Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
RW Forum 5 - Sub 3
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Rodger has already run a 3:01 mara I think it was so not much to do, If you get sub 3 Doppy that would be a lot more of an achievement.
Feels so good to have a day off. Swapping chiro treatments later with collegue just to keep me in tip top form!
I think I got I right today. Long run bought forward as I have to marshal at club race on sunday. Did persuade club runner ( ironman) to come with me on LR in the hope that he would drag me round the last 10 miles at a good pace.
1st 10 average 8.35.........don't fall over Gobi! next 10-
7.05, 6.42, 6,52, 6.47, 6.51, 6.52, 6.57, 6.55, 7.01, 7.26
slow 1 mile shuffle home. 21 in total . I can't say it felt easy and did feel quite nauseous on last mile. 1 jel at 16 miles.
sorry can't spell.... gel!
BUT (there is always a but)
Under fueled again which is why it was hard near the end. Even though the first 10 were easy(brilliant by the way) you needed to fuel in there when it is comfortable.(body will digest the fuel as it is not strained) Ideally (it is training after all) something after about an hour and then something just before the start of the MP section.
That said, I believe this is progress.
Nice one :??)
I have a numpty question: if you don't feel the lack of fuel in your sessions, would you still benefit from fueling anyway? I've only ever taken gels as practice for the practicalities of opening and consuming them while on the move, and took some in the marathon I did, but have never noticed any difference with or without. Or would it be because my sessions are just a bit easier than Doppy's?
Lit is it possible you do feel the lack of fuel and that is why you regard e.g. 18 with 10 at MP as impossible?
Greg McMillan (of calculator fame) burbles about this on his website - basically he agrees with Gobi
Lit - easy solution would be to try a hard effort :??)
I don't think 18 with 10 at MP is impossible, marrows, I just have my doubts about that P&D 7 miles at 15k race pace session.
15k to half marathon pace, which does makes it a teeny bit easier. Still a toughy though.
sorry to misrepresent you Lit
I just remembered vaguely that you had said some of the long fast runs were too long and fast in the new edition of P&D
yes, but the schedule doesn't say 'run anywhere you like in that range and feel free to run at the slower end if it's a bit hard', it says 'run at threshold pace, which is likely to fall somewhere in the range of 15k to HMP and should be the pace you could race at for an hour''. Obviously everyone ignores that bit cos it's hard...
I like the way its put that McMillan agrees with Gobi.
Lit - get away with as little fuel as possible in training is my approach, i carry a gel if its a very long LSr of if there's MP in it, but only take it if I need it. The plus side, is that even if you teach your body to be a good fat burner, it will still respond well to fuel on race day. I'd say that 7M at 15k pace isnt doable for most (esp the closer you get to the pointy end), but I guess its more about effort rather then pace anyway.
I haven't a clue what my threshold pace is but, right or wrong, I run those sessions as close to my McMillan calculator's 15k pace as I can on the day. My pace falls inbetween 15k to HMP, usually in the quicker half of the pace range. For the 7mi session it may fall in the slower half. If it does it's not because I opted to make the session easy, but because that was physically as fast as I could run.
How do you run them?
There are not many doing P&D on RW who would have LT at HM pace (I think you would have to be a true elite for that) When I did them as specified by P&D I used my 10 mile pace which was conveniently 60 mins pb. I agree with Lit here that most just look at the schedule and forget about the intention behind the session which has been carefully worded in the text, so they pick HM pace
I don't think the P&D LT session needs fuelling - it is too short (even the bugger of a 7M LT session). It needs some thought as to a bit of carrot or stick. Alternative tog pace, try it by the heart rate bands - it is all guesstimate of LT.
Better still, forget the technology and run them comfortably hard. Just as likely to give your LT a tickle if you can maintain the effort
andrews out of interest, if using McMillan, why not just use the vLT pace provided
To be honest I had overlooked it. It's about right for me though. I had 9mi w/5 LT on 7th Jan and ran the LT miles at 6:02. Putting my target mara time in the McMillan calculator brings up a vLT of 6:01.
Hey thanks for pointing that out! I must have looked at that calculator hundreds of times but never spotted it before.
The end of another long 60 miler week. Feeling a bit tired and sleeping amazingly well, but so far so good. Next week 66miles.....unknown territory!
just finished progressive run....9.13, 7.45, 7.21, 6.52, 6.36, 6.27,, 6,24, 6.28....then 2 miles cool down. Total 10 miles.
well done to the girl. How fast was she ?
love reading the discussions re different training methods........it's my favourite part of these forums as the sub 3 starts looking at the smaller details to get improvements