Cameron recent activity

Big_G

Country Jim wrote (see)

As a teacher, I'd like to make the point that the recent industrial action is about far more than pensions.

I was striking because I care about the future of the teaching profession, and I believe that it's important that your children are taught by someone qualified, who works under conditions which allow them to actually educate your kids and equip them for adult life.

It breaks my heart to see people swallowing the "selfish, lazy teachers" lie hook, line and sinker.

My wife (a teacher) gets annoyed about this as well.  The press are making it all about pay and pensions, when it isn't.

You'd have thought someone as vocal as Nayan would see what the powers that be are trying to do, by creating a "them and us" scenario (i.e., "teachers against the rest of us").

Dave The Iron Ex- Spartan

NetanyahuTheWarCriminal wrote (see)

Well today's parents can not do without teachers. Someone has to teach there kids right from wrong, how to open bananas, tie shoe laces, why racism is not acceptable and all manor of other things that kids arrive at secondary school without the ability to do or understand.

So you are saying Primary School teachers are crap, but secondary school teachers are saints ?

Nayan

Big_G wrote (see)

Country Jim wrote (see)

As a teacher, I'd like to make the point that the recent industrial action is about far more than pensions.

I was striking because I care about the future of the teaching profession, and I believe that it's important that your children are taught by someone qualified, who works under conditions which allow them to actually educate your kids and equip them for adult life.

It breaks my heart to see people swallowing the "selfish, lazy teachers" lie hook, line and sinker.

My wife (a teacher) gets annoyed about this as well.  The press are making it all about pay and pensions, when it isn't.

You'd have thought someone as vocal as Nayan would see what the powers that be are trying to do, by creating a "them and us" scenario (i.e., "teachers against the rest of us").

 

 

I dont think its that polarised. I do however know plenty of teachers baying for Gove's blood, rejoicing at his 'demise' and expecting folks to pat them on the back and support their strike

They are, frankly, taken aback when they get a lukewarm or worse response along the lines of 'hold on, this is hitting me in the pocket, do you not realise others have it tougher than you?'

I dont think teachers are all lazy and selfish. I just think they need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Big_G

In my experience, the vast majority of teachers are in it for the right reasons.  Those that aren't do get weeded out in some cases (probably not enough though).  Unfortunately, there are teachers that are very good who are leaving the profession and not because of pay and pensions.

Big_G

Nick, I agree with your point.  I suspect there was a "whoop!" in most staff rooms around the country at the news of Gove's departure, probably followed by a "Hmmm, I wonder what this new person is actually going to do differently?".

Dave The Iron Ex- Spartan

Big_G wrote (see)

  I suspect there was a "whoop!" in most staff rooms around the country at the news of Gove's departure,?".

I happened to be in the car the other lunch time when Jeremy Vine (I know Radio 2 I'm so old and square) and he was asking about the different reactions

Firmly in 2 camps

a) Woop Gove is gone, Bog standard secondary schools

b) Shame Gove is gone, Free schools and colleges

 

 

Nayan

both a and b miss the point.

Dave The Iron Ex- Spartan

I only made a statement listening to several teachers.

You do of course always get the.. Only the passionate about anything take the trouble to phone in / write in / vote

Dave The Iron Ex- Spartan

NetanyahuTheWarCriminal wrote (see)

. Teachers, nurses, firemen and most low paid public servants are getting shafted

 

They can always come an get a job in the real world ! (Said very much tongue in cheek)

Big_G

Going totally off topic, but I have often pondered about the "real world" comments levelled at teachers etc, with regards to people employed in those types of jobs (Dave, this isn't aimed at you as I saw your tongue in cheek comment).

For example, could it be argued that working in a primary school is very much "real world"?  I.E., teachers having to deal with all the shit they have to put up with from "real world" people, as well doing the actual teaching bit of their jobs?  Some of the stuff that happens in many schools wouldn't be tolerated in the private sector.

Dave The Iron Ex- Spartan

Don't know the answer Big_G, and it is a topic that gets knocked around in our house as :-

Daughter is a paramedic and her husband a head teacher, so Sunday lunch can be lively.

The rest of us all work in the real world... 2 step sons in Banking and youngest still at Uni (so perhaps not)

Screamapillar

I agree with you actually - some bankers live in a world as far removed from the "real" one as it's possible to get.

Big_G

I think Dave was being ironic, in saying that he thinks teaching/paramedics are in the proper "real world" (even though people like Nayan think they've got it easy, and say they need to get into the real world, or smell the coffee or whatever).  Obviously, Dave can correct me if I'm wrong

Nayan

I find the conspiracy theory about a media campaign to present teachers as motivated by their pensions quite laughable. Even the Mirror and Guardian (whom you'd expect to be more sympathetic than say the Torygraph) present this as 'Teachers up in arms about pay and pensions.'

The NUT also use this angle to stoke up members' fury with an online calculator to show you how much your teaching pension is changing:

http://www.teachers.org.uk/node/12872

Nothing wrong with that, but the idea that this isnt a key driver in mobilising teachers is basically bollocks. 

To be fair, if my other half were a teacher and she were offered a chance to buy extra years' service in her final salary pension, I'd put spare cash towards that. Its state backed (so much less likely to blow up than say equitable life) and available at incredibly generous terms compared to what I have to budget for my regular money purchase private sector pension. And thats after the reforms.

Big_G

I am in the private sector and have a much better pension than my teacher wife.

Nayan

Lucky you. Plenty dont

Big_G

Correct, and plenty of people don't get kicked, punched, screamed at or have chairs thrown at them was part of their day job.   However, plenty of teachers (and others like paramedics, police, fire fighters etc) do.

We obviously disagree, and that's fine.

Nayan

Now that, in itself is worth a proper debate and posssibly industrial action. However  its not not edging ahead of the pensions moan up that isnt a media conspiracy - its crap PR.

Dave The Iron Ex- Spartan

You want try being a project manager, and the childish behaviour you get !

Big_G

In my experience, teachers know they're well paid and have good pensions.  My wife would never strike over pay and pensions, and neither would many other teachers.  

I have often asked my wife if she thinks the Unions are barking up the wrong tree with regards striking over pay and she thinks they are.  I'll say again - I firmly believe that most teachers would not strike over pay, in my humble opinion.  However, that is what the media are focussing on.

Nayan

If they want to stress that they are really up in arms about poor working conditions and genuinely care about children they need much better PR, you now Max cliffo..

Oh no wait.

Big_G

Dave The Iron Ex- Spartan wrote (see)

You want try being a project manager, and the childish behaviour you get !

Having said that, the head at my wife's school loves his Project Manager RAG reports and tracking the progress of the kids in minute detail on spreadsheets, based on fundamentally flawed and made up numbers.  No different to the private sector then  Anyway...

Dave The Iron Ex- Spartan

Nothing flawed or made up about my spreadsheet !

skotty

Big_G wrote (see)

Having said that, the head at my wife's school loves his Project Manager RAG reports

I wouldn't have thought they were allowed to track who is on the blob.

Cake

Sorry if this is slightly off topic but a few pages back was said about labour/Tories ect  all the same just different front men. Just in case to declare before writting I'm a ex-labour memember resigned over tuition fee's into last century. God I'm old!

They arn't all the same even now in the post new-labour world. Just they all chose to use the same type of langage and talk in sound bite's, so if you don't look in the detail doesn't look any different. Personal view is this is part of why ukip have done so well lately as there leader tends to talk like a human being instead of constently trying to remember which words sounds proactive and other such b*llock's.

Rough guide

• Labour = Big govenment large safety net for low incomes
• Lib Dem's = Slightly smaller govenment but still safety net, just spend more on middle england and less on inner cities.
• Tory = If you want to do well get off your arse and do it yourself, help you in crisis but other than that small govenment and big society if you struggle.
• UKIP = no EU scrap all regulations to do with business look after yourself and don't expect the tax payer to pay for anything other than doubling the army for reason's that I can't quite understand?
• Green = EU good but only when conveniant and doesn't get in the way of are agenda. We will never get into power so we can say whatever we want about policies without being realistic about if it will work. (Which was what UKIP was doing 4 years ago.)