completely wiped but happy with how it went.

    Yes the shorter the segments of time you run/walk the less likely you are supposed to be at risk of injury. My experience seems to bear that out, although I have not been doing it all that long.

    So in theory although 1/1, 40/40, 30/30, 20/20 are all the same ratio, in practice your legs would get less tired and therefore vulnerable to injury the small the time segments I.e. 20/20 should give the greatest 

     

     

  • LMA

    sorry to finish the other post half way through, my iPad seemed to freeze so I couldn't write.

    it would be good if you could do R/W right from the start in yr half and report back in detail about how it went, so we could compare notes.

    good luck. Is it this Sunday or the one after?

  • I am doing Retford half tomorrow and am going to do 30/30, I'll post tomorrow evening and let you know how it goes. I hope people don't look at me too weird!!

  • Hi Jangok

    JG wants me to do up tp 26 miles even if I have to walk a number of miles. See posts above. I got out of synch in my training with doing the Blackpool Half. Anyway I am supposed to be doing 23 next weekend and then 26 a fortnight before London, but that one is not set in stone yet. Hope that makes sense.

    Good luck with the niggles. Do it gently

  • hi all

    finished the Retford half today, very tough because the temperature was 19 degrees - not exactly what I have been training in! Anyway, stuck to 30/30 and that only got interrupted at water stations when I stopped to fill up my bottle, and ran the last few hundred metres without stopping to walk. I did the first 5 miles in 1 hour which I was really pleased with, but I did slow down a bit after that, mainly due to the heat I think. I did overtake a fair few people, which is a first for me image finished in 2:46 so just over 12:36 mins per mile - I am happy with that. Don't think I could have done double the distance though

    my plans are to do 18 next week - probably with a negative ratio, then I have another half marathon the week after, then probably 20 miles the next week,, which then gives me 2 weeks to taper

     

  • Well done Mathschick. It was far too warm up in Yorkshire yesterday and it was definitely warmer than that down south. Hope to goodness it isn't that warm in the marathon. It has just given me something else to panic about now

    image

    C

  • I am just wondering what ratio to use in the actual marathon! I don't think I could have kept that up for another 13 miles...

  • I haven't discussed ratios for London itself yet with JG but he has suggested I use really short segments and possibly negative ratiosnext weekend to do my 23 miler to avoid tiredness. He says his wife and him recently did a 26 miler at 15/15 for this very reason and was still able to run the next day, and I can believe that.

    I'm just bothered that it could take soooo long to run the distance that I won't have time for anything else and that just staying on my feet for 6 or 7 hours will be exhausting in itself. I really need to get over this and just get on with it I suppose. JG says it doesn't matter how slow you go, it still puts just as much endurance into your body as running does.

    Okay, the way round this for me I think is to do it as an experiment of one. LOL. I shall go away and think what time I can face doing my 23 in and then work a strategy out to succeed with this.

    See you all in a bit. Perhaps we need to do a slow race and see who goes slowest and who feels best after.

    C

  • haha, I like the idea of the slow race!

    I am aiming for 18 this weekend, or maybe 19. Like you - the amount of time that this takes is a major thing - and has an impact on family. I might try 20/40 on Sunday and see how that goes. I think I need to do a negative split for these long runs

  • Right. Throwing down the gauntlet now!

    I am going to do  my 23 miles at 15mph pace, according to the R-W-R book this should be done at a negative ratio od 20/40. This should take a boringly slow 5hrs 45mins. I better be as fresh as a daisy the following day after that. If I have any energy after 18 miles (which is unlikely) then I will change ratios and speed up a bit. Although perhaps I shouldn't if I want to stay fresh. And it better not make me slower in London!!!!!

    Any slower offers? LOL

    C

  • Chris - wish I was doing London too - we could have done it together image Anyway, best to keep the pace slow for your long training runs or you won't recover in time for the rest of training which will make you slower overall for London!

    I'll be happy if I can match your 15min mile pace (assuming that is what you meant because I can't match 15mph - I am lucky if I can cycle at that speed!)

  • ChrissiChrissi ✭✭✭

    mathschick - well done on half

    Chris - at this stage i think you need to just trust Jeff knows what he's doing and that he will get you there.

    would a slow race have prizes for last rather than first ???? i could go for that

    My manchester num,ber came yesterday along with feelings of mild panic.  Definately going to do RWR for my last 20 on Sunday but my brain is still fighting it (daft when i know it will work)

    Last sundays run with hubs was a gentle 8 miles with walks, not a rigid pattern all very casual, but i felt chilled after and he got around with no hip pain so a definate result.

     

  • well I ended up doing a run-walk, then walk-walk, then walk-sway (keep upright!) at the end on my long run.  It wasn't pretty.  I did run-walk to music one song run, one song walk.  I guess I should be more scientific about it!  I have a feeling I will be doing a lot of run-walking at London.

    I'm up for a slow race.  I am queen of slow!

  • It would be good if I could do 15mph Haha. Okay maybe nearer 15m/mi.Trust Mathschick to spot the numerical error. Yes it would be fun to do some London miles with someone doing the same pace.

    Lainey, is that a long time to walk, most songs are a few minutes long aren't they? How long did you go?

    I agree Chrissi, it is hard to make yourself believe what is right under your nose re this method - IT WORKS!!! I think I was brainwashed by the run it all brigade when I was younger.

  • I suppose it was a long time, but I wasn't sure what sort of time I should walk or run for.  Songs seemed convenient (very unscientific!) Overall it was a 16 miler but it was the last four that the wheels came off.  I am hoping it was the heat as I was running in the middle of the day and it was quite warm...

  • JG reckons that walking for more than 30 secs at a time doesn't really add to recovery. I do 30/30 on most of my long runs. I am wanting greater recovery in my 23 miler (so I don't hot the wall like you did) so I am planning to run 20secs and walking 40secs. It will also slow me down a bit and just enable me to go for longer in a better state. I'd never get going again with how long you walked for so you probably did better than I would. LOL

  • Thanks for that.  Will keep 30/30 in mind.  Am really hoping you won't hit the wall like me either...

  • Lainey - the Jeff Galloway website is good for information about specific run/walk ratios. I have found 30/30 a good ratio, but also on one long run when my knee had been a bit iffy all week I did 30/60 which was nice and to be honest not all that slower than 30/30

  • ChrissiChrissi ✭✭✭

    Chris - yes it took me so long to go from run/walk as a beginner up being able to run about 16 miles without walking that i'm struggling to go back - even though i know it makes sense and can get me through my marathons and beyond comfortably and means i can carry on with this running lark for a long long time.

    Coincidently my friend i did my last long run with (she did 18 of it) messaged me yesterday to see if i'd heard of RWR and did i think it was worth giving it ago.  So we are going to do Sundays 20 together (it's her first 20 ready for 1st marathon at London) in a run 5 walk 1.  It will be good to see if i can manage that for 20, how i feel after and how fast/slow it is.  I can then decide what i'm going to aim for in Manchester.

  • Thanks Chris for your reply. I am run / walking Stafford half this weekend. I hope to do it from the beginning but I am aware I may get carried away and as it's my home town half I will know so many people, I have got to try and overcome the embarrassment factor. I've not really read any Jeff Galloway books. Following a knee injury during my marathon training I was searching for how best to proceed. I was reading Gareth's sub 5 marathon thread on asics 262. He has been advised to do a run walk plan. 8/2. I think I may choose this option or 4/1. Maybe the intervals should be shorter but will see how it goes this weekend and adjust for the following week.

    I'll be honest like you Chrissi I would like to be running throughout but know it is impossible on the training I have done and with the possibility of my knee giving way!

    good luck with all your training 

  • Just a little update, tonight I completed 5.35 miles in 57 mins. I did 1min/20 secs. I was quite happy with my pace but took a while to settle into the splits. I did find 20 secs too short, not from a tiredness perspective but the continual stopping and starting. 

    Definitely going for longer running distances on Sunday 8/2 4/1......then review it afterwards for my next long run.

  • LMA - The other ratio you could use is 2/30. Out of interest what pace do you run at? Still playing around with ratios. I have a 23 mile run on my schedule this weekend and plan to use a negative ratio in the hope that it saves my legs a bit. Will report how that feel.

    Hi Chrissi, it would be interesting doing R/W/R with someone like that. Let us know how it goes.

    Did my Magic Mile last night ready for setting target time in London. I am quietly improving

    19.10.13      10.45

    28.12.13      10.19

    2.02.14          9.24

    12.03.14        9.09

    This R/W stuff must do something as I have improved my mile time by 1.36 since October. Keep going like this and I'll be breaking the 4 min mile by Christmas. Haha

  • Well done Chris Great progress !  

  • This is the report I'll be sending JG this week about my long run. Hope you don't mind me sharing it with you. It helps me think it through.

    Weekend Run (Friday)

    Distance assigned 23 miles

    Distance actually run23.92 miles

    RWR ratio assigned

    Walk 10 miles then negative ratio for rest very conservative ratio and pace

    We discussed breaking the walk up to fit in with the hills

    RWR actually run

    Walked the first 3.5miles to the top of the hill; 1.5 miles around the turn at miles 11-12; and 3 miles on the return between miles 18-21. Approx 8 miles in total.

     

    Felt comfortable R/W the rest. There was probably more walking than I planned in mile 23 and 24 because of the wind, see below.

    R/W ratio used was a conservative 20/40 to keep the pace gentle.

    Assigned Pace Use a conservative pace

    Actual Pace Overall average pace 14:20m/mi (Time 5hrs 42mins)

     

    Mile                 Pace                      Mile                 Pace

    1                                            15:44 H                 13                    13:41

    2                                            15:14 H                 14                    13:25

    3                                            15:52 H                 15                    13:29

    4                                            15:03 H                 16                    13:37

    5                                            12:00                     17                    13:49

    6                                            12;55                     18                    14:16 H

    7                                            13:19                     19                    16:23 H

    8                                            13:25                     20                    18:09 H

    9                                            13:20                     21                    16:00 H

    10                                        13:22                     22                    12:25

    11                                        14:30 H                 23                    14:25

    12                                        15:19 H                 24                    14:09

    Temperature and Weather

    I am beginning to feel a bit like a records with the needle stuck with regard to our British weather this year. In a word ‘Wind!’

     The weather deteriorated considerably during the course of my run. The wind was just beginning to pick up when I left home. I actually got changed again when I got to the front door. It had been a lovely sunny morning and so when I got home (managed to get away early so home at 1:30) I put shorts and a summer T-shirt on. When I went outside the wind had changed to the NW and was decidedly cool. Luckily I went back in and changed – long sleeves and gloves. Bizarre.

    By the time I turned at 12 miles it was a brisk cold wind and very blustery. I felt like I was running uphill from then on, even on the flat

    As I began the climb at 19 miles, it whipped up to a full blown gale. The last 3.5-4 miles were horrendous. It was pitch black and although I had my headtorch, the cars kept blinding me. In addition the wind was so strong as I passed the fields, it kept knocking me off my balance. We have had a few dry days and fine soil kept blowing into my eyes and scouring my face like sand-paper; it was a battle to get home and I was not a pretty sight when I got there: hair on end and red blotchy face and eyes.

    (Garmin data) when I set off was 43º feels like 33º 24mph NW wind.

    The internet said the storm peaked at 7:30 pm (I arrived home at about 7:45) with 42mph NW wind, gusts at 51mph.

    This week’s weather moan completed………..I am British remember. It is our favourite topic of conversation!! Haha

    Weekend Long Run Commentary

    Despite the weather, I really enjoyed my run. I did NOT hit the wall at all. On the whole my body stood up to it well and believe it or not (after all the moning) I rather enjoyed the battle with the wind.

    I changed my eating and drinking pattern on this run and felt much better for it. I have bought a belt for a water bottle so had it with me all the time, rather than having to pick it up on route. I didn’t have any sports drinks, gels, jelly babies and the like as they seem to have made me feel nauseous and my blood sugars fluctuated a lot with them; I think adding to the hitting the wall problem(all be it not drastic) when I did the 20 miler and the 16 miler after the Blackpool Half.

    You will laugh at what worked for me, nutrition-wise. All I wanted when I got home last time was a marmalade sandwich made with wholemeal bread. So that is what I took with me.  – 2 slices made up and cut into quarters, wrapped it in cling film. I also had a single slice about an hour before I left on my travels. I ate the mini sandwiches at 8, 12, 16 and 20 miles, all washed down with water. Worked a treat.

    I ran 4 miles longer than I have ever run before and was fine. Amazing.

    Physical Issues

    Aches and Pains?

    I had some tightness again in my left calf, at around mile 18-19. This walked out easily. I think to be honest battling with the wind had caused me to subconsciously over stride and toe off to push against it. When I adjusted what I was doing, it quickly eased off.

    Improvements?

    I was happy with a lot of things this week and learnt stuff too.

    I am pleased with the incremental improvements in my Magic Mile times, which show the training is working and gives me hope for the future when I can train consistently all the time.

    Whilst I am a slow runner, I am happy with the peculiar nutrition plan I tried this week. I’ll get some strange looks in London when I get a sandwich out. LOL

    I didn’t hit the wall which is brilliant.

    I learnt how to listen better to my body and adjust my running form accordingly (minor calf issue)

    I KNOW I will be able to complete The London Marathon. My number came today 24thousand and something. Daughter got 364 because she’s got a championship place. Very impressive!!!

    I have hopes of doing the marathon with a time below 6hrs and on a good day nearer 5:30. There are no big hills on the course either. Hurrah!!

  • Thanks Minnie. Had a good running week. Hope yours has been good too.

    C

  • Wow Chris!! very well done. A little bit of me is still sceptical re R/W but your times throughout are impressive. There must be something in it. 

    Love the write up. You will go to London confidently now. It was good to receive the programme today. 

    I'll let you know how my half goes tomorrow. 

  • wow Chris! Well done on your long run, and it was interesting to read your report, thanks for sharing it. It is really impressive how your mile time has improved!

    I am hoping to get 18 miles done tomorrow, am going to try to set out really early  so it doesn't impact too much on family time

    good luck for tomorrow LMA

  • We can do it! Just stick to the programme, at least that is what I keep telling myself. Let me know how your weekends go.

    ps just to show this approach still deals with human beings, my hips are stiffening up a bit now. I may be doing the John Wayne walk by tomorrow. Haha.

    seriously though, I shouldn't be able to walk by now. 

    One team, One dream! Just stick to the programme and we'll all be winners!

    happy running all

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