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Expecting to finish
Madbee
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I've been poking around a bit looking at ultras lately. I have done a couple of marathons and always find the longer training runs more enjoyable, so was playing with the idea of an ultra in the second half of next year, but looking at some of the available ones, they look so incredibly hard I don't think I'd expect to finish, no matter what my training has been like.
So those of you who do them fairly regularly, do you go into these incredible challenges expecting to finish, or is the interest and excitement in the not knowing whether or not you'll be able to? Having only ever done races where I'm confident of getting to the end in some manner, the idea of starting a race expecting a DNF, even in something 100 times more challenging, really goes against the grain, but it must enter your mind when you enter something really hard...
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Comments
Ha. It's not, actually
Why would you only do a race where you expect to finish? Where's the fun in that?
Enter something that scares the piss out of you, that you have no idea whether you'll have the courage to start or not, that's where you'll find who you really are.
I don't see the point in setting yourself up for failure by jumping to a ridiculously hard event - but everyone is different.
I've been reading to many of GKD's posts
I'm in the "what the hell, lets give it a go" camp.
what cougie said - if you're expecting to DNF you obviously haven't trained properly
that said, if it's a mega-long one that you haven't done before, you can't know exactly how it's going to go, so there's always a bit of a frisson on the start line - i.e. be nervous, but not scared witless
the only race I've ever been scared at the start of was the Kielder Borderer a few years ago, but that was because I was completely unfamiliar with the area and there was snow on the ground and the clag was down (and there were only 30-odd entrants and they all had north-east accents except me)
I didn't say you should expect not to finish, I said you shouldn't just do races you expect to finish. There should be an element of unknown in these things, if there isn't there where's the challenge? If you don't push your limits and court failure then how are you supposed to know where those limits are?
I'm not saying you all out every race but certainly you should be signing up to races where there's a real risk of failure. Personally I don't see failing because something was beyond my reach now as necessarily a bad thing, it just makes me want to reach further next time. We should always be reaching for the things just outside our grasp.
Madbee in two camp's here would never set myself a goal wouldn't be able to finesh but it's very nice to push it a little. Plus notihg is garentued you could DNF a 10k run just different persective.
There are a lot of ultra's out there just do some geeking set yourself a goal and take it from there working out how your going to met that goal.
Oh and GKD's post above should be plaster's all over these threads is genius and sum's up for me why I do races.
You have to be prepared to take risks in order to fulfil your potential, and fins out where your limits really are. Once you start entering the harder ultras, it is only a matter of time before you get a DNF, and with the very hardest races, you might make a calculation to try them knowing that the odds are against you.
I'm with cougie and DazTheSlug on this. I prefer to choose an event which will push me, train for it properly and know that I should be able to finish it. Doesn't mean I won't DNF due to something going wrong, but I don't see that going into it knowing that I might very well not be up to it is going to help me.
I didn't know that I would be able to finish my first 50-miler, but I knew I'd trained properly and ought to be able to. And if I can get my ankle sorted enough to get back to ultras I'd like to go for a 100-miler sometime, and I won't know whether or not I'll be able to do one until I try.
What not start ultras with a lapped/timed one? so you can see how far you get with the comfort of knowing that you're not too far from home? There's some great lapped events out there that might work for you. I've been thinking about them as a mini step up. An example is the Fowlmead Challenge in October. 8 hours and do as many laps as you want. Easy to navigate, nice crowd and you know the route.
Ben makes a good point - once the difficult increases, (distance, terrain, elevation, altitude etc...) then so does the possibility of not finishing.
I've gone into big races, (100-milers) without the confidence that I'd finish and given myself permission to drop at point "x" - needless to say, when things get hard that idea snowballs until it's unstoppable and I dropped even though I could have continued.
Conversely, I've also (recently) gone into a race full of bravado and confidence and unexpectedly found my limit at which point I dropped, but that's a whole different story!
Sorry, thought I'd been back to reply to this, obviously never finished doing so!
Interesting to read the responses. I guess unless you've done something similar you can't know for sure, cos you definitely can't go out doing 100 mile training runs or even get close, really.
Emmy, I think on a practical level that's a good idea, but I don't know if my mind would cope with laps! I go out of my way to avoid doing the same stretch on any training run, so to go round the same thing for longer than I've ever run before would be a real challenge mentally!
Madbee - I thought the same but if you go into it thinking: it'll be 14 laps (or whatever distance you're aiming for) and then you just work back from 14. Rather than thinking of the laps as individual items.
it's also hugely convenient if you're not being supported as you can leave everything in one place and just pick it up/drop it off as needed. I can highly recommend: http://www.saxon-shore.com/. They have marathons but also the timed events. The RD's are runners (one of which is the chairman of the 100marathon club and regularly runs 100milers).
If you're looking at 100milers - have a look at centurion running and the winter100. Its a cross almost of 25 miles so you're back at the start point every 25 miles so good for breaking down the distance.
I've been considering stepping up to the ultra distance but want to get to my 100 marathons first.
I love entering races that I don't know if I will finish..........that said I will put all the training in to give me the best possible chance........
I have wanted to do a 100 miler for a few years..so next year will be my attempt.i could have looked for easier ones.but incase I only ever do one then i wanted to do one that really inspired me.hence the lakeland 100........but I have 11 months to build myself up to it.......I will stand on the start line not knowing if I can... but giving it 100% and knowing there is a good chance that I will finish it
Not being 100% sure if I will finish is really for me what ultras are all about. As a mid-packer who is never going to run a super speedy marathon I find limited challenge in just working on going a bit faster. The thrill of finishing an ultra and discovering that I CAN do it, is like nothing else!
Of course, I don't enter anything that I don't feel I stand a good chance of finishing and I prepare as meticulously as possible to give myself the best chance of doing so, but with an ultra distance, until you get out there and give it a shot you don't quite know... And for me that is why it is such a big buzz!
DNF'd my first 100 and since then I haven't entered anything I didn't feel I could physically finish. I can't be certain i'll finish but I'm pretty damn sure my body is capable of doing it.
Every year my A race becomes increasingly harder and sooner or later i'll be caught out but it will only be through injury, illness or being timed out. Tiredness is not a reason to DNF. Next years A race will be no exception!
So in answer to the question Yes I do expect to finish because that is where I need to be mentally. Of course I may not but I expect to. The same surely must be said for a beginner doing there first 50. If you go in mentally right, why wouldn't you finish? If you only drop because of illness, injury or being timed out you can only succeed.
One thing that I will say, is that you can get pretty consistent in races with a 40-50% dropout rate. Once you have learned why people typically fail to finish, and what survival strategies can be used to prevent it, you can general make sure that you are not in the 40 or 50% that don’t finish.
top 3 DNF reasons that I've seen are:
1) using new shoes... feet ripped to shreds by blisters
2) going off too fast in the early stages
3) not eating/drinking enough (esp in early stages)
Daz - I'd also add in:
- Lack of mental preparation
- Lack of preparation in general (no recce of the course, dont understand what will be provided at aid stations)
I was going to mention the mental side, but I'm not sure if that's something you can prepare, or even get through experience
I have seen people just "crack" and retire, even though there's probably not too much wrong with them
what I try not to do is think about how much is left to the finish, just about the next section to the next CP...
if you've recce'd the course though, you should have a good idea of the "extent" of the challenge, so it shouldn't come as so much of a mental "shock"
it also help with pacing (one of my points)
Daz - completely agree. I think you can prepare mentally if you do the recce and good preparation and training. I know at the moment that i struggle with going a lot over marathon distance so wouldnt go and enter a 100 miler. I would build up and do a few middle distance ultras and go from there and get myself mentally confident with the distance.
Admittedly my mental strength has come from experience but the whole ultra thing is about the physical ability to complete and mental strength.
Pacing and nutrition become mental issues when you have to recover and continue from either mid race. You are spot on Daz, people do just crack. The option to pack it in is the easy way out. If I'm feeling low and susceptible to dropping I will enter an aid station with what I'm going to do mapped out in my head. Then I go in eat, drink, lube etc and then move on, no time to mull over dropping.
Blisters I can relate to, I have had some monsters in my time, never dropped because of them (yet) but they do come under the injury banner. People wearing new shoes to an ultra never fails to astonish me.
Recce schmecky, why spoil the surprise? Get to the startline in reasonable shape, wear your favourite big boy pants, dry your eyes and get on with.
Its only running. Or walking
Must admit don't do a lot of recceing either. When I say not a lot I mean none.
You really are more dedicated than you let on G
I tell other people to recce events, but never get round to doing it myself.