RW Forum 5 - sub 4.30

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  • Rachel – Lucky you with the no tummy issues.  I would say that, especially as you up the mileage, your tum can do all sorts of funny things, especially if you put a highly concentrated gel in it, so do practice and find what works for you.  Even with all the pre-longrun carb load, during run nutrition and recovery, I still have massive RUNger on a Monday, so its always good to make sure I have healthy choices in, so I don’t make a trip to KFC!! image (which incidentally is where my family took me to celebrate my first marathon!).  I’m also not much of a sweet tooth, so lucozade products in general are too sickly for me, unless i’m really desperate!

    Jenf – You make a really good point that its important to try other gels and sweets – ther are slightly different formulations in each drink, and even from different flavours of gels.  I use SiS Gels and One flavour has 19g of carbs whilst another has 22g of carbs per packet!

    Shakira C – Good on you for practising with them.  I would make sure you take on the instructions given with the gel.  I’m making the assumption that London still gives out Lucozade gels, in which case you need to drink quite a bit of water with them, otherwise, they can sit in your stomach, and the high concentration of sugar in your tummy actually starts drawing water from the rest of your body, which during the marathon will already be somewhat dehydrated, to neutralise the sugar concentration.  This is what can make you feel sick.  I use SiS because you don’t need to have that extra water with them – they are a bit bigger to carry, but I feel they save me from a major risk in the race.  I think High 5 are also ok without water.

    MemsahibR – Good tip on night time tea J.  I have a cuddly elephant with a lavender pillow that you can warm up in the microwave...The aroma of Lavendar is supposed to help you sleep...  Can also help if you have a bit of muscle soreness too, to put a warm pillow like that on your sore muscles.

    Booktrunk – You are SOOOO right about at 20 miles they get sickly... I try to front load the carb consumption in the race for that reason, so when you can’t face any more sugar, you can be confident of just drinking water to thirst and taste... If you can arrange for someone you know to be around there with orange segments, with all the pith cut off so you can just grab them and suck the juice, I would highly recommend it J  At Halstead marathon, the whole community comes out to support, so despite it only being a few hundred running, you do have your pick of refuelling (and you can leave your own drinks bottles on the course).

    Sub60 – I’ve forgotten to give Minni’s routine a try just yet... Just eaten dinner, so will save it for a little bit laterimage

  • Rachel - Question - how are you coping with such high mileage?  I think you said 42 miles last week?  I did 35, and I think my top ever has been 38! Although of course I'm planning on going a bit higher this time around.

     

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    I guess I better do Minni's session tonight! image

  • Can you video yourself so we can watch? image 

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    I'll do a selfie and post it!image 

  • Angela last week was the highest mileage I've done. It felt Ok during the week, I guess we'll see how I feel for tomorrow's session after today's rest. 

    I too have done the Minni session today, but started off with only 30 seconds per exercise, will be upping that more I think over the next weeks. I've also done rolling and stretching!

     

  • Bootcamp session for me tonight. Indoor session as field we use like a sponge. Lots of core work and upper body although started with fiendish squats challenge. Core/upper body was 100 reps of each exercise done as ten reps of two exercises ten times. Hard work but good fun.

  • I will do that evil core workout ........ 

     

    eventually

    By the time Loch Ness rolls around, you'll all have done my nutrition research for me image  I'm going to give the SiS gels a go because of not needing to take water with them. I currently have a fondness for ZipVit rhubarb & custard gels, but I'm the only person I know who likes them. I think they have a Marmite effect. 

    Now there's an idea - Marmite flavour energy gel image

  • Savoury gels? Just don't do it for me. Sour/citric yes, savoury No. Although if you were to have them, what about bacon flavoured? image

  • Euuuuw!!!  I like the idea of a gin and tonic flavoured gel... image. I have a sample pack from high 5 and one of theirs is mojito flavour! Ive not tried it yet though...

  • Oh god Rachel, don't get me started on the bacon theme ....

  • I'll be trying High5 gels on Saturday- bought them ages ago and have been avoiding  a) trying them, fear of them being yucky, tho have multiple flavours to try b) using them as have been trying to train to teach fat burn. 

    Am still not sure about sleep: long run was in the morning, just chilled out for the rest of the day (alongside refuelling and stretching/rolling), was within my 3week Chrimbo hol so not mentally overwhelmed or anything like that..... 

  • thisisnatty I think sometimes poor sleep, it just happens.  I believe it can be caused by big adjustments in atmospheric pressure - I think we all had poor sleep when we were between storms...  that's my theory, anyway image Good luck with trying the gels.  Whilst there is a place for fasted training, especially if you are trying to lose fat, I don't think its a good idea on the long run.  If you fatigue too early, you just open yourself up to all the risks - depleted energy for a long time after your long run can leave your immune system depressed etc.  (see Coach Steve'e word on this on Malcs' thread)  No doubt Ruth will have something to say as well...

    Now where is Minni's selfie?

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Pipski has once again been pointed in this direction....  image

     

  • PipskiPipski ✭✭✭

    I'M HERE, I'M HERE!!!!!!! OMIGOD........I can't believe I won!  So sorry everyone, I've been away getting drunk all over Xmas....this is so funny....I've never won anything!  I have emailed Angela....my mentor.....Oooh, I feel like a celebrity with a personal trainer.  So just to keep you all posted, before Angela whipps me into shape....I have been running over Xmas (well dragging myself round the streets with a hangover)....I managed to run 15 miles (last 4 miles was agony, but no way was I going to quit) and then I went away for 3 days where I had planned on running but Chardonnay took hold of me instead.  Came home, ran a lousey 6 miler as my achilles were killing me.  Had to then drop out of another long run on the weekend and then bang got a virus.   I'm about to jump out the door and see if my achilles are any better (as I have new trainers) and then hopefully get back on track.  Tonight will be my first night with no vino......I say that every night....but as I now have an audience.....I shall be your fitness queen!   So watch this space.....oh and put on a bit of weight, times have slowed time a little but I'm gunning for improvement.....will be in touch later !!!! x

     

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Pipski - sorry but I have to ask why didn't you check in sooner? 

    It looks like Anglea's work is well cut out now with both Rachelgen and Pipski.

  • PipskiPipski ✭✭✭

    I didn't log on all over Xmas, was so busy with friends and family.  I also didn't think I had any chance of winning either.....I'm a bit confused, you say she is busy with Rachelgen and Pipski....I am Pipski, so did you mean someone else?  Would be such a shame if I lost due to being way :

  • When you didn't respond, Rachel stepped up after Angela had kept the thread going pretty much single handed, otherwise there would have been no thread.

  • image  But the more the merrier guys.. right ?!?!  image  I am very happy to mentor both Pipski and Rachelcgen... who knows, maybe a little competition between them would be an even better motivatorimage  Perhaps Pipski, if you could copy your pitch on here, or give a brief description of your running history, the marathon you've entered, and then this week's training schedule, so that everyone knows where you are that would be handy.  Then if you could email me your entire training plan so I can have a look, then we'll be in business...

     

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Excellent Angela! 

    Btw my selfies are coming!! 

  • I'll leave it to the team/Angela to decide what to do...will still be around!

    Anyway, today's run complete. This one needed a little effort, but not too bad, it still felt Ok after last weeks increased mileage. 

    The planned run was 9miles with 5 at 15k-HM pace, so I targeted 9:20.

    The splits were 10:53/10:32/9:11/9:14/9:19/9:24/9:16/11:35/10:50.

    This gives me an average for the 5miles of 9:16 - within target.  I did start off too fast and had to work to slow it down, but the other miles were OK to keep around the right pace. There was a little tiny bit of stop/start as I had to tiptoe across puddles.kerbs etc in some places to try and keep feet dry.

    The legs were playing 'moving injury' game today, as different muscle groups decided to play up. Nothing too painful, nothing lasted the whole run, just different areas, but I'll make sure I stretch role the ones that were noticeable to make sure they're getting some care.

     

  • I think selfies of doing strange balancy core work should be a necessity for all on this threadimage 

    JK!!! image 

  • ah Angela, cross post. Definitely, competition would be great if you're happy to do that image

  • Rachel looking at those times do you have a target in mind for the marathon?  Im assuming its a bit more at the 4 hour end of 4-4:30?

  • Hi Rachel we already decided to keep you!!! image  and we had a contingency in place in case Pipski appeared, which meant I mentor 2 instead of one image

    Yet another run excellently executed there Rachel I always find with a faster section  there is the tendency to go off a bit quick, but as long as you're keeping an eye on it and not going at breakneck speed you're doing well.  With that 'moving injury' I think that is jst the general  aches of marathon training - you had a BIG week last week, so your legs are bound to grumble this week.  I would say, if you can, perhaps spend 30 mins having a good stretch this evening, and noting any muscles that seem tight - then these are the ones you focus your foam rolling on the nxt few days.

    Mile 4 out of 5 was a little slower than the others.  I suspect this was psychological barrier going up rather than your body couldn't handle it.  Start thinking of strategies you can use to push through this - when you are between 3/4 and 4/5 through the marathon, you will need to draw on these strategies.

  • sub60just: yes, I'm training at a faster pace than 4:30, so picked today's pace somewhere between the 15k/HM for a 4:20 marathon. I've got a spreadsheet full  of different targets, from McMillan etc.  I am adjusting them as a go based on how I feel, what various runs have done.  

    There is a lot written that says i should train at the pace I've already done - which gives me a a 4:42 pace off my HM time, but at 4:24 from my last 10k, so I'm targeting just a little faster than that. I'm also aware that I'm going to be in the middle of a huge pack and having to deal with lots of people so do need to be able to run faster pace at some bits to make up the slow bits!

     

  • Angela,  I looked at that and it was the turnaround mile with a HUGE puddle that I balanced across a narrow kerb to get across to slow me down. BUT I did walk a few paces at turnaround and post puddle both ways, so it is brain going 'just stay slow'. The obvious is not to have any reason to be slowing down and then have to work to get started again, but that may not be always possible. So I'm starting to think about how it hurts more if I slow for longer even if I want to. 

  • Rachel interesting debate there about train at the pace you've done, or train where you want to be.  I personally pick the latter, but start slowly.  If you speak to my mate Malcs on one of the asics threads, he'll tell you I started my training for Manchester marathon back in October.  I was doing various sessions that would get me used to my intended marathon pace of 8:30, without the stress of a marathon training week of 35-50 miles.  For example, a 4 mile run with the middle 2 miles at that pace - in October I found it pretty hard.  This Saturday just gone, I managed 5 miles at that pace and slightly harder just fine.  And I still have 3 months to train to get me there for the full marathon.  A leap of faith is a good thing too - keeps you motivated image

    You are still in that phase where you can get significant speed improvement, as am I, and I've been running 5 years.  I think if you train a little bit faster (for the fast sessions, not the slow ones) you will see a better improvement.

  • Angela, thanks I'll take a look at that. I did some minor adjustments to the plan this morning, making some sessions slightly faster, will take another look about speeding them up just a tad. 

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