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The furthest back I have started was in pen H and I finished in 11:39 that year...
Slow Duck - thanks for that more detailed perspective of the up-run start; has put my mind completely to rest, I will go for a very relaxed Cape Town marathon and am no longer concerned about start position. I am not planning a further "proper marathon" prior to the big day, although I have yet to look at a training plan in detail, suspect I will be covering the marathon distance plus a few times in training. The few things I have taken on board at this early stage is to "run sensible" and allow time for recovery - things I am not enormously good at! Good to know also that verification is not an international thing - thanks again.
Looking at 50-100 miles on 50 miles a week.
Depending on the ballot I will do london or pick somewhere else. It's a good way to get to 26 miles in company.
When entering Davos a couple if years ago I ran Paris within 80s of my PB but got injured 2 weeks after, this time I will have to be just more careful not to go too hard.
This is quite good with regards to finishing times and longest run before the comrades.
"In this episode of the Ask Coach Parry Podcast we answer a question from Charlie Hew:
I am worried regarding Comrades Marathon finish time. Is there a formula that can be used with some accuracy to predict finish time? Also, what do you feel should be the length of the longest run prior to the race? I use back to back long runs, as my long slow distance training so what should be the longest runs for both in this way of training?
Answer: To answer the question of finishing time, there isn’t a VERY accurate way of predicting finishing time. But for the down comrades, I’d say pretty much from around about a 3hour marathon up to a 4.43hour marathon, you very safe on a two and a half times your marathon time – that will give you a very nice indicator of what your finishing time should be. So just to make it easier, if you run a 4hour marathon, you’ve got a good chance of running a 10hour comrades.
Then, with regard to “What is the longest you should aim to run?” 50 – 55km for me is plenty for the bulk of the field, so that’s pretty much anyone who is running slower than 9hours, to be honest even most of you Bill Rowans. Perhaps some of your faster ‘silvers’ could look at a 60, but really for the majority of runners 50km – 55km is enough. In terms of your back to back training sessions, you want to aim to do 1,5hours – 2hours on your first day and 2,5hours – 3hours, 3.5hours even on your second day of your double header. And obviously you won’t do that every weekend, so you may do 1.5hour/2hour combination this weekend and the following weekend you would do a 2hour/2.5hour combination so that you have a couple of really big weeks and then a couple of weeks that aren’t too big so that you don’t have that consistent stress on your body."
http://talkfeed.co.za/ask-coach-parry-is-there-an-accurate-way-to-predict-my-comrades-finish-time/
I am shocked at those figures? I'm used to marathon programmes continually increasing the milage and long runs to within sight of the finish line - these ultra schedules "only" seem to get you to the half way mark on the longest run? How does that work out for you on the big day - does this training give you the capability to cover that second half in good consisten shape?
I'm wondering if I can honestly call myself a 4 hour marathoner? Run 16 or so...must do a proper count up...gone sub 4 on 3 occasions...I'll be dead pleased with a sub 12 finish at Comrades but already those predictors say 10 hours at best, realistically 11 plus pushing on that 12 hour cut off I think. This is a proper challenge - bring it on!
Lowrez - you sound a lot like me in terms of experience and speed. I qualified last year with just under 4 hours, and my objective was only to finish under 12. I was very disciplined with myself in the first half and didn't try to go for a faster time (and in the second half I didn't need to be disciplined because I wasn't going to be running any faster even if I wanted to...). Some of the madder predictors had me finishing in 10 hours or so, but that was never going to happen - too hot, too hilly - so I ignored them. In the end I finished in 11:23. My plan didn't actually take me beyond 31 miles, but in the end I pushed it out to 37, just for my own peace of mind, really.
Thanks RR - I'm looking at the Comrades website training schedules, they gear them up for pitching at the medals they award and they are all based on time, not distance. In marathon comparison there is one at 4:30 pace and then the next steps down to 3:30 pace - no 4 hour version. Are there any schedules out there based on distance for the 4 hour marathoner?
Lowrez - the programs on the website are very good. If you are a solid 4 hr marathoner, you can use the Bronze one. However, as a newbie, I'd suggest the Finisher. I'm a tad slower than Running Rodent in my marathon times - my qualifier was 4:00 exactly - and I finished in 11:29 at Comrades last year using the same approach as she did - very conservative to ensure a finish. We passed each other twice.
If you want the most renowned finisher program based on distance, get Don Oliver's book. That's essentially what I used. Longest run is 41 miles.
It's possible to finish Comrades on nothing more than marathons (my first few were done like that) but I found that if you can get the odd ultra into your training it seemed to be beneficial on race day.
With regard to predictors - I have found it useful to treat them as an indicator of my "potential"...
Just as a pointer - when the cut-off for Comrades used to be 11 hours, you had to qualify with a marathon of 4:30 or under...
I'm a big fan on Don Oliver's programme - if you can find his book "Make sure of your Comrades medal" it's worth picking up... Otherwise Nikki's Alsoran website puts up Don's schedule each month... Alsoranrunners.info which also is a great place to look around for first timers...
Thanks again all - spent a heap of time on the "also" site and looking at Don's schedules. Shocked that being a 4 hour marathoner doesn't bestow any equivalent finish estimate simply based on the distance - small matter of heat, elevation and mind coming into play I suspect! This thing looks tougher the more I find out; but it keeps drawing me in deeper; really want to run it.
Does anyone know where to get this book as a physical one? while I love my kindle some books make a lot more sense holding in hand.
I already have the relentless forward book, the plans in that will have to do otherwise.
Hello all - newbie to this forum and have just entered 2015 and sorted flights and hotels. I was scheduled to do this in 2014 but picked up a femoral neck stress fracture so had to cancel. Running Berlin in a few weeks as a qualifier (ran London this year in 2:54 so hope to be sub-3 again) and then plan to run a 50 mile (but flat) ultra in February as a staging post to build to Comrades. Never been further than marathon distance so both terrified and excited by the prospect!
baljc - that fracture sounds horrendous - I am amazed at your recovery and speed! Good luck in Berlin - I love the course - hairs on the back of the neck stuff going through then Brandenburg Gate.
Lars - better run after that book, only 1 left: http://www.alibris.co.uk/Make-Sure-of-Your-Comrades-Medal-Don-Oliver/book/16390372.
I looked at the kiln for the book, but at £36 i'll stick with the kindle version!
Yes MH, I saw some hens teeth cheaper, probably cost more when you add shipping from Africa and import duty to the UK (assuming one resides in the UK)...so what more does the book have over and above what's published for free on the alsoran web site - you can get the schedules there for zero mula? Is it worth the splash for the kindle version?
Personally I don't do well on back-2-back runs. I don't recover properly from the first one so the second one has the tendency to cause mild injuries that propagate to bigger injuries.
Basically my weekly formula that works for me from mid Feb to early May is:
1 MLR of 1.5-2 hours plus 1x hill session OR 2x MLR of 1.5-2 hours
1x LSR of 2.5 to 3.5 hours per week
2x other runs of around an 1 hour
total volume steadily increasing toward end April/beginning May. Enjoy a few marathons and one 'marathon plus' of 35-37miles
That gets me to 45-55mpw with 2 rest days - I always take a rest day before the LSR and ensure I am reasonable rested before the hill session as that put a lot of stress in the legs.
The last bit you just carry on because dnf and the bail bus is worse unless you're v v buggered.
Lowrez, can't vouch for the maths but the table at the bottom of the link estimates what your target training volume should be (in kms) between Jan and June to meet the required finish time in the top row..eg. a 4 hour marathon (says PB) could in theory deliver a 9h30m finish if you could amass 1550kms during that 5 month period. And with 1000kms you're looking at a potential 11h00m finish time.
http://calculator.coachnorrie.co.za/
It seemed to correlate with my 2014 experience. My fastest marathon in training for Comrades was 3:55 and despite best intentions I did have several small breaks in training (think I would have hit around 1000kms training in total from Dec to mid-May). I made it down to Durbs in a reasonably comfortable 10h30m. I like having tables like this because they affords me some flexibility and piece of mind especially if things don't quite go to plan.
I took note from reading all the recent research I've been digging into that many people run too fast in training. So I did 12 on Sunday much slower than I normally would - still trying to protect complaining hams from flaring up too much - didn't like it at all, felt like a real drudge, which I found I could not ultimately escape from after I'd persevered for 10 miles hoping things would start feeling easier. I suppose being completely fit might deliver a different feeling but I didn't seem to benefit from it in any way.
Conversely 8 on Wednesday at a pace where I was simply relaxed but not pushing it at all (but faster than above) breezed by and I felt I could actually up the speed if required.
I like the idea that once on a certain level of mileage through those LSRs etc I could stump up week about and cruise at that speed on marathon courses "for fun". Nice change from constantly trying to push the finish time down to that elusive 3:30.
So this "walking" thingy? Do lots of people emply this method? To the point of being rigorous about it on the day? Some banter implies you won't get through the day without an approach like this; say run 10 minutes, walk 1 minute. I've never "run" like that before. But it sounds like your training programme should be based on that if it's necessary to apply the technique to get through the big day. Some imply you won't get to the finish without doing this?
Don Oliver makes this comment: if you haven't walked in the first hour of Comrades, you've made a grave mistake. I think for anyone slower than a silver medal, this is probably true. And it's not easy to walk in that first hour as you simply feel to good. Of course, in 2015 it might be easier, as Berea's hill is right there at the start.
Sounds like Don's approach is based on "walking as needed"? Rather than "run 10-walk 1"? I think that would imply you don't necessarily need to employ a "clockwork" run/walk strategy - my fear has increased after looking up Berea and finding "the last of the five murderous hills in the down-run" - I will definitely be walking up it and the rest I think!
People shouldn't worry about the walking thing. You may well need to walk several times an hour ****so you can get the food and drink down you properly at the aid stations**** and that *is* important. Beyond that, it is all about the most efficient and least uncomfortable way for *you* to cover 55 miles. I personally discovered (I recall the very moment, halfway up a hill at Halstead 2012) that for me it felt better to run slowly uphill rather than power walk it, so basically I ran most of Comrades 2012, save aid stations, and one steepish bit of a few hundred metres which were done walk 20 run 20.
2014 I walked a lot more but that wasn't strategy, that was lardy and unfit!
Don't worry about it, but when you do your one or two ultra distance runs, just think what feels best and easiest for you.
And remember that Comrades is up and down all the way, so time based w/r schedules don't work that well. Incline based strategies such as run the downhills and flats and try and take the food'n'drink walk breaks on uphills, however, they can work a bit. In the end it's a long way so sh:t happens whatever you do and we all have to be ready for that (!).
Power to your (old and gone) lard F2D! I love this forum; that was a LOL moment for me (still giggling). Thanks for the wider view on non-running. It makes a whole heap of sense. I am seeing a common approach in everything being said;"do what you have to do to get through it" - I should resolve to make a start on my lard - I just love those chips though.
Do people generally carry any of their own supplies - I'm thinking of bum bag type belt or such? Or do the support stops have adequate and a good range of supplies to meet "all needs". Of course I am used to having a shorts pocket stuffed full of sweets for a 26 miler and supplementing that with on-course water etc.
I have only run with a belt bag once; it was mandatory on a 13 mile fell run. Started out with it far too loose and had to synch it really tight around my waist to stop it flapping about - although after a very short while you could not tell it was there - had amazing grazes round my belly afterwards though.
Brings back further memories - that fell race had over 900m of elevation in it; the majority of it in the first half, almost continuous, some of it so steep I could not run it - proper fell runers bounded up it like gazelles though. I suppose when I say I "ran" I mean "struggled" - but it was with a running motion - Comrades has a similar total elevation difference - sea level to highest point - but I can see a whole heap of rollercoaster in addition; is there a figure anywhere for the total amount of climbing actually done - totalling all the hills?
All stations have fruit of some kind, then as Becca7 says, some have other things too - including potato chips, potatoes, sweets etc. Spectators will have an endless array of foods that you can have too.
It is unusual to see a runner carrying their own supplies as there is so much available except for gels