Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Starting again from scratch
Hi,
Brief background - took up running last May and by the end of 2013 had worked my way up to a weekly mileage of about 30 miles, including a long run of 10 miles, with a 10k PB of 45.31 and a 5k PB of 21.03.
Then in January I started experiencing knee pain (outside of right knee just at the top of the fibula). Hobbled through this for a short time before having a complete break until April. Then gradually built my way back up being able to run about 10 miles a week (all slowly) without any knee pain, only to then suffer with quite bad heel/PF pain for a week at the beginning of July. Have since rested, but am going to start (another) comeback tonight.
Have concluded that possibly was running too fast in most of my training runs (always at the very fastest end of what the calculators told me was 'easy' pace and didn't do long runs any slower than this either) which probably contributed to two essentially overuse injuries. So am determined to run very slowly and build things up gradually over the rest of this year in order to form a solid base for next year.
Will also be incorporating all the other good things which I essentially neglected last year (CT, stretching, strengthening exercises focussed on ITB/hip/glutes and claves mostly and general flexibility work).
I am mostly writing this just to motivate myself and will update it periodically, but if anyone had any comments or advice, or finds themselves in a similar boat, then please join in!
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Good that you started working on the whole kinetic chain, esp glutes. Had a few minor issues a bit like yours and it seems many runners have weak / inactive glutes at the root of it.
Day one - 3km at an average pace of 7.34/km. Felt fine through the first 2k but had some pain in the knee during the third, so perhaps a case of too far too soon (even if it was at very slow, slower than ever, pace!)
Planning some cross-training in the gym tonight and have a night off tomorrow as going to the theatre, so no more running til Thursday, which may not be a bad thing.
Good luck mate. As someone who has had numerous overuse injuries, mainly by going too fast and not accepting that at 49 I can't run like I did when I was in my twenties. I would offer the following advice which appears to be working for me when coming back from injury:
Don't run on consecutive days for the first couple of weeks (cross training is fine).
Do run/walk/run e.g. 5/1/5 especially on the lsr for the first couple of weeks.
Slow down.
Thanks Biffa - sound advice! Have done another couple of 2k runs this week at about the 7min/km mark. Slowly, slowly ......
Last night - same session as last Monday, 3k (7.34, 7.37, 7.24) and this time, no pain. So I'll take that as a positive.
Did 9k last, got 11k in the schedule for this week, so as you can see I won't be tearing up any trees over the next few months. between now and the new year I am effectively pre-base building! Just trying to run consistently without any pain is my ambition.
That said, is 12 minute miling taking it too much to the other extreme? Without a race time since December (21 min parkrun) it is difficult to put info into a training pace calculator! Oh well, would rather be too cautious than too ambitious, given recent injuries!
Hi AndrewD, as you said on my thread, we've got pretty similar histories so far.
My advice for what it's worth (not a lot!) stretching a lot is the key. Also don't come back too soon, I spent 3months desperately wanting to get back to it, including weekly physio etc... at the end of the day, it was only really time that made the pain go away and stretching that has (so far) stopped it from coming back.
Admittedly I've never been quite as fast as your best (23:30 parkrun) and have never slowed to quite 12min/mile (around 11min/mile is the slowest I've gone) but to me, the slower the better until you have complete confidence your issues have cleared up completely and even then only increase gradually. That said, I'm not sure I've followed my own advice particularly well!
Good luck in your comeback, I'll be checking in regularly to see how it's going.
Yep, stretching and strengthening work is going to be key I think.
Probably won't stay at 12min/mile for too long - just until I feel confident that I am not going to break down again!
Hi,
I've had similar experiences, although 12min/mile pace is a tempo run for me
I injured my knee back in Feb 13 (skiing though, not running). Had to wait 6 months for surgery, so unable to walk normally for 8-9 months. I literally had to learn to walk before I could run.
Once I could run I got into it again, pushed too fast too soon, and injured my achilles. That meant another 2-3 months of little running.
I'm back running now, but with a stiff toe, which I think might have resulted from the achilles exercises.
The trick this time was to take it really slow. I followed a couch to 5k type plan and even when my aerobic system could have easily done more I stuck to it to allow my legs to slowly adapt. I don't think going on the slow side of caution will be a bad thing.
I also did LOTS of strength work and stretching. I still do a few sessions of each in a week.
I'd advise visiting a sports therapist of physio so they can check for muscle imbalances and weaknesses, and give you exercises to deal with them.
Are your shoes still right for you if your gait has changed? Might be worth checking those too.
Good luck
Thanks Jane - I am going for gait analysis and new running shoes next week. Seeing a physio is certainly a good idea too!
Another slow 2.5k last night on the tready, followed by some bike work and some strengthening exercise, working on the quads.
Sounds good. Make sure you look at your hamstrings too. I focused too much on my quads, and after walking with a straight leg for so long, my hamstrings completely stopped firing. I worked from curls (lying then standing) to bridges to one-legged bridges.
Week 2 done - 11km and a cricket match lol
plan is for 14k this week, with the long run at 4k.
onwards and upwards ........
You're on your way...a few more weeks and you'll be dreaming of 4k long runs!
How this week going Andrew
Hi Katt - thanks for popping in.
4k done last night. Took me exactly 30mins, at splits fairly close to 7.30 each km. also, the first time I've run for 30 mins continuously since before injury probs in January. Rest day today (possibly some light stretching and foam rollering tonight).
Well done, I'm really impressed by your restraint in keeping it short and slow.
It is of course exactly the right thing to be doing and the only way to build up without ending up back where you started. I struggle with the temptation to 'test out' recovering injuries which is pretty obviously just another way of saying 'aggravate' recovering injuries!
Stick with it...
It is actually requiring less willpower to stay at a slow pace than I expected. I am also trying to change my running form to be more of a midfoot striker rather than a heel striker and also to increase my cadence a bit, all to take the pressure off my knees a little. So with so much to think about it actually seems to take my mind off the fact that I am running so slowly! (Does feel like I'm running on the spot at times though lol)
I have some short-term and long-term goals, but the first of these is to stick at the current paces (7.30/km for 'long' runs and 7/km for the rest of my running - all easy, no speedwork) until end of October, by when I hope to have my long run up to 9 or 10k and my weekly distance to 32km (20 miles). In that time I will do 2 or 3 parkruns to track my progress. Hoping to get the parkrun time down to about 25 mins by the end of this block of training.
If I manage this, then I will reassess and probably revise my training paces and targets for the next 3 month block.
This all depends on staying injury free though .......
Rest day today, the 3k tomorrow on the treadmill followed by some bike work and some calf/achilles strengthening exercises.
Week 2 update - done 10.5k so far, 3.5 more planned tomorrow. Had some tightness in my right calf this week which necessitated a slight jig around of my training nights, but still got the planned runs in. Think the forefoot striking is harder on the calves so has caused them to kick up a bit of a fuss. Icing after runs seems to help though.
i have a similar story. Started running 3 years ago and was up to around 30-35 miles a week. 21:00 5k, 45:01 10k. Around 2 years ago I developed ITBS problems and kind of just drifted through the last 2 years doing roughly 20 miles a week on and off. Sometimes I'd not run for a month at a time and admittedly I got lazy.
I got my act together about a month ago and have been running every other day for the last 3 weeks. I'm up to 55 minutes each run, with the intention of going to 4 days a week in around a fortnight. Once I've got a couple of months of 30+ mile weeks on my legs I'll be going back to train with my club. So far my IT band is behaving itself, so fingers crossed !
Interesting trip for some gait analysis yesterday - revealed a very dodgy way of landing on my right foot which causes quite a lot of instability and which no doubt will have contributed to my injury woes. Result is a new pair of GT-1000's which should provide some more support and certainly seemed to result in more stability on the treadmill there yesterday.
Thomas - good luck with cranking the mileage up again. Don't be tempted to do too much too soon though. Do you foam roll the ITB at all?
Just completed 5k for the first time since January! Woohoo lol!!
Nice one.
I haven't had a peep out of my ITB in months so I actually have no idea how much of a problem it is, but I like it that way. I just got a foam roller last week. I've used it twice.
At the moment I'm just thinking about time on feet and not distance. Working up to an hour's run every other day.
Can't find my Garmin but I did roughly 5.5 miles tonight.
Well done AndrewD. Keep it going.
Interesting to see you mentioned foam roller... a friend suggested it to me when I first had ITB issues. When I then went to the physio, he reckoned that potentially foam roller is great but only if you use it right. Given my lack of coordination/flexibility/core strength etc etc he therefore suggested that I would be better off with just 'normal' exercises and stretches.
I guess the point of that is make sure you're using it right
Yep I'm careful with it and don't use it more than a couple of times a week anyway to be honest.
Decided to do my first park run after injury in 4 weeks time. injury permitting of course .......
Week 3 finished -16k in the week, one long run of 5k at 7.30min/km pace and the rest all 2 or 3k runs at 7min/km.
slight foot pain in the last km of the last two runs - starts just below the outside of the ankle then works it's way down the underside of the foot along the outside metatarsal area. so going to have a couple of days rest, had a cutback week of 12k planned anyway.
Sounds sensible, no point pushing too hard at this stage
Well done Andrew. Do you do anything else as well such as swimming and cycling? Could help to boost the fitness without risk of impact related injury etc.
WJH - yes, I try to get a couple of cycling sessions in each week. One tends to be a bit longer and at a higher intensity (on a day when I don't run at all) and the other is a shorter lighter session to complement one of the shorter run days. Also try to do various strengthening exercises a couple of days a week (although I should probably be focussing on this more).
So as an example, a standard week should be Mon - LR, Tues - short run & cycling, Weds - short run & strengthening, Thurs - short run, Fri - cycling, Sat - rest, Sun - short run & strengthening.
I get free use of the swimming pool in my gym membership too, so might have to try and build in the odd swim instead of cycling, for a bit of variety.
I have pinpointed the 'epicentre' of the foot pain to be directly below the ankle bone, on the outside of the heel. May be linked to my tight peroneus longus which runs down the side of the calf and is bloody impossible to properly stretch (and painful to foam roller)!
Weekly update: RANT ALERT!
Well, what a frustrating and demoralising week that has turned out to be. Was supposed to be 12k all run slowly with long run at 4k - a cutback week (cutback from what you may say
)
Well, I got 3k into my 4k long run on Thursday and the foot pain re-emerged. Not too bad, but enough to feel it. I then struggled through the first km or so on Saturday morning and just had to stop - too much pain, much more than a niggle.
Feels like a cramping on the sole of the foot directly underneath where the peroneus brevis and longus meets the fifth metatarsal. The pain starts there and then spreads down the metatarsal and into the heel a bit too. Also, so slight tightness around the outside of the ankle (which is where the peroneus longus and brevis both go into the foot).
So I am back to square one again, or so it feels. if it is not one injury it is another and even slow, short running is not seeming to be possible without some other form of injury arising.
I am at a loss as to what to do now - I suppose I will have to go back to a physio (although they were pretty useless last time I went when they said they couldn't really work out what the problem was!) and spend more money.
So frustrating .....
How strange, 2.5k on the treadmill last night and not a peep out of the injury..........?!
So after a further 5k long run on Tuesday and 3k last night on the treadmill, I had a physio appointment at lunchtime today. Apparently I have flat feet, very tight calves and hyper-mobility which means less stability and support in the ankle and foot joints and ligaments, resulting in pain! So had some treatments and have now been given a shopping list of exercise for my homework.