Races that don't have a UKA licence

A lot of the races that I do locally don't have a UKA licence. It is a bit of a pain because most of my pb's never count towards my runbritain ranking. I don't know how much it costs for a licence, but is this a short sighted approach by race organisers? I imagine that a lot of runners now avoid such races. Is it a false economy and does having a licence attract more entries? How many on here avoid non-licensed races?

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Comments

  • Couldn't care less if a race doesn't have a UKA license, so long as it's well organised.

    Many of my race results don't appear on Run Britain, that just makes me less inclined to use Run Britain.

  • I've never checked a race to see - it doesn't matter to me.
  • I would imagine race organisers don't bother with getting a UKA licence cos it saves them from one hell of a lot of red tape and paperwork. Many events these days are licenced through ARC instead. Doesn't bother me either way -  but then, I only 'race' for my own satisfaction.

    If you need your results to count on runbritain, be more selective about which events you enterimage

  • Never ran a race because it has a UKA licence or avoided one because it doesnt. Its just not a factor for me.

  • got to admit... i wouldn't care.......as long as they have the correct insurance 

  • As long as the course is accurate and they publish results then that's the main factors for me.
  • In my opinion, the key factor with UKA and ARC licensed races is that they are accurately measured.

  • I would probably see the UKA licence as evidence that the race directors had probably bothered to do all the 'red tape' things that are important, like making sure the course is accurately measured and safe. It's not that expensive and also means the organisers (and runners) are insured in case of accidents. And I do like my PBs to appear on Power of 10. So while the lack of a licence wouldn't put me off altogether for a fun run, I wouldn't pick an unlicensed race as my main goal for the season and spend months training for it.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    No, they're not being cheapskates.  Some clubs have "issues" with UKA.  My club has a 10K this weekend which is ARC and not UKA.  In fact, my club has advised people not to renew their UKA license this year (and most people have not, including me) and is actively trying to get non-UKA races into its club championship.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    I posted the below on a thread recently where Millsy was asking about the reasoning behind this attitude of my club....

    The main reason is that there are people who are club members but choose not to pay the annual EA fee (maybe because they don't know what EA do with the money to help support long distance running, and so don't want to pay it).  These people are willing to pay the £2 extra for races and register for that race as being a member of the club, but they risk not appearing as a club member in the results.  So the individual considers themselves a club member, the club considers them a member of the club, but EA do not.  At best, they've been registered as a non-scoring club member, and so not being able to count as a team.

    The club have been trying to get the rule changed arguing that the £2 extra is a temporary race license and so the person should be shown in the results as a club member, but the club hasn't had any joy with that.

    There are other reasons (political, mainly) around EA seemingly not wanting to acknowledge ARC, which had more than 300 clubs in 2013.

     

  • There are plenty of badly organised and badly measured races with a UKA licence (or perhaps well-measured but badly set out on the day).  ARC is as good a guarantee of those kind of things as UKA.  Races with no licence at all, well I think the phrase is 'let the buyer beware'.

    As for Po10, a few of my PBs are too old to be in there so it's an incomplete record for me anyway. I'm not too fussed just how incomplete it is so wouldn't ever worry about upcoming races being UKA or not.  As for runbritain rankings, they're just artificial numbers based on a selected group of races and have about as much meaning as strava course records.  Did I ever mention I was briefly the London Marathon course record holder, according to strava?

  • power of 10 has dropped my earlier runs and PBs and only picked up the ones since i registered with Parkrun....

     

    Power of 10 also seems to think Seren is my real name....and not just my forum name  image

  • Separate from any of the political elements that Big_G mentions, having now been more closely involved in the organisation of our club race I'm a little more clued up than I was.  (But ask our main coach for the gory details as he has better informed and stronger views!)

    From what I understand, besides the amount of red tape involved in UKA, the ARC permit is more attractive from an insurance point of view because the committee members of the club themselves are covered more fully.  (As I say, I don't know the gory details but willing to take my esteemed colleague's word for it.)  

    However, another aspect I don't fully understand is that UKA licensing has changed fairly recently in as far as distinguishing between clubs and other event organisers, so that it's easier (and cheaper?) for affiliated clubs to get a licence.  We looked into this for our race next year, as it's been chosen for the British Masters' 10 Mile Championship race, and they insist on a UKA permit.  So it's now covered by UKA and ARC.

    From a personal point of view, the only plus point of taking part in a UKA event is that the result appears on Po10/RunBritain, not that I'm vain but it is the most comprehensive single database of results and it's nice to have them in the same place.  But otherwise, if it's a licensed event and on a certified course (something completely separate from UKA licence) then I'm happy.

  • Reading this thread I am getting the impression that those for whom Po10/RunBritain are the be-all-and-end-all are the minority. These rankings certainly don't feature on my radar when I pick races to do. Echoing Tom77 and Millsy above, it's more important to me that the race is well organised and that I get a result for that race itself (bit wary of "fun runs" that don't publish results, or sometimes just not very meaningful results). I keep track of my own results (times, positions, etc), and just don't feel the need to have a website compare my performance to other people's. Until there is one HUGE database of every race that every runner in every corner of the country has done, surely these sites are not real representations of comparison, given that (for example) someone might have bettered your time in race that, despite being accurately measured and meeting all the criteria, etc, isn't listed on one of these sites. What does that mean to you for your time?!. What do people get out of them, except a niche version of seeing your name in lights?! I don't mean to belittle these sites but I just don't know what the great appeal is.

  • Wow, didn't realise that there was politics involved. Similar to previous posters I think that it is important to have an accurately measured course. There have been times where I completed a race only to find out that the distance was wrong. Usually caused by errors in setting out the course on the day, annoying but these things happen.The main benefit for me of sites like runbritain is that they show results in age group categories and I can compare myself to a similar peer group. race results that are shown as 40+ don't cut the mustard for me, especially when you are at the top end, in age, of a 10 year age span.

  • Kenbro wrote (see)

    A lot of the races that I do locally don't have a UKA licence. It is a bit of a pain because most of my pb's never count towards my runbritain ranking. I don't know how much it costs for a licence, but is this a short sighted approach by race organisers? I imagine that a lot of runners now avoid such races. Is it a false economy and does having a licence attract more entries? How many on here avoid non-licensed races?

    When I want to enter a race, I first of all check it is Licensed and that is the absolute truth.  If I do a PB at a race, I WANT it to go onto my Power of 10 or Runbritain stats, I don't care what anybody else does, that is my preference and I want those results on my own stats profile - I am not the only one that goes this route either, by any means.

    Secondly, a Licensed event, in order to get its License MUST be accurately measured, the full advertised distance..... NOT, as recently happened at one, (which shall remain nameless for this thread) event, which had me in tears of joy due to a massive PB, only to find it was 300m short of the actual advertised distance a few days later image.

    I swore after that little incident that any event I entered would have that License, if only because of the course measurements and so in turn, getting that result on my PO10 and RB rankings.

    Kenbro brings up a good point re age group rankings too and I want my results to be in the correct bracket and when some of the younger runners who may say "so what about age rankings, what does it matter" - just wait until you get older, because if you are still running by then, you may change your tune lol.

    For some of us, our PBs, our stats, our age groups, our percentiles for our ages etc, all goes towards our enjoyment of our running, it is the whole package.

    On a final note, membership to UKEA means we get £2 off race entries - within five races, we have our money back, anything after that we are in profit.  There are also other perks such as discounts at Sweatshop etc.  To me it is definitely worth it.

    Any unlicensed events, I now steer well clear of.

  • I'm happy to do races that aren't UKA registered but I have noticed that there are more UKA events now - probably because the fees were reduced when all the clubs started affiliating their events to ARC rather than UKA due to the ridiculous costs.  And I guess there some pressure from runners who do like to see their results on Pof10.  What I don't like is when someone says that their event is "run under UKA rules" or the course is UKA measured, but then you find out that it's not a UKA registered event that year although it might have been a few years ago. I think it's bit naughty if you run a PB and wait in vain for it to appear on Pof10.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Lotus Flower - often a lot of the local off road races may not be accurately measured - they may for example be advertised as "around 10 miles".  They may end up being 9.7 miles, or in one case locally it was 12 miles (and no, I didn't get lost!) image  For me, I don't care about this as these tough off road races are different and you can't really compare one course with another.  My main focus is how I am doing for me, and in comparison to my mates at the running club hence not being bothered about Pof10.

    For road races, yes I would want an "official" course, but that doesn't have to be UKA.

    I suppose this thread again goes to show that everyone is different, and that's great image

  • If I'm browsing for races I'll always check the runbritain race listings because you can be 99% sure that they are UKA licensed (the other 1% being 'Pending' licenses which never get completed, like my first and probably only ever race win in a small local race which was supposed to be licensed but they never finished the paperwork, but that's another story).

    As far as I'm concerned ARC races are on a par with fun runs, and I'd prefer it if the clubs that organised them would pick their toys up.

    I prefer my results - particularly PBs - to be on Power of 10 / Runbritain. I'll occasionally do a non UKA event if there's a particular location or charity that appeals to me, or friends keen to run it, when that happens then I log in and record the result in the 'About' section on my Po10 profile so that I can still see all results in the same place. As per literatin I wouldn't treat one of these as a goal race though.

  • UKA races are licensed and accurately measured. The red tape talked about here is only what any race director worth his salt would do anyway. UKA races have to conform to standards set out in the RunBritain handbook and an adjudicator is appointed for each race to make sure that the race does so. A race licence for a club is currently £25, but a lot more for a charity.

    If your club doesn't affiliate to UKA, then its members are ineligible for London Marathon club entries as well as other things mentioned.above. The individual affiliation fee is currently £10 and compares favourably with what other sports charged. ARC wants to take us back to the Stone Age.

  • Because i found the power of 10 limited ive just created a website that allows you to list all of your race results. www.allmytimes.com. It calculates pb's, graphs performance and allows you to share results with clubs / groups. Pardon the plug - but i thought it was relevant.

  • Getting the ressies out quickly and lots of toilets are the main thing - but ARC races are annoying.

    PO10 is still the main compiler, I want my PB's to be on there.

  • Fantasticroj, have to applaud your effort, but you have no realistic chance of competing with PO10.

    PO10 is a fantastic site, all you do is race, and they sort the rest!

    I believe there's some ARC type version, but pretty pointless really. Like Simon says, it's an arse when something isn't PO10, and that'll always be THE site you want to appear on.

  • Hi guys. I agree that its not an easy task. and I may be stupid for attempting it. 

    There are lots of runners who race who arent club members or members of England Athletics. They arent in the know. And there are those who dont like PO10 because it doesnt list all of their races (and sometimes the site grinds to a halt). I guess im just hoping that i can contact enough of them to sustain the site. 

    Im interested that you guys are so keen on it. I only know of a few people who are. I wonder if its more popular at the elite level?

    Thanks for your comments. See you out there.

     

  • Don't think it's just the elite level, and not only club members either.  You can get your results on Po10 even if you're unaffiliated.  I also like their sister site, Run Britain Rankings where you can see your handicap ratings and compare with other runners.

    But it's also free.  I know £1 a month for your site isn't a huge amount, but we're in a world with free apps and websites for all sorts of things so I think you'll struggle on that basis alone.

    And also fetcheveryone.com (also free) does pretty much this and a lot more...

     

    Don't take this as criticism, I just don't see where the gap in the market is for your site to fill?

  • I'm certain that the more competitive a runner you get, the keener they are on PO10 Roj.

    PO10 used to have some fairly tough entry levels, you had to go sub 28 for 5miles, and sub 58 for 10miles to even get it register!
    I don't think i ever achieved the 5k qualification, was it 16.30 or 16.45!

    These days it''s a lot more welcoming, and they list all the parkruns too, the most open to all event of them all.

     

    Just on another note, and i know it was 2 years back, 

    robin_hood wrote (see)

    UKA races are licensed and accurately measured. .

    Can i just chuckle at the naivety of the bolded words!

    Didn't seemingly ever road race in the North West get discovered as being short just last year image

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    I'm unaffiliated but it is possible to get your results listed on Runbritain/ Po10.

    I only count PBs from those that are listed on the above sites.
  • Po10 is definitely more inclusive than it used to be, even before considering the 50 squillion parkrun results it includes. I used to use the minimum requirements as targets; SG I think the 5k time was 16:40?  (The slowest 5,000m time I have listed for 2009 is 16:39, and I definitely ran slower that year.)  Certainly between Po10 and the RunBritain site, they've got most things covered.

    From a race organiser's point of view, I believe ARC has (or had) its advantages over UKA in terms of less paperwork for H&S, etc. and details of insurance cover, but let's not go down that political hot potato of worm-cannery, especially as I don't really know what I'm talking about.

  • Millsy wrote (see)
    I'm unaffiliated but it is possible to get your results listed on Runbritain/ Po10.
    I only count PBs from those that are listed on the above sites.

    Don't forget, there is a distinction between UKA licence certification and course measurement certification.  If the race has a course measurement certificate, I'd certainly take this for official PB purposes regardless of whether it's listed in Po10.  But it is nice having everything in one place.

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    Cheers for the info Phil.

    It's the OCD side of me that likes to see everything in the same place.
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