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RW Forum 5 - Sub 3
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RW interesting! Did this work for your marathons this year? How did you feel in the last 6 miles of them?
not quite finished......I have run many marathons, some good some awful. My legs are the only part that don't give up on me. I usually start to feel sick. Is this because the pace is too fast for me or because my nutrition is crap. Probably both I'm guessing. Going to see nutritionist at weekend to tackle that problem.
RW, are you some kind of trolling spammer? If you're serious about that training programme you're in the wrong place. Try the Team GB thread. The OP on there is as naive as you are, you'll get along just fine.
Doppy - do you take gels or sports drink? Is it those that make you feel sick?
Doppy, what has your nutrition strategy been like in your previous races? Also what do you eat / drink during your long training runs?
This year I have got used to running my long runs at a slower pace but without taking any gels etc. I feel it made me more efficient on race day and less reliant on shoving gels down my throat.
Hello! Mind if I pop in from time to time? It's great to have a speedy lady thread. I'm not quite ready to aim for sub 3 but probably in 2015...
I carbo-loaded for VLM last year. I didn't even eat as much as recommended but it still made me so bloated I could hardly do my jacket up the day before (water retention) but felt great during the race and was back to normal size (extra inch of space in jacket) straight after. So now I do believe it works.
Doppy, do you ever feel sick in shorter races? I do, but didn't in my one marathon because I clearly wasn't running fast enough.
Don't be too hard on RW, CC2 - most of us start out like that (I know I did) and it does seem logical at first. When you're on that initial improvement curve pretty much anything works up to a point. I don't think he's another Samir!
Gobi's in charge so I'm not going to join in much..............but carb loading and race day fuelling are important IMO, you only have so much Glycogen stored and its not enough to get round unless you have trained your body to be a fat burner first. You can then still top it up with gels and drinks on the day to make up the shortfall. Its important not to spike your body into burning the glycogen too early on race day. But on the other hand its best to trickle feed fuel in from early when your stomach can handle it more. If someone is being sick then its most likely that they have been running faster than their body has been trained to go.
Doppy - I'll be interested to hear how you get on with your nutritionist this weekend. I've had someone looking at my diet and my New Year's resolution is going to be to eat more!!
I've got a very fragile stomach too and have to be so careful when racing. The only gels I can take are SIS and I only take water. On training runs I just take water and no gels until near the marathon when I take them just to get my stomach used to them again. Sometimes I'll take one before a 5 or 10k for the same reason.
In my earlier marathon days I once didn't carry any and took the lucozade on the course but it ended in disaster. Last year I lost my SIS gels and belt early on and risked a lucozade gel at 16 miles. I was in the loo by 20 miles.
In my last two marathons I have done as TR said and started with gels early on and this seems to work well. And also agree with him that if you're running faster than perhaps you can cope with the blood is feeding your muscles and not protecting your stomach so anything in there looks for an escape.
I read that you can only burn off 1g of carbohydrate per minute (60g per hour) regardless of the amount you consume anything above this will remain in your stomach, until it decides it wants out!
Last marathon I took Ruth's advice from the Asics threads re carbo loading and it worked a treat. Basically the day before was pasta, bagels, etc all very bland. As little protein as possible and no fruit or veg apart from a small amount of tomato sauce.
Agree TR. I never feel sick on shorter races and never eat and drink on other distances including halfs. On my LSR s in training I take a drink and some jelly babies or a gel. I have very little body fat so not much in reserve. I am really trying to increase my intake now. I am 5ft5 and 8st. I weigh myself daily to make sure I am not losing weight. I need Gobis help on telling me to either stick with the P&D plan with a few tweets or RW plan with a few tweets. Maybe he is having a lie in!
Tweets
Eek! I'm an inch shorter and nearly a stone heavier.
No wonder you're faster than me!
Not unless occasional dry heaving at the end of shorter, faster races counts... much better since I stopped drinking coffee pre-race though.
Ha lit you can join my 'my strength plus your weight.. now we could be talking' fantasy club
45kg woman has just demonstrated to me that she can eat a full-size mince pie in a single bite
pace in training is what makes the difference.
Carb loading, your body can only hold so much therefore when you taper and eat normally the stores will be replenished naturallly.
Finding the right race fluids and gels and the strategy to get you through will make more difference come 19miles.
Am in Wales visiting my mother and safe to say I have been up for hours
Gobi doesn't do lie-ins.
Lit ran 3.06 on her debut, so is more than ready for a sub 3 attempt in my opinion.
4 mile recovery run for me this morning at crawling pace.
Hmm, Speedy, are you saying my sub-3:05 target is unambitious?
YES.
5 easy today in 40 mins and a swim thismorning.
tues 8 miles with 4 x 2000m in 7.30 and 2 mins rec.
wed 12 at 8min miles
thurs off- gentle swim to stretch everything
friday 6 with middle 4 @ MP
sat 5 easy
sunday 15- 18
I am finally home and have laptop time, thanks for the PBs listed
Looking at the PBs this looks pretty doable, I have coached someone with a slower half to a 2.58 this year.
Couple of things for you to think about on this weeks plan
Easy runs and medium distance runs at the same pace - why ?
What is the easy run ? is it recovery ? Is it a session ?
If recovery then I would knock it back to 4 miles and run 8.15 pace and if it is a session I would run it at 7.35 - 7.55 - same with Saturday
Wednesday - no slower than 8.15 but don't stress 8mm
Friday - 6 with 4 at MP, Why ?
Why have you listed no pace for Sundays run ?
It should be either 15 or 18 not somewhere, be specific and know what you are doing. If you want to run a sub 3 the training is planned not oh well somewhere maybe.........
If this is too much questioning for you then feel free to tell me to back off :??)
I said SUB 3:05...
The 5 milers are recovery runs just clocking up miles. Don't know why the MLR is same pace. I am going by RW program. Tell me what you think I should do? my long run pace I am not sure about. Should I do it all at same pace or should I incorporate some MP miles? I dither about the mileage cause the last 2 weekends I have done 18 and on the 12 th I am doing an off road 19 event. I feel maybe I should do less this weekend but am capable of more. As you can see I haven't a clue! HELP!
8.15s for recovery pace? I do mine at whatever comes out of my legs. This morning that was about 8.45s!
I wore HR monitor today. which I hate. Rubs my sternal bones and ends up round my waist. Hope that's not too much info! Tried to keep at 135 which was just under 8 mm.