Gait analysis, as waste of time?

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Comments

  • Shoes smell like horse piss wrote (see)
    Ben. have injury rates reduced since the invention of these medicsted shoes?

    Let me play devils advocate here, ignoring the fact that I have previously worked for the devil. 

    The US Army Centre for Health and Preventative Medicine carried out a major study into the effects of gait analysis at FortDrum.  Injury rates were recorded over the two years before the programme was implemented, and over the two years after the programme was implemented. 

    The sample size was huge, literally thousands of soldiers, and the injury rate in the years after the programme was implemented halved.    

    Obviously I am cherry picking one study here that backs up a given viewpoint, but my argument is that you are wrong to dismiss these methods completely. 

  • Thanks Ben. 

     

    ps... there's no such thing as the US Army Centre for Health and Preventative Medicine

    partly because the Americans spell it Center... but mainly THERE IS NO SUCH WORD AS PREVENTATIVE... not on either side of the Atlantic.  It drives me mad when so many people use it... even BBC news readers etc. 

    Thanks.  Rant over.  image

  • Running shoes are just like any other product whether it be a hat, shirt, jeans, food or drink. It should be up to the shoppers choice on what he/she wants to buy based on the style, comfort, fit. Fitting shoes based on gait or foot type is a false paradigm preached by shoe companies. 

    We must remember that running shoes sales assistants are paid on sales commissions and they have no right to force us to buy the most expensive cushioned or stability or motion control shoes. It is laughable when the sales assistants claim you have flat feet when you have a distinct medium to high arch. 

     

  • now I usually overlook these type of threads but this one has been going on for sometime now.

    im totally against being given the type of shoe from a salesperson just because they have seen me running on a 'false surface'.

    i totally agree with horse piss. You need to look into running technique, muscle structure,posture. 

    the most simplistic form of exercise goes back many thousands of years has been affected by our sedentary lives (sitting in offices etc) which in turn affects our muscle groups. I.e all of them running from back to down the ankle. You strengthen these.......like they are supposed to be.........like a normal human being structure then you start running correctly.

    which eventually will be passed onto running form.

    look at the top athletes of the world, they are constantly monitored for running form/technique to make them more efficient and less likely to injure themselves.

  • Ben. the answer is no
  • Jeremy,  

    the most comfortable trainers I have ever worn are Brooks pure drift which are minimalist.  Mainly because they have a large toe box.  Unfortunately even where manufactures do make wide fitting light shoes such as NB, they won't supply to the Uk.

  • Nose Nowt wrote (see)

    Thanks Ben. 

     

    ps... there's no such thing as the US Army Centre for Health and Preventative Medicine

    partly because the Americans spell it Center... but mainly THERE IS NO SUCH WORD AS PREVENTATIVE... not on either side of the Atlantic.  It drives me mad when so many people use it... even BBC news readers etc. 

    Thanks.  Rant over.  image

     

    It's in the OED.

  • Shoes smell like horse piss wrote (see)
    Ben. the answer is no

    Well at least you are coming to this issue with an open mind. 

  • Rich949 wrote (see)
    Nose Nowt wrote (see)

    Thanks Ben. 

     

    ps... there's no such thing as the US Army Centre for Health and Preventative Medicine

    partly because the Americans spell it Center... but mainly THERE IS NO SUCH WORD AS PREVENTATIVE... not on either side of the Atlantic.  It drives me mad when so many people use it... even BBC news readers etc. 

    Thanks.  Rant over.  image

     

    It's in the OED.

    It's also listed in my Collins dictionary as an alternative form of "preventive".

    That being said, the US Army dudes he referenced use "preventive", so you're half right. It's a word, but it isn't used in the name of that particular organisation.

  • Incidentally, even if somebody produced a study that disproved gait analysis to the extent that it was not worth investigating the matter any further, I would still reject in the strongest terms the idea that giving somebody a shoe that fitted and felt comfortable constituted good customer service.  

    My experience has been that any information that you can get about a customer, improves your chances of not getting a return. 

  • Bringing the argument back round again. shops provide pronation analysis not gait analysis.
  • If a pair of shoes did not fit well and were uncomfortable, I would try on another pair of shoes instead. I would look for a pair that fit well and were comfortable and the colour, style is what I am looking for in a pair of shoes.

    Minimalist/light trainers/Neutral shoes are usually more comfortable than a pair of stiff, uneven, uncomfortable, tight fitting stability shoes. I am the consumer and I am king. I will only ever buy the pair of shoes that I want, not the shoes the 18 or 19 year old sales assistant is trying to sell me. I can always buy shoes online for a much cheaper price point than I would get in a retail store and get the shoe in the colour, style that I want.

    Gait analysis is just another means of trying to sell shoes to consumers with fancy running shoe company sales talk. There is no real evidence to prove gait analysis actually works. 

  • http://cdn.conversiondiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/cartoon-internet.jpg

     

  • 16 27 is a bit early for bed....

  •  "I would still reject in the strongest terms the idea that giving somebody a shoe that fitted and felt comfortable constituted good customer service.  "

    That has to be a classic.  Isn't that the primary job of any shoe salesman? 

    Are you a foot warrior from hitch hikers's guide to the galaxy?

  • RoadWarrior wrote (see)

    If a pair of shoes did not fit well and were uncomfortable, I would try on another pair of shoes instead. I would look for a pair that fit well and were comfortable and the colour, style is what I am looking for in a pair of shoes.

    Minimalist/light trainers/Neutral shoes are usually more comfortable than a pair of stiff, uneven, uncomfortable, tight fitting stability shoes. I am the consumer and I am king. I will only ever buy the pair of shoes that I want, not the shoes the 18 or 19 year old sales assistant is trying to sell me. I can always buy shoes online for a much cheaper price point than I would get in a retail store and get the shoe in the colour, style that I want.

    Gait analysis is just another means of trying to sell shoes to consumers with fancy running shoe company sales talk. There is no real evidence to prove gait analysis actually works. 

    Firstly, there is a huge difference between the evidence being conflicted on whether something works, and there being no evidence that it works.

    Secondly, if you want me as the retailer to sign a piece of paper saying that you can run in the shoes for 30 days and bring them back covered in horse sh1t if you don't get on with them, then you have to submit yourself to whatever system of testing I think is appropriate.

  • Surrey Runner wrote (see)

     "I would still reject in the strongest terms the idea that giving somebody a shoe that fitted and felt comfortable constituted good customer service.  "

    That has to be a classic.  Isn't that the primary job of any shoe salesman? 

    Are you a foot warrior from hitch hikers's guide to the galaxy?

    No. 

    If you go to a specialist retailer you expect them to do more than that to constrain your needs. 

    Otherwise what is the point of them?

  • You go to a running store to buy a shoe (as opposed to online) so you get one that fits right - that's vital.

    The gait analysis bit is an added placebo effect to make believe you have been sold the best shoe for your running style.

    That bit is important so that when you then inevitably go out and overdo it and get some sort of pain/injury, you don’t then immediately blame the shoe.

  • There is nothing wrong with trying shoes on in store to find a shoe that is the right fit and then deciding the shoe is not what you want. You go home and buy that shoe in the colour that you want for a cheaper price online. 

  • Nice RoadW and we wonder why our high street is in decline
  • RoadWarrior wrote (see)

    There is nothing wrong with trying shoes on in store to find a shoe that is the right fit and then deciding the shoe is not what you want. You go home and buy that shoe in the colour that you want for a cheaper price online. 

    You would have been welcome to com into my shop and try on every pair of shoes that I had, and go away and buy them online, provided you didn’t make use of my time or expertise. 

    The sole commodity I was trading on, was my ability to make a better pick than you. 

  • I have never returned a pair of shoes. I make sure that the shoes I want are the correct size, are comfortable and are the brand and model  I am looking for at a reasonable price within my budget. 

    If I spent time trying on more than one pair of shoes, say two or three I would more than likely buy the pair that I liked within my budget on special from the running store. I just do not like it when the sales assistants try and pressure me into buying the more expensive shoes in a brand or model that I do not want. 

    A loose or tight fitting shoe that does not fit the whole foot will feel uncomfortable and lead to cramping if tight or heel slippage/rolled ankle if loose fit. Too much cushioning in a shoe may lead to the foot rolling inwards. Firm stiff stability/motion control shoe forces the foot to roll out instead of naturally rolling in. Running shoes are working against the natural foot bio-mechanics. Would it be better to work with the natural bio-mechanics than against it and wear a running shoe that works with your natural bio-mechanics instead of trying to correct your natural foot motion?

     

  • It very much depends upon the customer, and the number and severity of problems they have.  The less problems there were the more your approach would be correct.  If you get somebody who is a chronic overpronator who is painful to watch, or has chronic plantafashiitis then you are going to have to take a more interventionist approach,at least for now. 

  • In my experience, those who go to running shops looking for 'guidance' and 'gait analysis' are the runners with dreadful running technique and no knowledge of the subject matter at all. They also buy into the idea that it's all about the shoes. 'Wrong' shoes are the sole cause of injuries and 'correct' shoes are the only fix.

    If every time I walked through a doorway and I banged my head against the side, the answer isn't to wear a special helmet to protect me, it's to learn to walk through the doorway better.

     

  • Trying to change somebody’s running style, is a high risk strategy, because the very act of changing it brings a high risk of injury.    When it goes wrong, it goes wrong big time, and it is not something that should be undertaken lightly. Using shoe type to correct a problem is gentle and unobtrusive by comparison. 

  • What happens when the running style changes ben? 

    Say I went into a shop with serious 'over bullshit pronation' and you sold me some shoes that fitted. 3/4 months down the line I've been doing some strength work in the gym as part of my marathons routine.

    now those shoes are, in all truth Useless.

    Why not sell them some neutral shoes and advise strength work.

    surely that's the better way to sell a shoe to someone in the long run.

  • Poor running form is a higher risk
  • Also as they have a serious condition like PF I wouldn't advise running at all until it's sorted. But that's another matterimage

    When you saw they had a serious over pronation. Which in your words was painful to watch why not teach them to run properly, running is realistically the most natural thing to a human.

  • Shoes smell like horse piss wrote (see)
    Poor running form is a higher risk

    No it isn’t. 

    There is better data to suggest that artificially changing your running style causes injuries, than there is to suggest that one style is better than another. 

    Running injuries are generally not very serious and generally don’t put you out of action for very long.  It is when you start messing around with somebody’s running style that you start to see people getting ruined for a substantial amount of time. 

    Even by teaching somebody a running style that is correct or better than their existing style you might end up doing them harm. 

  • Ja5onW wrote (see)

    Also as they have a serious condition like PF I wouldn't advise running at all until it's sorted. But that's another matterimage

    When you saw they had a serious over pronation. Which in your words was painful to watch why not teach them to run properly, running is realistically the most natural thing to a human.

    You could be forgiven for thinking so, but you get some pretty hopeless cases.  If somebody has a very weak arch and a very flexible ankle than you are never going to teach them good running form. 

    If you are able to run injury free for the most part, then you should be grateful for it, because  there are people out there who desperately want to be serious runners but can’t find anything that works.  One such case was one of my colleagues at Sweatshop who suffered from chronic PF.  She was an excellent rower and cyclist, and she wanted to add a marathon to her list of accomplishments.  She visited lots of sports injury specialists, and spent a fortune on equipment, but nothing ever really solved it. 

    I personally tried to avoid using motion control shoes for all but the most hopeless cases, but there are people out there for who they are the only hope.  Your nuclear weapon for somebody who overpronates hopelessly is the Brooks Beast, and I have only had to deploy it on a couple of occasions.  Once was to a guy trying to get into the army, who was painful to watch, and had pretty much given up on finding a solution to his foot problems.  He ended up coming back and buying a second pair to walk in. 

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