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Valencia Marathon 2014
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bobdidmadrid - my (likely terrible) maths has that down as being around 5.40/km?
will run for food - it's good to get out of that habit anyway, I find overrelying on the GPS means you can misjudge the pace. I break down a marathon in my mind as being a 2k warm up with 4x 10ks
Good maths tmbrntt. I was thinking of it as 7x6km - one for each day of the week but all done in one go, count down the days as I go. Don't know why I bother though- it's still 42km, 26 miles and it is still going to hurt!
Slight tangent, but does anyone who's done the race before remember if there were any pacer groups? Hoping there'll be someone around the 3.30/3.40 mark who I can just tuck in with...
Hi All,
Entered this one a while ago ... looking forward to it have only heard good things - and something about a free beer at the end which makes the £500 weekend worthwhile
hehe....
Attempting to go sub 3 ... on a minimalist 30-40 mile a week training plan ... could be interesting.
Looks nice and flat - like that.... we did Barcelona earlier in the year so hoping its not as hot as it was there.... 12C would be perfect - please - thank you
Cheers,
Doug
tmb - I'd recommend using your own pacing - GPS watch as these pacers can be a bit random sometimes.... good to have them as reference though.... you should see the mass of ppl who stick to the 3 hour pacers.... and then by the end he's on his own
Its a good idea to bank a small amount of time in the first half if going for a target, as there will unavoidably be some slowing down in the final km unless you are running many miles as week. Yes the pros can reverse split.
Bob - having ways to break up the marathon is a good way of preparing yourself, having points where you take on a gel is something to look forward to reward yourself etc. I go for 4 gels total one with caffeine for latter stages.
Nicole - I would avoid headphones if you can as you will end up immersed in your own world - embrace the atmosphere of the event and others around you.
Unfortunately that's the least of my problems right now. I've struggled for weeks with various niggles/injuries and have missed a lot of training especially the last couple of weeks. I ran theRoyal Parks half on Sun and was really pleased despite everything to get a PB by 2min, 1:53:58. Unfortunately now I'm a bit of a wreck. I have a very tight/inflamed tendon diagnosed which is causing ankle and foot pain on weight bearing, I'm also getting pain in the same calf and hamstring after the race. I've been advised not to run at all again this week and maybe not much/at all before Valencia, but to try to keep my fitness up with swimming/exercise bike etc.
Am trying to stay positive but feeling v nervous. It's only my second marathon and the first one the comfort of having done all the training was what got me though! The only good thing is at least I've done 2 x 20 milers already, the last one 2.5 weeks ago.
Would definitely appreciate any advice on this situation, is it possible to get through the next month without losing everything I've worked so hard for?
I'm not really the right person to advise you here Nicole other than to say two things.
Firstly, resting is essential. Any thoughts of getting back out there when you still have 'issues' could mean the end of your race and as I was going to offer to sing to overcome your music needs, you would be doubly disappointed!
Secondly, your levels of fitness 2-3 weeks ago were way ahead of where you were for London and also way ahead of where I was at that time. I have had a good couple of weeks, did my third 20 miler this morning. However, I would imagine that all things being equal and you getting back to running fitness, we will line up fairly even in Valencia. I will be doing one more 20 but apart from that will be merely 'ticking over'. Got a week in Portugal next week and intend just doing gentle middle distance runs to keep weight down. I am confident that we have every chance of getting over that finish line with either gold, silver or bronze. Gold= sub 4. silver = PB. Bronze = enjoying the day. I have a feeling it could be all three!
Take care and be positive.
Bob
I think that was probably more than two things! As my grandfather used to say
"there are 3 types of people in this world - those who can count and those who can't"
Its seems that research suggests that the aerobic development you are after for the marathon in terms of capillery development etc happens on runs longer than 90mins but no significant extra effect beyond 2h30 .... that would suggest that unless you are a 2h50 marathoner than 20 miles is actually too far for a long run.... going off time might be better all round as it breaks the body down way less.
As i'm training a relatively low mileage for my aim this time round i'm doing more medium / long runs of around 90mins instead.... will be interesting to see the difference.
Makes sense to turn up on the start line with the body working rather than being semi fit and having to hobble round
... the swimming suggestion is good and keep the run mileage low until the body is ready - throw the training plan out the window as plans don't factor in how you feel on any given day. Most ppl feel that they have to get their 20 miler in on the weekend even though there body is not recovered. Injuries pretty common in these situations.... good luck still plenty of time to recover and I guess you are aiming for 4 hours which would suggest based on that above theory that your long runs don't need to be longer than 15 ... but everyone is different! 
I think a lot of the benefit of the 20 milers is psychological Banksy. It played a huge part in my relative success in Madrid to line up knowing I had done 4x20 miles and it will be the same in Valencia. Each time I do one my confidence goes sky high. Nicole you've done plenty this year so no worries there.
I must say this round of training has been much more straightforward than last time. I have replaced a lot of the shorter speed work with more medium long tempo and mileage building. Last time, any injuries I got tended to come after the quite intensive interval work I did and to be honest at 58 and seeking sub 4 hours, I don't think they added much to my marathon performance. I feel at least as fit, a few pounds lighter and happy that I have prepared well. Set myself right up now haven't I!
Absolutely will be great psychologically if you are wolving the 20milers down like there is no tomorrow? However, consider the situation where someone starts to really breakdown mentally at 15 miles and drags themselves through the last 5 perhaps after a heavy training week and injures themselves. Obviously for the race itself you may do a 2 or 3 week taper reducing mileage each week to line up fresh....
My first marathon I did one 18 miler 2 weeks before.... along with about 30 miles a week steady and ran 3:16 ... admittedly the last 6 were tough.
You sound like an EM bob (endurance Monster) ie you find the longer stuff easier than the shorter speedier stuff.... hence why you relish the longer long run.... if it works for you stick with it. Its just the mantra that seems to be hammered throughout the marathon running community that your longest 5 runs should equal 100 miles ... frankly I think weighing up the evidence this is not right for the majority .... Having said that I haven't done a proper long run yet so best get out there and do a 20 miler
....my aim for Valencia is 2:59:07.... may need to hire a moped
Ha! Endurance Monster - you've got me spot on Banksy! Absolutely right, I feel much more comfortable with longer rather than shorter runs. My Pb's bear that out with half and full marathon much better than 5/10k. You are also spot on with the dangers of sticking rigidly to a plan. I am very lucky being retired as I can pick and choose the days I do my long runs - always making sure I feel right physically and mentally. Furthermore, if I get to 14/15 miles and don't feel good I just cut it short and don't force it - as you say recipe for disaster. If I beat 4 hours by the margin you aim to break 3 hours i'll be delighted.
Think I might get 'Endurance Monster' printed on my vest for Valencia!
Interesting theories Banksy - makes me feel a bit better about the missed runs! I pushed really hard at Royal Parks so hopefully will have gained some fitness from that even if it's downhill again for a while. Have booked a gym induction tomorrow so I can go and use the equipment. A bit depressed that I will now need to start dieting so my weight doesn't balloon without the counterbalance of running ????
Just to check that this isn't too insane, my training schedule (which can be described as relaxed at best, just ensuring I have a few core runs per week and fitting everything in around it, but I come in with a good base of fitness) for the next few weeks is very much doing basic maintenance running through the week (3 runs and a speed workout totalling around 20-25 miles) and then long runs at the weekends.
On Sunday I did 30k at target pace (5 min kms) and felt fine, finishing with a 4.30 kilometre and not really struggling for breath.
This weekend I plan to do the first 35k of the London Marathon route (because, well, why not?) but not worry about pace too much (perhaps for the first 20 or so), and then the following weekend run around 37/38k but perhaps try and keep the first 30k on pace, and then start tapering out from there with maybe one run at around 25k the following weekend. Unlike the London marathon route where I'll have frequent stoppages for road crossings however, the 38k route will be on the lea valley towpath where there won't be any stoppages and as such no place to hide!
To me it doesn't sound too insane as I recover pretty quickly (plus take post LSR nutrition and stretching seriously), but just to get a sense check!
Also, regarding headphones, my philosophy is to start without and then introduce them when the going starts to get a little tougher!
Tmbrntt - another 'endurance monster'! Like me, it sounds like you sort of enjoy the challenge of the longer run. When I did my last marathon I actually missed the 20 milers afterwards - wouldn't want to do them without a purpose though. I expect many would say that 38k is a bit far, but you know your own body and your recovery powers.
I think you need to revise up your target pace from 3:30 currently to more like 3:10 if you are finding 30k at 5min ks v easy.... personally i wouldn't go above 32-34k there doesn't seem to be much benefit in that it seems v how much it will damage.... better to sling in a threshold run to see how fast you really are. (total run around the 20km mark) ... I do one of these a week as a medium long run midweek.... and then a 5min / km or 8min Mile longer run if I remember at the weekend hehe
ie do a few k to warm up then - run at threshold pace which is basically as fast as you can run "out of breath" so only able to have broken conversation - that should be just over your HM pace.... and not far off your true potential marathon pace.
I ran my first marathon in 4:52 (Dressed as a giant dog) ... and the second in 3:16 .... but the 4:52 was alot more painful over the last few miles.... best to get it out the way quicker I reckon
38k seems too long to me too. You don't want to leave your best runs in training and under perform on race day.
banksy7 - I wouldn't say easy, just comfortable? But perhaps you are right, maybe I should be looking at going a little speedier. 3.10 might be ambitious as I set a half mara PB through this training process of 1.35 and, while relatively okay after that, wasn't really in the position to do another 13.1 miles of it (although I hadn't really tapered)! But I'll give the threshold run some thought and work out my training accordingly!
pcleasby - the 38k is, if I'm being honest, entirely psychological. I blew up in Paris after about 35k (though had been hit by a bike a few days before which hardly helped) and haven't run that distance since. Just to get to the point where I can say "okay, it's only 5k more from here" (so actually 37k then) in training would, I suspect, enable me to taper in a much better mood than otherwise!
With the extra training benefit you could conceivably have a HM PB around 1:32 - 1:33 now ... add 7mins to that time and times by 2 gives you 3:20 fairly comfortably. So perhaps head out on a 3:20 schedule and see what happens?
When I ran 3:16 ..... I couldn't believe how easy 3:09 pace felt - until about half way... and then the wheels started to fall off a bit - and then a bit more..... but that was on fairly average / minimal training.... my HM PB at the time was 1:29 ..... its now 1:24 so in theory the sub 3 hours is doable - hmm
My training has been sadly hit and miss. Not in the sub 3 shape that I hoped. I really need to be in top nick just to shade under it. I may engage in some marathon tourism instead. I've looked t the weather in Valencia at the moment, 29-30 degrees !!!
I hope it gets colder quickly.
A disrupted Friday evening meant my Saturday morning LSR following the London Marathon route wasn't my best. Reaffirmed the importance of resting the day before and getting a good night's sleep. Knocked my confidence slightly but at least it was circumstantially bad rather than just outright bad. Although, all in, it capped a seven day period with my highest ever weekly mileage, so perhaps shouldn't be too disappointed.
One final strong run this weekend (paring back towards the 30k marker) should hopefully restore my confidence!
Also, how dull is the London marathon route by itself! Without the crowds and event it's absolutely pants, largely just dual carriageways and dull high roads.
PCleasby - weather hits 33c this week! Seems to be warmest in mid-afternoon, hopefully the four weeks will be sufficient time for it all to cool down a bit
I do hope so, I'm rubbish in the heat. I could never imagine doing a desert marathon.
Yes the heat would put most goals out by a few percent at least.... anything more than 15C on the day will have an adverse effect... this happened to almost everyone in Barcelona in March. It got up to around 22C by the time we hit 20 miles.... ppl suffering from cramp etc all over the place... Cost me at least an extra 4 minutes... but it had been quite cool up to about 10 miles.
Wouldn't get disheartened tm ... doing the London marathon route without the road closures etc sounds like insanity to me
.... Up here in Sheffield am a fan of getting out on the trails into the countryside rather than inhaling diesel fumes. Even in London that possible along the Thames towpath and the parks etc.. some great flat long run routes around.
Managed a 16 miler tonight on a blustery tuesday evening.... quite happy about that as felt quite strong at the end and only had the one gel. Almost worth a 20 miler for me hehe...
Might attempt back to back long runs with something tomorrow depending on what the body is saying.....
Half marathon on Sunday which is quite hilly (Worksop) - the plan is to run it at marathon pace... no quicker.... ie 1:29:30 .... we shall see.... its getting close! Thinking that a 2 week taper this time round might be the way forward to fit in an extra high mileage week as have been lazy till now hehe. Have a good week all.
Bansky7 - yeah usually I run long along towpaths, in parks, along the thames or on roads that are a bit quieter/conducive for running (some great running to be had around Crouch End and Hampstead if you know it at all; I live in a much less fancy part of town I must add!), the marathon route was a sheer curiosity, and one which has been completely sated!
Sounds like we're all going to need to hydrate (well, during the race, ahem) a little more than planned then! As long as we aren't still out there at 3pm then we should all be fine... Hilly half should be good prep, the flats of Valencia will feel much easier for it!
Completed final 20 miler today before heading off to Portugal for a week, tomorrow. Not quite as warm there but still low 20's which is probably as high as it is likely to be in Valencia in 3 weeks or so. I really don't think it will be a problem (famous last words!), and if it is it's one of those things we have no control over. Any ideas about gels in hand luggage anyone?
Yes gels are fine in hand luggage but they need to go in those clear plastic bags. My gels at High 5 60ml ones and I generally take 5 of them with me. 4 for the race and 1 spare.
Anyone help with these questions?