MARCO HR/Pace Calculator

https://feelrace.com/fr.pl?th=_Marco

I've just stumbled upon this.  Has anyone used it?  How did it compared to your previous races?  

Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • ToroToro ✭✭✭

    If anyone talks about running on here...

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Never seen it before but looked interesting.

    I don't use HR in races though. Just try and stick to my split times and hold on for dear life at the end.
  • Yes, I always use it now. It helps me run flat or slightly negative splits. That way I get my best marathon times. It also lets me iron out course effects such as the late hills in Boston. It doesn't necessarily predict my finish time perfectly, but it guides me over a rising HR for the whole event, which, with practice, is still giving me PRs. I swear by it and wouldn't do anything else now.

  • That is absolutely superb.



    I think I'll try this on my next marathon. The HR and paces pretty much match what I know I run at so it's just a case of slowing right down for the first half and then pushing it at the end. Assuming I've got anything left at the end!



    Thanks.
  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    I like the theory but this has me running the second half of a marathon at a higher average HR than I can manage for a stand-alone HM, likewise a higher HR for the last 6 miles than for a stand-alone 10k, i.e. something I'd find virtually impossible to maintain.  I suppose you could adapt it given your known HR data, but generally it seems a bit overly prescriptive IMO.

  • The second half would be at a higher heart rate but a slower pace. The first 3miles is at my maximum LSR HR but a lot quicker than my current LSR pace. I think it's basing your paces on your half marathon time but your HR on your max HR.



    The idea is sound. Just needs tweaking for individuals. I don't think I can run at the HR and pace is suggests. So for me maybe I need to look at where I need to focus my training.
  • I have used it successfully to pace my PBs but I tend to use it to specify the right paces, then go out and find what HR I do pace X at and fiddle my HR input to the calculator until it matchesimage
  • It's trying to take that into consideration.



    For me it's suggesting running that last 6miles at HM effort but about 45seconds slower than my HM pace.



    At the start it's suggesting I run about 30secs quicker than my LSR but at 4BPM slower. It's round the right ball park though.
  • I've been using this method for a few years. I absolutely agree it's better to run after the HR and see where it comes out. The only downside is that one is not sure exactly how fit one is (but one could get that from training splits) so it's hard to estimate finish time.

    If you look at my Copenhagen marathon 2014 you can see that it roughly falls into the prescribed MARCO thirds, but that it was hard to hit the goal for the last third, as Phil says. This upside of this is that the first half to two thirds is not difficult image  Even though I was not fully up to target for the last 10 km, I ran over a 6 min pb in this race compared with the previous autumn. Coincidentally, Copenhagen 2014 was the same time as I ran in Boston 2014 using Marco, to the second!

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    I think the pace predictor is pretty bang on. I'll be happy with running the predicted pace from my HM pb at Berlin in just over four weeks anyway, although I'll probably stick with what I know and attempt to run even splits.  image

  • OK but IIRC it is set up just for marathons so you have a smaller offset in % for halves ie nearer flat.

  • I don't see how it would work for a half. I do a 20minute warm up and then run at about 87% of max all the way. Whereas on a marathon in start to see a marked climb in HR after about two hours.
  • The question is: if you run a half at flat heart rate, does you pace stay flat, with an equal or slightly negative split? For me there is a slight fade, which I offset with say a couple of % either side of 88 % in thirds, IIRC. I don't often run a half, but here's my half pb from 2011 with a trending up, mini-marco HR. I could have been too generous here, since I seemed to have quite a bit left for the last 3 km image

    Edit: here's a better one from last year where I aimed at 87, 89 and 91% for a trail half.

  • Yes. A bit of both. I just use the HR as a bit of a warning really. The difference isn't that marked though. Maybe an extra 10-15secs a mile in the last 3miles and 4-5BPM.
  • Have you got a proper max? Maybe you're using HRR?
  • Some interesting discussion going on here image I saw the Marco calculator last year but decided a negative split was for more 'seasoned' runners and this as to be my first marathon.

    A year later and am still interested but 2 things will stop me for my next #marathon.

    1. I know I can't run 9 miles with an AHR of 88-89% - without running 17 miles before that section starts.

    2. I'm running Loch Ness with a negative incline but most of the downhill is in the first 8 miles and most of the uphill in the last 8.

    That said, I have a few weeks to play with the given paces and HR's so might come up with a bastardised version image

  • It's all about lactate threshold though. Try some threshold runs. You'll be surprised at how long you can keep going at 87%. 92% is another 5% or 10bpm. That's a lot when you think about it. Just walking along the road you're probably already over 50%max.
  • I've done very little subLT work so whilst I should be fine running around 77-80% of MAX (188bpm) anything over would stop me running pretty quickly this time around.

    That said I have played around with the calculator and am liking it more and more - sort of like progressive LSR's? Am going to try it for my next LSR but using last years marathon time and 60 secs/mile slower than this years goal pace. 

  • I've used it in three of my four marathons. The key though seems to be predicting a realistic target - I finished my second fastest marathon comfortably using Marco with a five minute negative split. I then tried to go for a faster time with the same method and I just couldn't speed up enough in the second half so finished with a small positive split. It was still a PB but not quite what I was hoping for. This was at Chester where there is a bit of a hill in the second half. I am a big fan though, it gives you the confidence to hold back first half with a real plan and seems to make the experience much more pleasant!

  • I ran Rotterdam marathon last year following the Marco pacing strategy and it helped me to a sub 3 with a negative split -

    Net split times (difference)

    5 K 21:13 (21:13)

    10 K 42:17 (21:04)

    15 K 1:03:18 (21:01)

    20 K 1:24:23 (21:05)

    Half marathon 1:29:02

    25 K 1:45:34 (21:11)

    30 K 2:06:36 (21:02)

    35 K 2:27:25 (20:49)

    40 K 2:48:27 (21:02)

    Finishing in 2.57:25
  • This is very interesting and seems to give a real goal to aim for, though it seems a little optimistic.

    From my half time it is giving a plan for a 3:19 marathon

    from my 10k time it is giving  a plan for a 3:17 marathon

    Either of which I would be extremely happy with, I think realistically I am looking at 3:30 but I will definitely compare my actual results for my first marathon with what it is suggesting and see how it pans out.

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    From my 10k PB it's 1bpm and 18 seconds out for the marathon. image 169bpm ~ 170bpm and 2.34.20~ 2.34.38.
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