Good length for weekly long runs?

Hi,

Bearing in mind I'm not doing marathon training, how long is too much for a weekly long run? Is running 10-13 miles at 30-40 seconds per mile slower than my 10k pace ok for a weekly run? What distance (assuming I worked up to it bit by bit) would be too long to recover from within 24hours?

Comments

  • If you did add just 40 seconds a mile and did a half marathon distance- it would nearly be as fast as your HM race time I reckon. So too fast.
  • Depends on your motivation / objectives...  but I think most people can run 16-18 miles without draining their resources.   But as cougie says...  from a training viewpoint, I think you're running too fast to get maximum benefit from your long runs.

  • For long run read long S-L-O-W run.

    All about getting the miles in and spending time on your feet.  Should be able to hold a converation on the run.  You could also chance a short recovery run the following day just to keep things moving.  No more than 10 - 15% increase in overall mileage per week otherwise you risk injury.  Dont forget to factor in 2 non-consecutive rest days a week (maybe one of those days being a cross-training session).

  • 90seconds per mile slower than 10k pace is closer to recommended long run pace.

  • Ok, I hadn't quite realised that was how slow it was meant to be. So if my 10k pace is 7m/miles then I'd have to run at 8:30m/miles? How many miles is it a good idea to try and regularly do at HM pace during those long runs (not as part of a training schedule, just regular weekly running)?

  • None. If you want do do faster stuff put it in a shorter run during the week, especially if you are not training for anything. Long runs are already hard and you are only just starting to build them up.

  • Correct.  (of course!)

  • maybe 33% of your totally weekly mileage build up to that if its too much  right now.

  • literatin wrote (see)

    None. If you want do do faster stuff put it in a shorter run during the week, especially if you are not training for anything. Long runs are already hard and you are only just starting to build them up.

    They want to do a long run though.  Not everything is about speed here, some is about building up your mileage hence the OP's original question.

     

  • Lotus Flower wrote (see)
    literatin wrote (see)
    None. If you want do do faster stuff put it in a shorter run during the week, especially if you are not training for anything. Long runs are already hard and you are only just starting to build them up.

    They want to do a long run though.  Not everything is about speed here, some is about building up your mileage hence the OP's original question.

     

    Aren't you just agreeing?image

  • Cheers, that's really helpful.

    I tried out the runners world pace calculator, which I hadn't come across before, entered my 10k best and it did all the calculating for me. The long run pace is pretty much spot on what you guys have been saying.

  • Lotus Flower wrote (see)
    literatin wrote (see)
    None. If you want do do faster stuff put it in a shorter run during the week, especially if you are not training for anything. Long runs are already hard and you are only just starting to build them up.

    They want to do a long run though.  Not everything is about speed here, some is about building up your mileage hence the OP's original question.

     

    Yes, that is why in response to his subsequent question about whether it was a good idea to do speedwork within said long run, I suggested that perhaps it wasn't.

  • The long run is a 'Hard' run. You should be alternating hard and easy days. The ideal maximum length of the long run is 2h40m. After this it is believed you get no physiological benefits, only psychological ones. Ie feeling confident for the marathon.



    24hours later you shouldn't be doing another hard training session.



    Distance isn't the indicator of hard or easy. Tempo determines this.
  • Run for time instead of worrying about pace/distance. If you know the distance you have to run, you are more likely to race it in a faster time. Run for 1 to 2 hours+ and do not care too much about the distance/pace that needs to be covered. A rest day after the long run is usually the best for recovery. 2 to 4+ runs  leading up to the next week long run.

     

  • Surely the answer would also be effected by what your goals are?  For example if you are planning to run in 10k races then that would probably suggest shorter long runs with more emphasis on interval and tempo runs during the week.  If your goal was a half marathon race or races then there would be far greater focus on this long run with more suggestions of running some of it at HM pace.

    If you are running for fitness or maintenance then I guess you have far more flexibility where there isn't really a right or wrong answer?

    The general consensus seems to be that one can run for up to 2h40 mins at an easy pace without an extended recovery - that's interesting.  I find some conflicting points of view on this, not least from J Galloway who suggests a day of recovery for each mile of a long run before full performance is restored - even from an easy pace run.  Of course I may be reading things wrong as I am fairly new to running and it's taken me a year to become familiar with all the terms and acronyms, paces etc!

    The other thing that has really struck me in my own training is that there is no 'one size fits all'.  The area that has proven most useful to me is reading all of the available guidance and trying things out.  Getting to read your own body and feel how things are going only comes with time and seems better than following any single plan or information from somebody else.  But it definitely takes time to start to be able to do that.  I feel that many contributors on here are well experienced runners and maybe forget just how confusing it all is for us novices!

    The Runners World running books (available in many WH Smiths) have been really useful to me.  I have just picked up the one on nutrition which looks extremely good too.

  • As I read about training schedules more Im struck by how some prescribe a 5k(ish) race on Saturday then a long slow run on Sunday.

    Surely these are both 'hard' efforts so doing them back to back each week is asking for trouble isnt it?

  • Steve, the 2h40m is a general idea for Marathon based long runs. The distance would be a proportion of your weekly run. I think something like no more than 30%.

    So if you're running 60 miles then your long run can be 20miles and if you're a slow runner this might be limited to 15-16miles due to the time constraint.

    There's a good thread here about training for the right distance.

    Training for the Right Distance.


    For a 10k you're looking at about 8miles for the long run.

  • DMOE - I always thought the hard 5k followed by a long run Sunday was getting your legs used to running when tired/unrested.  Normally you see these runs in marathon training plans.

  • I think marathon is a different beast entirely. 5K is not going to be that hard. I'd comfortably do 1000m intervals on Friday night and then run an easy 10miles the next morning followed by 20miles on the Sunday. It's all about pace.



    There's a balance to be had.



    We're taking 10K so. The max distance is going to be 20-30 miles a week. Running half that distance in two days back to back seems a bit of an odd thing to be doing.
  • AnimalMagic- could be. I just find that if I run 5k, 10k all out i'm only good for active recovery (v easy jogging or swimming) at best the next day.  Sometimes not even that

  • That depends on whether you are racing the 5k or running it hard.



    What are you trying to achieve by racing? You only need to run it 'Hard' to get the benefits. Too hard and you're right, you'll just break something.
  • Back-to-back hard sessions can be done if thought out correctly.  You could do a hill repeat session on a Saturday and a long run on a Sunday, but only as long as your hill repeat session isn't a particularly long one, and your long run is relatively flat.

    It all dependes what you are training for and how long you take to recover.  The older we get, the longer it takes to recover.  A very gentle and short recovery run can help flush the system out after a particularly hard session, and I include a long run in this.  Whilst the long run doesn't push the heart rate particularly, it does deplete the energy stores quite a bit and work the bones and joints just as much if not more than a shorter, faster session.  I know this mantra is often repeated, but recovery is just as important as the training.  Pushing too hard before you have had chance to recover properly is just asking for trouble.

  • For  5k: long runs between 3 to 6 miles are sufficient.

    For 10k: long runs between 5 to 10 miles is sufficient.

    For HM: long runs between 8 to 15 miles are sufficient.

    For marathon: long runs 10 to 20+ miles are sufficient.

    Only advanced/elite marathoners and Ultra Marathon runners should run more than the entire marathon distance as a training run.

  • A long run of 6 miles for 5K? An effective 5k race will involve a 3 mile warm up and a mile cool down, a total of 7 miles. This could be tricky if you've never run more than 6 miles.

  • Bugger - just read TimR's comment that 2:40 is the maxium for a long run -  which perhaps explains why, after 8 4 hour runs over the past 16 weeks my legs are still not looking forwards to Sunday's Halstead Marathon.

  • I've heard various times stated as a maximum for a long run...  2:40 being the shortest and 3:30 being the longest...  Don't think I've ever seen any real evidence to suggest that either is correct though.

  • To be honest the schedule I followed gave me 8 times 20 miles plus to run and I just did the miles not thinking in terms of time.

  • The work around is to do long runs on consecutive days. Maybe a 15 then a 10.



    The marathon is a different beast though.



    With a 5K a decent warm up is vital. Especially as I find that even on an easy training run I'm not feeling good until well into my 3rd mile.
  • Run for time versus run for a specified distance? Marathon plans set 20 miles as a maximum long run but 18 miles or 22 mile runs may be a better maximum long run depending upon the level of fitness, experience and age of the runner. The one size fits all plan approach distance does not apply to all runners.

    Running for 1.5 to 2 hours without water or carbs in a fasted state may be similar to running a 2 to 3 hour training run fueled by water and carbs. The fasted long run may help use fat as fuel source more efficiently than running longer time fueled by carbs and fat.

Sign In or Register to comment.