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Seren, well done with the 11 mile long run,
Emmy, sauchony progrid ride 6, they are a little heavier than I'm used too but they're comfortable.
re the recovery run, HR was a little high for the pace I was running it should be around 70%, I'll need to be more vigilant.
ruffles, cleanshoes, welcome aboard
Running Rodent - you're doing Comrades and Devil O the Highlands scares you?
Kaz, you out there? What have I gotten myself in for?
I'm off to go cry in a corner for a while...
Seren - Ah! Gotcha! I was thinking that was a little high mileage for you at the moment for a MWLR. Whats your plan for this weekend?
Stewart - Why did you pick those? Because you were assessed and they were the best? I used to run in Saucony and they always feel really comfy on my feet. I'm currently wearing and using Brooks Adrenalines. A lot lighter than my Sauconys!
RR/ Weedy - Welcome to the party! Unusual activities? You mean running in 44'c heat through Europe isn't normal?
Weedy - am looking forward to seeing you tomorrow at the lake. I'm not feeling it at the moment so feel free to kick my arse around it!
Good news - they can't fly faster than walking pace , so keep running and you'll be fine ,,only the females bite and also any you swallow are classified as protein
Morning
Emmy, I've joined your team on jantastic. Not sure I am going to rival your target of 6 runs a week though. I think 4 is my max as I'm still trying to keep my eye in with tri training, so am hoping to keep up the swimming and biking!
What's yasso?
Hugo is not keen on rain. Maybe it's because he's so small....if we're running near mud the poor thing tends to get a face full!
Ruffles, I've very recently found out that Yasso refers to Bart Yasso, a running coach of near legendary status (I'm a little embarrassed that I hadn't heard of him, as I do like my theory!).
Emmy, that is a training session that I will definitely have a go at, I am a sucker for speedwork. If I understand correctly, for a four hour target you would run each 800 in 4 mins? I don't have access to a track and I'm rubbish at fast pacing, so can I do them on the dreadmill?
Stewart, the first program is pretty much the polar opposite of your plan, the highest mileage week is 50Km over three runs. Each of those is described as a 'quality' session with no recovery runs and no additional MWLR. I find it quite flexible as I can swap the intervals and tempo run around, just leaving at least a day between them. The theory is to reduce time on your feet, but to replace it with cross training, like Ruffles I will be trying to maintain some bike and swim fitness during the marathon training. At the minute I'm (re)learning to swim using Total Immersion training which isn't helping because the drills are a long, long way from an aerobic workout.
Tonight is LSR, in theory 21Km at MP+45, so 9:55 mm (apologies for the mixed units, cyclists are metric!). I don't know why but I always get nervous before a long run.
Looking around there are a couple of half marathons local to me in March (Wilmslow and Liverpool), both flat and Wilmslow will probably closely resemble some of the Manchester route. They are on the 23rd though, which would only be two weeks before the marathon itself, do you guys think this is too close?
Morning all,
A glorious 8 1/2 miles that Boyska decided needed to be run at tempo pace
I hear that a lot as an excuse
Ruffles - Theres a link in the message at the top of the page about Yasso 800's. Boyska LOVES puddles, mud and getting wet. This morning he decided he needed to run in the stagnant pool. How far can you run with Hugo?
Overthinking - I don't have access to a track on most of my speedwork sessions so I tend to measure out 800m on a piece of road (normally using lampposts as indicators) and then I'll run the 800m at the desired pace. You're correct that 4hrs = 4mins for 800. I did 3.55 as I wanted to give myself a buffer if I needed the loo during a race
RE: Your plan - it really does seem very slim on the mileage. What do your cross training days look like? What will you take during your LSR? Water? gels? or will you have a large lunch/early tea?
Personally - I would aim for a half marathon in the last week of February to the mid March. Having it on the 23rd for me would be too close to the marathon itself to be able to use it as a good indicator of race pace.
Would either of these two work:
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/events/viewevent.asp?sp=&v=2&EN=79712&ms=
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/events/viewevent.asp?sp=&v=2&EN=80376&ms=
Lee - you're due to run 14 miles this weekend, correct? How are you feeling with your cold?
Weedy - yes, Scott's got it in one - it's the very small game I'm worried about at DOTH, not the big game at Comrades
. Also, Comrades is a road race - it's my more or less total lack of offroad experience that puts me off the idea of DOTH (this year).
Hi Emmy,
5k best is 23mins earlier this year and I have done a 52 min 10k also this year. Only half marathon was about ten years ago and I walked half of it! Don't run many races but I have been regularly running around 20-25 miles a week over the past few years although admittedly that has fluctuated a bit and there have been times where I have run less.
Also in the late Spring and Summer I was concentrating on cycling a lot more which has probably helped my endurance (regular 3-5hr cycles twice a weekend) but have been running solidly again since October and up to about 30 miles a week now and managed 17 miles in 2hrs 52 on Sunday although my legs were definitely sore for a couple of days!
Appreciate a lot of miles in P&D but I will be sensible and swap recovery runs for swimming a fair bit I think. Obviously if it feels like it is getting on top of me I will tweak the plan but I like the method behind it and it is quite technical which appeals to my inner geek.
RR - I admit the fear for me with running in Scotland are the midges. I seem to attract them regardless!
Cleanshoes - It sounds like you have some good times there for a base. Have you planned a half marathon to see where you're at? What pace did you run your 17miles at? Was any of it at MP or did you keep it at an even paced LSR effort? Also, did you take on any fuel or run it on breakfast?
Agree that cycling/swimming will definitely help your endurance and cross training to avoid injury.
Hi Emmy
I am planning to do the Deal half marathon in early Feb. It's about 2 months out from Zurich so I think works quite well.
It's a hilly half apparently, whereas Zurich is flat so I won't be too disheartened if my time suggests just over 4hrs.
For my long runs I am trying to follow the principles in P&D's book - first half at MP+20%, second half at MP+10%. That means roughly 10.50m/m for the first half and about 9.50m/m for the second half. Generally manage that, although I tend to be a tad faster for the first half but thereabouts for the second half.
I don't start the actual P&D training plan til middle of the month, but I am going to try a 12 mile LR this weekend with 5 or 6 at MP, to ease me into the 13m with 8 at MP that is the first LR of the actual schedule. The Sunday in between I will just do a 15 m run using the above principles.
Oh and forgot to mention the 17m was done on some cerreal a couple of hours before and lucozade sport during the run itself.
Anything 13m+ I tend to take a bottle of lucozade sport with me but below that generally just some water if anything.
It's 12 miles tomorrow and then 16 miles next Saturday. As for the cold I still have it but it's mainly affecting my sleep. I wake with an incredibly sore throat and have been taking a few elbows for snoring like a warthog all night. I think my quality of sleep is the main thing.
Just received the sample gels. Thank you, that was quick. Going to test some of the ones that don't require water first and likely stick to Powerade/Lucozade Isotonics for the fluids.
Last time I trained for a marathon I tried the Goodness Shakes after the longer runs. Not sure how much they helped.
milk blended with a banana and a spoon of honey.wonderful post long run..
Hi Cleanshoes - thanks for getting back to us! You're completely right that its a good time to do the half at that time frame outside of Zurich. It'd be interesting if you can report back with the mile stats from your LSR this weekend to see the different paces.
Is there any reason that you chose a 12week P&D schedule instead of the 18week one?
Do you intend of drinking Lucozade throughout the marathon? or will you be using gels/anything else?
Ooh - lots of posts whilst I was writing!
Lee - Ok - lets see how you get on with the 12 miles using the paces that Shades gave you and lets see the results and how you feel. Have you tried olbas oil/vicks vapour rub to help with the sleep?
You're welcome! Sorry for the weird writing - I did it whilst I was sitting on the train! It was definitely quick - I posted it yesterday afternoon!
Seren is right - some milk blended with a banana is a great post run recovery. After marathons I will have either chocolate milk or a for goodness shakes and a ham sandwich. It's important to eat/drink something within 30 minutes of finishing your LSR/marathon to enable the recovery.
Another question is what cross training is everyone doing. I know that some of you have said that you're doing cycling/swimming. Is anyone doing anything different/core exercises etc?
I was worried about jumping straight into the 18 week plan at 35 miles off the back of cycling rather than running so opted to do a few weeks of Hal Higdon to build up my mileage. I've then tweaked that to be more P&D "lite" I guess.
I'll get the mileage stats uploaded on Sunday, I tend to be fairly consistent after the first couple of miles whihc can be a bit all over the shop in fairness.
Re fueling I have been thinking about that. I don't think Lucozade is going to cut it really, might try some gels in my longer runs in the next couple of weeks and see how I get on. I tend to dilute the lucozade and run with a bigger bottle as it is a bit strong for me, can see it getting a bit too much to cope with if I'm swigging constantly throughout the race. Probably better to stick to water and gels but not sure.
Lucozade mixed 50:50 with water or with zero electrolyte replacement is my fluid of choice - advantage is that the lucozade is often available on the course- the disadvantage is juggling with bottles/ pouches to mix it up- I carry a 750 ml bottle on a waist belt, and top it up alternately at the stations- it means you have to walk at the stations, but for a 4 hr marathon, 30 sec spent walking at 5 or 6 water stations is no problem, and I reckon it reduces the risk of falling on all the litter at the water stations.
Emmy, I went to the local running shop and tried on numerous pairs, after watching back the footage recorded they seemed to be the best for my gait, the mizuno rider's were a close second, I normally run in Mizuno Ronin's but I can't find any in my size and they are considerable lighter.
Sounds like an eventful run with Boyska this morning
, with regard to the midges try avon o so soft cream, I've used this a few times when playing cricket, it works a treat.
Re xtraining I go to a body balance class once or twice a week and I usually try and do some strength stuff on the weights beforehand in the gym.
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!0 mile MLR this morning it was meant to be 11 but I had to get back home before 12, I managed to avoid the really bad weather but it was still windy out, my HRM was playing up and the stats are useless, average pace for the run was 10:11mm
cleanshoes - it will be whatever suits you best. Some people don't get along with gels so have energy drinks etc. as tricialitt says - you can always top it up along the way.
Tricialitt - Dependent upon my plan - I only either walk the aid stations or alternatively run through them but carry a bottle with me as I'm never thirsty when the aid stations appear.
Stewart - That sounds like a good idea and its good that they recorded them to show you how the run looked. Thanks for the tip for the midges - I've tried everything and seem to constantly smell of citronella during the summer! It sounds like you've got some good strengthening exercises in your routine - what does the body balance class entail? Is it strengthening the core?
If you're having issues with your HRM - have a look at the contact points (are they faded) or the battery. Those are always the major bits for me.
I'm running 2 marathons this weekend so i'll be a little offline but will aim to check the thread at least once a day.
body balance has elements of tai chi, yoga, there is also a mixture of strength, balance and core workouts, it lasts around an hour and I would recommend it to all runners, it has made a huge difference, especially my flexibility.
I changed the battery of the HRM not that long ago, I suspect it is the contacts as you have suggested, I'll give them a clean and I'll test it out tomorrow
Good luck this weekend Emmy can't wait to hear all about it on Sunday/Monday
2 marathons? You nutter
Cross Training?
Lol Lee, hope you sleep better tonight, enjoy the 12 miles tomorrow
Had to cut short my run last night as my left calf / ankle (maybe achilles but I think it is a bit higher up than that) was really tight and getting sore. Plenty of ice and ibuprofen gel last night and it felt ok this morning. Won't run today but still planning to try my long run tomorrow though obviously will be very careful.
Any stretches / exercises anyone can advise to try and loosen it?
Cleanshoes, sorry to hear you have a niggle in your calf, try this I also do heel drops on a step too
An easy 5 mile run this morning on a gently undulating route 10:11mm @ 139(73%), the HRM is working normally now, must have needed a clean.
I'm doing my long run tomorrow 18 miles with 10 @ MP, I'll keep the run mainly along the canal, as I need to start practicing my LR on a similar profile to the marathon
Emmy Good luck today
Well that was a slog! The signs were there from the off, as I drove out of work the temperature display on the building opposite was reading 0.0, fortunately Celsius. I was trying to run an even pace over the run, one of my main aims for my long runs this year, so set off nice and steadily, even though 2.5 of the first 5.0 Km is downhill.
Overall I covered 21.1 Km (had to get the half in, although it meant I had to run 300m past my house) @ 6:38 per Km (10:40 per mile, MP +90) including 245 m of elevation, so in total 2:20 on my feet.
I need to re-think food and water if I'm going to run at this time. I ate at 1200 as usual and started the run at 1700, not clever. I generally use gels so had a couple after 60 and 100 minutes. I use the TORQ gels as they are not too sickly and the flavours are fantastic (think raspberry ripple and banoffee). Not taking any water may not have been a smart move either, despite the low temperature.
Reasonably happy at this point, though I'm definitely leaning towards an extra run in the week, although it's not going to fit very well with my cross training.
Lee, I generally cycle and swim for cross training. In winter, spin classes are a bit of a staple. As I've been cycling for years, they get the heart rate going well, but don't leave me tired for the run the next day. In addition I do core exercises, the last month or so using a set of exercises featured in the magazine. The cross training is recommended in the FIRST plan, but I need to keep practicing in the pool or I'll drown come my first triathlon.
Did it just before it got too dark to run the disused railway. I have my wife to thank for that as she got back 45 minutes later than she should have.
It rained throughout but the wind had dropped to less than a breeze. My pacing wasn't perfect. Apart from being too fast and the Garmin bleating at me constantly to slow down, I was also skipping puddles to try and avoid wet socks. That was impossible in the end.
My 12 Mile Splits
The fastest was because I was chasing down another runner, can't take the competitor out of me, and the two slowest were due to a 30m incline up from the A22 and when I walked along a wall to avoid a big puddle (should have gone through it).
I don't really cross train but on Sundays I am in the pool with my two girls as they take swimming lessons and we have to hold them (dunk them). Although it's far from exercise I do tend to try and wiggle my legs for the 30 minutes.
+1 for hoping Emmy had a good Marathon today.
Cleanshoes - Another two things you can do it massage the achilles and calf with Olive Oil when you wake up and before you go to bed and for an exercise/stretch, try standing on the bad leg with the other one ahead of you, crouch and up 6 times, then move the other leg behind you, crouch and up 6x, then move the other leg to other positons like to the side, behind the other leg, in front of the other leg etc. Also a foam roller on the calf will help.
Achilles is something I have had a lot of issues with and something I am always stretching to be safe.
Forgot to say, my Long run pace is supposed to be between 9:20 and 10:20 minute miles. Half of my 12 mile run was too quick.
Good running Lee, and I think we all can sympathise with upping the pace when there's another runner about