Do You Trust The Old Bill?

2

Comments

  • Flob wrote (see)
    I remember the police shot a man in hackney for allegedly having a rifle, it turned out to be a table leg. Maybe he had threatened a police informant with it?

    Power corrupts. If then makes it worse when the murderers. thieves and liars are telling us how we should behave. That is what I find objectionable.

    Ok but let's get it in perspective.

    As Sideburn says it's a few out of 130,000.

  • Kathy HKathy H ✭✭✭

    Flob, do you think that the police then shot the man because they were corrupt? Rather, I think that these incidents happen usually because stupid mistakes are made. And then the police get scared - of public criticism, of being sued or sacked - and lies are made to try to cover up.

    We all know the police do a hard job. And often they are expected to deal with stuff without the adequate training, understanding or experience.

    Examples: Hillsborough, the shooting of De Menezes, the case when police stormed the house of a terrorist suspect and shot one of the innocent householders. Many more cases of inept, rather than corrupt, behaviour.

  • XX1XX1 ✭✭✭

    Kathy -- Trying to cover up inept behaviour isn't corrupt right image

  • Flob wrote (see)

    The police should not get away with killing someone just because they were seen as a bad person. If that was the way it worked then we'd all be in their sights at one point in our lives.


    Er...speak for yourself image

  • Obviously there is police corruption - you only have to look at the recent press reports about Operation Tiberius to realise that there is probably a lot more than we might have assumed - unless you assumed there was a fair bit of course.  

    As far as cover ups go - well stuff like the actions of the police post Hillsborough aren't the actions of one or two rogue officers - and the way some enquiries into politicians and child abuse have been dropped is very suspect - and that comes from some of the police officers that worked on the enquiries.   

    So Karen/12YAS I reckon there is a lot more corruption and covering up than if you'd asked me the same question 10 years ago.   

  • I think the answer is that the police are under more scrutiny now than previously. The actions of the police never used to be questioned - now they are and that tells me there was probably more corruption 10, 20 or 30 years ago, not less.

     

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    I agree with Screama. There is a lot less corruption than before its just a lot more of it is actually becoming public knowledge.
  • Yeah I meant that - if you'd asked me 10 years ago I'd have been less aware of the corruption that exists and answered accordingly - not that it's got worse.  

    Not sure there is much less now though - there may be less and you can make an argument that it would be harder for serious corruption but I'm open minded on that.   Restrictions on press freedom in the future may end up countering some of the increased scrutiny via less formal media.   There is stuff went on in the past nobody would have guessed at at the time.   

  • I think most of it is already taken care of under the police's own procedures - this is why there's so much paperwork these days.

    And we have things like audio and videotaped interviews.When it used to be a suspect alone in a room with a copper or two, theoretically they could get away with all sorts of stuff including intimidation and physical assault. They couldn't do that now.

  • Tie Patsy to the post and whup her!

  • 12 Years A Slave wrote (see)

    Facts, Screamapillar,image

    5% of the Police Force are Ethnic Minornity 

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-workforce-england-and-wales-31-march-2013/police-workforce-england-and-wales-31-march-2013 

     

    And what the feck has that got to do with police corruption?

     

  • image Fact you Screampillarimage

  • Right back at you Suss - I mean Philomena...image

  • 12 Years A Slave wrote (see)

    Facts, Screamapillar,image

    5% of the Police Force are Ethnic Minornity 

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-workforce-england-and-wales-31-march-2013/police-workforce-england-and-wales-31-march-2013

     

     

    5% of the Police ticked a box saying they considered themselves part of an ethnic minority (remember the officer is unlikely to be obliged to answer the question) out of a country where 87.2% ticked a box saying they consider themselves white. 
     

    Does this make the Police institutionally racist, corrupt or otherwise untrustworthy?

    Discuss...

  • All been said I think. Good and bad everywhere so there awill be corrupt police officers but I think generally they are committed to doing a good job.

    I think corruption is a lot less now than it was due to scrutiny. Hillsborough was a diabolical cover-up although even then there were officers that wanted to be honest and were told to get in line basically.

    Plebgate - not good on image but you know that they were given a lot of abuse. Mitchell has always insisted he never said Pleb but has never admitted what was actually said, So for me that pretty much confirms he didn't use the word but probably said as much in other terms. They get abuse every weekend from OIKs and probably had enough of getting it from high ranking government officials as well.

    Shootings - I would be interested in knowing the facts on this but suspect there are more police officers shot each year than people shot by the Police. They need to be careful that the threat has been correctly identified i.e. shooting somebody with a table-leg is not good but if you turn up to an incident where a gun has been reported then you are tending to expect one and this can lead to mistakes although they are rare.  The furore where they shoot somebody with a replica gun always amazes me.Replica is the wrong term, tjhey aren;t fakes. They are real guns with the firing pin removed which is not something you can identify at 20 feet when somebody is pointing at you and effing nad bliding how they are going to blow your head off. If you point a gun at somebody you are likely to get shot.

  • SideBurn wrote (see)
    12 Years A Slave wrote (see)

    Facts, Screamapillar,image

    5% of the Police Force are Ethnic Minornity 

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-workforce-england-and-wales-31-march-2013/police-workforce-england-and-wales-31-march-2013

     

     

    5% of the Police ticked a box saying they considered themselves part of an ethnic minority (remember the officer is unlikely to be obliged to answer the question) out of a country where 87.2% ticked a box saying they consider themselves white. 
     

    Does this make the Police institutionally racist, corrupt or otherwise untrustworthy?

    Discuss...

    You can't draw any conclusions from it at all. You are talking about 5% of 130,000, 87% of 63 million and the ethnic make up of the 1000 or so people in the survey hasn't even been discussed as far as I know.

  • The Asian community for example are often very influenced by their culture. Parents steering their children to being doctors means that there is probable a larger ratio per capita of doctors than there are police. There is no reason why there shouldn't be a lot more asian footballers but the culture steers them towards hockey and cricket. Not the only reason but maybe one reason why there are less officers from ethnic backgrounds.

  • Also, if they included Scotland in that report it would skew the numbers further.  Whilst we have a growing Asian population in the country, I can't recall ever seeing a black or Asian police officer outside of the country.  Walk in to any hospital though.....Greeny has a very valid point. There are a number of Asian girls on my course (Law degree).  Two of them would rather do anything else but law - one of them wants to be a beautician!  Their parents however have told them that they 'have' to enter in to what they deem a respectable career.   

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    What about her sitcom?
  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Why the name change Karen? That's all we really want to know?
  • So what have the Miranda Rights got to do with anything ?



    Hint you are in the UK not the USA
  • GertieGertie ✭✭✭
    12 Years A Slave wrote (see)
      Miranda Rights
    • You have the right to remain silent.
    • If you do say anything, what you say can be used against you in a court of law.
    • You have the right to consult with a lawyer and have that lawyer present during any questioning.
    • If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you if you so desire.
    • If you choose to talk to the police officer, you have the right to stop the interview at any timeimage

    Why are you bringing the US police into this?  The Miranda Rights have nothing to do with the UK.

  • Wall, meet head.

    Head, this is wall.

     

    Don't do anything we wouldn't do *nudge, nudge imageimage*

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