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  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Lee - well done on the 12 miler. I'm going to give you a stern face for running faster than LSR pace.  How did you feel after? Was it a nice workout and did you feel like you had more in the tank?

    What did you eat before and how far before leaving? What did you eat afterwards and when?

    Can you post up your plan for next week?I'd also like you to try to fit in a swim session (perhaps after your girls lesson) to cross train and take the ease off your joints. Am happy to negotiate what cross training but would like you to try and fit it in. Maybe something that your wife could also enjoy?

    Today's marathon done. A real struggle with the weather and course!

  • Well done Emmy. If you had the kind of weather we had this morning I can imagine that is was hard.
  • Well done Emmy, hopefully the conditions will be better for you tomorrow, good luck  image

  • Good luck tomorrow with the 2nd Marathon Emmy. The weather isn't supposed to be any better. image

    My legs did, and still do, feel a bit tired after today's 12 miler. I will need to slow down for next week's 16 miler. I could have gone further and probably could have gone faster but not for long

    Next week's plan:

    Monday - Easy 4 Mile

    Tuesday - Easy 8 Mile

    Wednesday - Tempo 5 Mile

    Saturday - Long 16 Mile

    Usually my long run on Saturday will be first thing so I doubt I'll even have time to grab breakfast beforehand. Today I didn't go until 3pm so had a ham sandwich a couple of hours before and just milk and honey afterwards. 

    I'm going to have to re-think cross-training. The way the classes work for the girls on Sunday doesn't allow me to swim. We have to be with our child throughout the lesson and the pool isn't public. Most likely I will need to do something at home. Pillates DVD? or similar.

  •  Can you be secretly pool running during the lesson?- you can do that without actually moving much, if the water is deep enough. You might get some funny looks, though!

    Just back from 13 miles LSR, after a 5 miler yesterday- I was feeling quite good about the back -to-back runs, until I re- checked Stewart's schedule! Also my speed is much slower for the LSR's - I walk/ run a lot, to keep the pace down, which is fine as long as it isn't too cold out.

    Am a bit slower than 4 hr these days- partly due to concentrating more on ultras this last 2 years- but am embarrassed that my weekly mileage is about half of Stewart's - and I'm doing a double marathon the same day he does his marathon. Stewart - you'll smash your targets with that training, I reckon.

    Need to up the mileage, but last year I spent about 2 months with constant glut niggles- when it's too sore to laze on the sofa, things are really bad!

    Am trying more crosstraining- pool running and spinning to compensate for my low mileage, will need to try to gradually increase miles without wrecking myself.

  • Hi everybody hope you are all well image

    Lee, I have a question is the 5 mile tempo run all at tempo pace or do you put in some easy miles before and after, I usually need at least 2 miles to get my aging body ready for a quality session I also try and do some strides before starting the main session.

    Tricalitt, there are many ways to reach you goals I seem to be able to adapt quite well too the high mileage, I couldn't imagine running double marathons are you doing the Edinburgh Glasgow race again this year? thanks for your kind comments I'm forever hopeful of obtaining a good time this year as long as I can stay fit and healthly, I got ill 2 weeks before Lochaber last year image.

    Emmy,  Hope you're now recovering well after you double marathons this weekend, can't wait to hear all about it image

    -----------------------------------------------------

    Today's session was an 18 mile LSR with 10 @ MP I did the 18 miles but only managed 9 @MP the MP section came out @ 9mm for an avgHR of 159(83%), I'm happy enough with the pace too effort at this stage but I hope to see some improvements over the coming weeks.

  • Yes - Glasgow to Edinburgh double -so all in one day, rather than 2 marathons - one on each day- I couldn't do that, as I'd never get going the second day. Wierdly, it was easier than I expected last year, but that would be because I did it so slowly that I only just beat the cut off. Determined to go a bit faster this time!

    Re : eating before LSR- I usually just down a glass of smoothie, then munch on clif shot gels and clif shot bars (or flapjacks) as I go- seems to be OK as long as I start munching immediately I set out.

  • StewartC - All of the Tempo runs have a mile warm-up and cool-down. So my 5 mile Tempo has just 3 miles at Tempo pace.

  • Thanks Lee for clearing that up, i wasn't sure how the session will be run image 

    Tricalitt, I'm sure you will do better this year, I didn't fuel properly today I only had a cup of tea and a slice of toast with jam this morning and I only took a 500ml of water with a high 5 zero tab, no real surprise the last few miles were tough.

  • Hey Emmy, just seen the thread, congrats on being a mentor! Guys, if you want a really committed person to help you out she's the one. Sorry I haven't read back over the whole thing but with your HM times you are very capable of a sub 4, my best is 1.52 and I've got a marathon PB of 3.43. Part of it is knowing how it feels to run tired, good pacing at the start and getting nutrition right, but not relying on it. Too much is worse than too little sometimes I think. Anyway, my piece said, good luck to you all, hope you aren't too wrinkled after your two days of swimming Emmy.

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Lee Clark 70 wrote (see)

    Good luck tomorrow with the 2nd Marathon Emmy. The weather isn't supposed to be any better. image

    My legs did, and still do, feel a bit tired after today's 12 miler. I will need to slow down for next week's 16 miler. I could have gone further and probably could have gone faster but not for long

    Next week's plan:

    Monday - Easy 4 Mile

    Tuesday - Easy 8 Mile

    Wednesday - Tempo 5 Mile

    Saturday - Long 16 Mile

    Usually my long run on Saturday will be first thing so I doubt I'll even have time to grab breakfast beforehand. Today I didn't go until 3pm so had a ham sandwich a couple of hours before and just milk and honey afterwards. 

    I'm going to have to re-think cross-training. The way the classes work for the girls on Sunday doesn't allow me to swim. We have to be with our child throughout the lesson and the pool isn't public. Most likely I will need to do something at home. Pillates DVD? or similar.

    Hi Lee,
    You definitely need to slow down on your LSRs as you'll be feeling it when the mileage starts to kick in. I know it's difficult but just try breathing more slowly and be careful what music you're listening to (if you do) as it can tend to speed you up without you noticing!

    Let me know how your easy 4 mile goes today. When was it? paces etc. Any residual soreness from the LSR? or your cold?

    RE: Nutrition before LSR. I strongly recommend eating breakfast before hand. For some of the smaller LSRs you could get away with a large dinner the night before and a banana but when you start increasing the mileage further - you'll struggle. You'll also need to consider and have in the back of your mind: race day. What will you eat then?

    RE: Crosstraining. I can recommend you a pilates DVD. There's also the insanity plyo workouts which are insane but good for cross training. Can you cycle to/from work or have any chance to do anything during the day?

    Your homework for this week is to try and fit in 1hr cross training. This can be walking, swimming, cycling... but try to get something in.

    StewartC wrote (see)

    Emmy,  Hope you're now recovering well after you double marathons this weekend, can't wait to hear all about it image

    -----------------------------------------------------

    Today's session was an 18 mile LSR with 10 @ MP I did the 18 miles but only managed 9 @MP the MP section came out @ 9mm for an avgHR of 159(83%), I'm happy enough with the pace too effort at this stage but I hope to see some improvements over the coming weeks.

    Morning Stewart. It was a tough two days but it's days like these that teach you mental resilience and not giving in.

    How are you feeling after your sessions? Tired? or are you working out a recovery routine?

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Cont'd
    KateF wrote (see)

    Hey Emmy, just seen the thread, congrats on being a mentor! Guys, if you want a really committed person to help you out she's the one. Sorry I haven't read back over the whole thing but with your HM times you are very capable of a sub 4, my best is 1.52 and I've got a marathon PB of 3.43. Part of it is knowing how it feels to run tired, good pacing at the start and getting nutrition right, but not relying on it. Too much is worse than too little sometimes I think. Anyway, my piece said, good luck to you all, hope you aren't too wrinkled after your two days of swimming Emmy.

    Thanks Kate! You're too kind. Agree about the nutrition and i know that one mistake I made during my marathon training was thinking that just because I had run 18 miles that I could stuff my face full of food afterwards... hence me being one of the only people I know who put ON weight during trainingimage

    So... Just a short round up from the weekend and I wanted to give you a few lessons that i've learnt:

    • Clothing. 'There's no such thing as bad weather; just bad clothing'. When you're training and running for longer than an hour - you need to have the right gear and layers on. Getting cold will just make you ache and miserable.
    • Laps can be fun image
    • Smile. It may sound silly but having a smile on your face and thinking a few positive thoughts tends to improve your mental state and also your posture. ive found that when i smile; my posture rises to where it should be
    • Check your feet. My feet got sodden this weekend and i'm not paying the price. Make sure that you're wearing the right footwear for the terrain.

     

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    tricialitt wrote (see)

    Yes - Glasgow to Edinburgh double -so all in one day, rather than 2 marathons - one on each day- I couldn't do that, as I'd never get going the second day. Wierdly, it was easier than I expected last year, but that would be because I did it so slowly that I only just beat the cut off. Determined to go a bit faster this time!

    Re : eating before LSR- I usually just down a glass of smoothie, then munch on clif shot gels and clif shot bars (or flapjacks) as I go- seems to be OK as long as I start munching immediately I set out.

    Hi tricialitt! I'm the opposite to you! I can handle two on two days but not back to back... well that's the current status at least! I seem to struggle mentally after marathon distance but i'm working my way up!

    What sort of mileage and pace are you running to last on just a smoothie and some flapjack? Are you having a big dinner the night before? or just running on a lower store and using fat reserves?

  • Emmy, Congrats on the back to back marathons, you must have a very good recovery routine, in addition to a will of steel.

    I'm sure gaining weight in training is not that unusual, I bet most of us overestimate the energy 'spent' and compensate accordingly!

    Sunday was 3 x metric miles (1600m) at 7:34 for each effort. The plan called for 2 minute recovery intervals, but I had to stretch that to 3 - 3:30. This was 'run' on the treadmill, I like the constant effort required, but with 1.5% gradient so it's not too much like running downhill.
    Negatives: I hate 1600m intervals, still feeling leggy from Friday, kid on the next treadmill running 1.5 kph faster and could read a book he's putting in that little effort!
    Positives: Another week under the belt (which is looser again). Completed 1600m intervals, which I hate. My other half made a pad to correct my 'hammer-ish' toe that works perfectly. As a result she's now been promoted to foot guru to go along with her kit specialist, supporter-in-chief and voice of reason titles.

    I'm definitely bumping up to four runs a week, Friday convinced me I need more kilometres in my legs. I do spin on a Tuesday, so I'm going to try adding a run after, to turn it into a brick session. Nothing too challenging, just an easy paced 7-8 km.

    Good luck to everyone with their plans for this week.

  • E mmy wrote (see)

    Morning Stewart. It was a tough two days but it's days like these that teach you mental resilience and not giving in.

    How are you feeling after your sessions? Tired? or are you working out a recovery routine?

     

    Hi Emmy,

    Glad you're ok and have come through a tough couple of days, how are your legs feeling? I take it you'll not be running too much this week.

    I'm feeling good today, once I complete my LSR's I concentrate on recovery, re-hydration, fueling and stretching.  I find I recovery fairly well and I'm usually good to go the next day.

    This week is a recovery week according too the plan (55 miles) over six days, I'm not sure if I'll run today or go to the gym and xtrain/body balance, a lot depends on the OH.

    Mon   Rest/ cross train
    Tues  8 miles GA inc 10 x 100m strides
    Wed  12 miles MLR (Might do an MP test)
    Thu    5 miles Recovery
    Fri     10 miles GA inc 10 x 100m strides
    Sat    5 miles Recovery
    Sun   15 miles

    I may move some of these around if I go for a plod today.

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Hi Stewart,

    Lol, No... I'll be running every day image I may do a gym session tomorrow as I'm away with work at the moment and dont have to run the dog tomorrow morning.  It will depend how I feel. At the moment I feel OK - just a little sore to get moving!

    That's good to know that you're recovering well and getting yourself into a routine. Did you hear the interview from Pfizinger on MarathonTalk? That was really interesting to understand some of the technique behind the sessions. What would you move around if you went for a plod today? Would you do the 8 miles? or what would be your factor for deciding?

  • Emmy, you do recover very well, I sometimes find a nice slow run around 3 miles can really freshen up the legs. 

    I heard the interview during the break but couldn't really concentrate on it as there was so much going on in the house, I'll probably listen to at work when I get a spare moment.  If I am to run today I'll do Saturday's recovery run and I'll take that as my rest day.

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Stewart - Yep - if I don't push the race too much I can be fine the next day. I'm surprised how "ok" I feel today. There's a little bit of an ache but nothing major. I have to admit I find it easier to run faster and tend to have less pain if i run 4-4.30 than if i try 4.45-5hrs. I always recommend a short run after a long LSR to let the legs breathe. You always feel better after it!

    It's an interesting interview and it's made me look at the plans in a different light than before. I still don't think that they should be used if ýou're a first timer but if you've got some marathons in your legs and want to improve then it can really help you but you need to commit yourself to it.

  • Re marathon training and putting on weight - I posted something similar elsewhere, but it's worth repeating.

    Roughly speaking, if you weigh 10 stone you burn about 100 calories a mile. So for a 30 mile week, that's about 3,000 extra calories, just over 400 more a day, or equivalent to one Starbucks muffin. At higher mileages you will need more, but it doesn't mean you need to double your portion sizes at every meal.

  • Well done on the double marathons Emmy!

    Thanks for the suggestions re my troublesome ankles, all. I have been doing a lot of stretching and icing and it feels fine now but I skipped yesterday's run just in case. Obviously the worst run to miss but better that at 13/14 weeks out than to make things worse and be out for 2-3 weeks.

    I've got a 7m general aerobic run tomorrow so that should be a good test of it.

    Lee - with the crouching exercise you suggested are we basically talking single-legged squats with the other leg in different positions? I will be getting more strict on doing some bodyweight strength exercises on rest days from now on to help prevent further injuries and these should fit in nicely.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    E mmy wrote (see)

    It's an interesting interview and it's made me look at the plans in a different light than before. I still don't think that they should be used if ýou're a first timer but if you've got some marathons in your legs and want to improve then it can really help you but you need to commit yourself to it.

    Hi image

    I heard the interview and I thought the same.  I had previously looked at P&D and discounted it, but I'm going to look at it again I think.  As you know, I have a marathon in October, so plenty of time for me yet and I've got lots of shorter races in the first part of the year anyway.

  • Cleanshoes - I got that stretch from here. Watch the vid.

    Well done Emmy and all the others who have posted their runs and advice. It's all serving to be very inspirational.

    Easy 4 Mile run done. Splits here.

    Legs are still feeling it from Saturday but at least my cold has gone. 

    I always eat breakfast, just I don't always have it before the Saturday run due to timings. I will try to in future and most likely I will have some Porridge. This is what I usually eat before races along with a Banana and a Harvest Crunch bar. I haven't really thought about Marathon day yet as I haven't made plans for getting to the start yet. I will likely drive to a station that is both easy to get to Greenwich and get to from London (Victoria). If I have to I will eat in the car/ on the train. 

    I should probably give some background on my working week. I don't tend to have an office that I go to. I work from home some days and others I am with customers, mainly in London (via train) with others reachable by car. It's difficult to plan a week ahead as I never really know where I am going to be a day or two before. Most of my midweek runs are done during the day (lunchtime) but if I have a busy day and can't squeeze in the run then it will have to be later in the evening once the girls are down for the night. Mondays and Wednesdays my wife is out at Boot Camp so that makes an evening run even trickier. If that isn't possible then that is when Thursday comes in. This week Thursday is out of the question as I have a Sales meeting in London that will go on into the evening. 

    One thing I can do is walk to the station. It's a 15 minute walk but I still tend to drive closer so the walk is only 3-4 minutes. 

    I have had a look at Insanity. Isn't it a bit too intense during Marathon training? I should do something to improve my core though. Let me know what you suggest and I will take a closer look or revisit Insanity.

    Oh, and as for running with music, I don't usually. On my long and easy runs I listen to Marathon Talk. I am still a few episodes behind but I expect to catch up very soon seeing as how my long run now see me get through a whole episode. Then I switch to music. For the Tempo runs I run without my iPod as I do raceday too.

     

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Hi Lee,

    I want to keep a close eye on your aches as normally you should be OK after your LSR after 48hours. It's good to already start considering race day activities for your runs/long runs as you want your stomach to get used to the food and experiments are always best when you have time/facilities to recover.

    I remember trying out a new cereal for breakfast as I travel a lot with my job. I ate the cereal and went for a run and ended up with a serious clenching effort to get home without making like a bear in the woods!

    RE: Easy 4 miles. Well done for keeping within the easy pace guidelines. Did you speed up on the last mile because you were feeling good? or because you wanted to get home?

    It's a great idea to run through lunch as you can make the most of the daylight.

    Your job sounds very similar to mine so I can relate very well to the schedule issues and turnarounds. Firstly - kudos to your wife for boot camp! One of the key things for the runs is making sure that you're hydrated and also giving yourself the time. I'm stupid enough to get up at 4/5am to get it done before I travel but with Kids - it can be a real juggling act so lets see how you get on and try to work something in (even if it's getting the kids to kiddy yoga!).

    RE: Cross training. The insanity program has different programs. There's the core balance and stability which has more strengthening and not so much high impact and there's also some of the plyo moves that you can take and do at your own pace rather than the insane pace they do. It was just an idea of a dvd that could work. I also have this dvd: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000M06GLU/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and it's good for strengthening your core. Your wife might also be interested?

    That's good to know about the music. I used to listen to marathon talk on my training runs too. It's helpful for keeping a good pace and being a distraction. i used to listen to radio 4 comedy until my breathing kept going out of sync because i was laughing too much!

    What do you think about the current schedule? Are you happy with the runs and how you're feeling?

  • Lee good news that the cold has now gone, I woke up with some sniffles this morning fingers crossed it doesn't turn into anything, a good 4 mile run yesterday, hopefully the legs are feeling a little fresher after your run image

    Emmy, looks like a good video, the OH might be interested in it too image

    -----------------------------------------------

    No run last night decided to go to the gym and do some weights, concentrating on the lower body, followed up with the body balance class, almost 2 hours of cross training, I'm feeling good and looking forward to the run this evening, I'll run to and from JS tonight, so the overall mileage will all depend on which group I take.

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Stewart - I have a few DVDs that I take if i'm away on business and cant run outdoors so it makes a good workout and good cross training.

    Well done on a cracking set of cross training! Thats a great effort. Do you plan to have a focused effort and then vary the mileage? or what's your plan for deciding on the group?

  • Emmy, Tuesday's and Thursday's are Jog Scotland nights and I'm one of many leaders, the group splits up into various mileage groups ranging from 1 - 7+ miles, I tend to take groups 4 thru 6, so the pace can vary depending on which group I'm assigned too.

    For example if I take the 6 mile group, the pace will usually be around 9:00 - 9:30, but the pace is dependent on the group makeup and the total mileage for the night would be around 10 miles with the run before and after.

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Ah! Jog Scotland =JS. That sounds like a great way to give back to the running community!

  • It sure is, I joined the group just after completing my first 5k in 2012, became a jog leader in October of the same year, I haven't looked back since image

     

  • Easy 8 Miles Done!

    Felt really good, really invigorating. Pacing was tricky as I had to run around the town and there were some big hills. Overall I was where I wanted to be pace wise. There is something about running in the dark. 

    RE Yesterday's run - the run ends on a hill so the last mile is always a bit quicker. That said I do try to finish strong. Today's run was very much downhill.

    RE Current Schedule - Today's run made me feel a lot better about it. I'm confident about tomorrow's Tempo run but I am going to drive to the start of it rather than run up a steep hill for the first mile. The legs don't need that at the moment.

    Listened to the Haile Gebrselassie episode of MT today and who appeared on the podium twice (once with her dog running 19 of the 26 miles)? Who knew my mentor was a serial podiumer (if that's the right word)? 

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Morning Lee, Yep - the secret is out. I'm a serial podium placerimage

    I find running in the dark a lot easier as well. This mornings run felt a lot easier.

    Thanks for clarifying about the run and your pace. It sounds great that you felt great after it and your pacing looks good and consistent. It sounds like a good idea to not start on a hill.

    Stewart - how did your run go last night? How long did you go for in the end?

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