Jan - Marrakech Marathon Feb - poss. Thames Trot Mar - Ocean Floor Race (160 miles through the Egyptian White Desert) Apr - pacing at London May - pacing at MK, poss. Edinburgh Marathon (which could be the sub-3 attempt) June - Ultimate Trails 110km July - Lakeland 100
I would have had to defer Egypt had I succeeded in the asics262 but now it's full steam ahead getting desert gear etc!
I bet Sam says run as close to an even pace as possible for the whole race Tim.
I've tried to do this for the last 3 and it's a strategy that has definitely paid off for me.
emdee - I hear what you're saying re. -ve splits but I'd much rather finish strong knowing I could have done more than put too much in early and risk blowing up in the last 6.
But that's me - I only have a mere 9 marathons under my belt. With your experience you probably know exactly what pace to hit to leave you bang on empty by the time you hit the line
But that's me - I only have a mere 9 marathons under my belt. With your experience you probably know exactly what pace to hit to leave you bang on empty by the time you hit the line
Malcs - that's easy. Jog 26 miles and then sprint the last 0.2 miles flat out!!
Jan - Marrakech Marathon Feb - poss. Thames Trot Mar - Ocean Floor Race (160 miles through the Egyptian White Desert) Apr - pacing at London May - pacing at MK, poss. Edinburgh Marathon (which could be the sub-3 attempt) June - Ultimate Trails 110km July - Lakeland 100
I would have had to defer Egypt had I succeeded in the asics262 but now it's full steam ahead getting desert gear etc!
Wow, just wow!! You are a machine!! Where do you shop for desert gear?
Malcs Mentally I would prefer to go even pace, the challenge must be to get fit enough to run at that even pace rather than go out fast and fade like I have before.
DS2 I hope you have been a good boy this year, the running pixies and elves will have been keeping an eye on you! . Oh and I think you will all be keeping me busy enough on this thread rather than manage another thread
SupermanRuns - the real beauty of even paced marathon running is that the first half feels really easy because you are way slower than half marathon PB pace. I think perceived wisdom is to expect a 1-2 minute drop-off for the second half though, so aiming to go through half way in 1:43:30 would be ideal, especially if you can already run a half marathon some 9 or 10 minutes quicker.
Like your answer to the additional thread question
Marathon pace or slightly slower but not faster. I kind of get what emdee says about not being too conservative in the first half - I think the whole negative split thing is over played slightly, but to be strong in the last 6 you need to control it in the first 16-18.
This is how I usually break pace down, more or less:
Miles 1 - 6 - constantly checking pace and slowing down. Its easy to get carried away here and you just have to let those around you go. You'll be seeing them again before the end of the race.
Miles 6 - 13 - starting to settle and feeling comfortable. I'm normally still feeling a bit anxious about how its going - am I too fast, too slow etc Just keep checking the mile pace is right.
Miles 13 - 18 - getting into it now. Toward the end of this section people around will be starting to show signs of fatigue setting in, but I'm not one of them and neither will you be.
When I hit 18 miles on target I know its game on and start to feel the excitement.
Miles 18 - 22 - yep its getting tougher. The pace is still there but having to work harder for it. Its too early to starting giving it all you've got though. Keep it in control.
Miles 22 - 25 - keep the pace, keep the pace. My mantra is: maximum effort, minimum pain (give it as much effort as you can but make sure its not 100%, keep a little something in the bag)
Mile 25 - I always give myself 10 minutes from here, knowing that I will finish within that. Now's the time to give it all you've got. Emotions start to run high; you know you've got it in the bag but can't celebrate yet. Push, push push to the line.
I'm not sure if Freemers is dropping in here but this is why you need something for the final miles. In London last year I spotted her ahead of me at 22-23 miles. I knew she was running really well and thought if I could catch up with her I could probably hang on for the last few miles. I worked at it over the last mile and caught up with her at the 24 mile mark. This gave me such and adrenaline rush that I went past and kept going. She followed! We each ran our fastest mile at 7:09! To feel that strong in the closing miles was worth all the holding back in the first few.
Sorry - bit late to the party, been reading and lurking. Really looking forward to Soups' journey to Paris
What Minni isn't saying is that after that 7.09 mile she left me for dead in the last mile and finished half a minute ahead . Not that I really minded as we both got huge PBs
Brilliant breakdown Minni, great advice for everyone there! I'll be running my third marathon in London come April so I'm still a proper novice at it but that definitely sounds like the sort of thing I should be doing.
Was wondering what peoples feelings were about using the RW pacers? My first marathon was VLM 2014 and my plan was sub4:30 (I know, prob asking this in the wrong thread but you've all got such fabulous experiences to share and great advice to impart...). I ran with the 4:15 pacer as I knew I could sustain this pace for 18-20 miles, then I was hoping I could hang on in the last 6 or if I slowed I'd still get my target. As it was I lost the pacer at about 18-19 miles, decided to just drop my pace by a min/mile and run my own race from there on. In the end I finished in 4:28 and was totally thrilled. I found leaving the pacing to someone else really helpful as I could just run. (Have to 'big-up' Rob Evans (pacer) as he was spot on timing wise; we went through the half in 2:07.27, perfect!)
For VLM this year, I'm planning on a similar strategy (provided everything goes ok in training!) and will set off with the 3:45 pacer with the plan to achieve a sub4. My half marathon PB suggests sub4 is achievable but do people think I should just set off with the 4hr pacer and try to run it even?
Minni I only asked about the first 6 miles That is one excellent breakdown. I love it. I am getting, well like DS2 says, goosebumps reading it. It is brilliant thanks. And you will be back stronger in the autumn!
Hi Freemers lovely to hear from you. You girls experiences will be as invaluable as the training etc.
I am speaking with Ruth the nutritionist tomorrow so will report back on this. I know this is something I need a lot of help with hence an early interaction with her.
Great question Bethlehem running bunny! Although not one I know the answer to. Although I would suggest the latter and run it even however you would want to gauge how the training goes first? Might be you are so strong in training you feel you can run 3.45 and evenly?
Bethlehem running buddy - I'm a 3:30 pacer at London so it's great to hear you value our services! I think your plan is a good one - we rarely end up with many people who've stuck with us the whole race, with people either pushing on or dropping off. Sticking with the 3:45 pacer and dropping off a little towards the end if you need to is a great way to get a solid sub-4.
Superman - desert kit.. Places like likeys, ultramarathonrunningstore. Tbh the only really desert specific things I need are a cap with a long back bit and some sand gaiters. It turns out some of the inov-8 clothing I already have is UPF 50 so that'll do! I have a lightweight sleeping bag, good running pack (ok, 3) and so on. I quite enjoy the freeze dried expedition food too so that helps.
Minni - that's a great description and it definitely resonates!
Malc - not quite. I know exactly what pace I can go at and keep relatively even and put in a good race performance, a sub-3:15 or so. Pushing it beyond that is a calculated risk. Pace/speed work etc is obviously a factor as is general conditioning, but so are all those less controllable factors - the weather, stress levels from other factors (work and so on) and other things. I think for anyone to run a PB, the work has to be done in training, as much done as possible to mitigate external factors and crucially getting to the start line with your head in the right place.
I will be found on Thomas's sub-3 thread, but sub-3:30 is my spiritual home, particularly as that's what I do as a pacer. Hope you don't mind me hanging out here.
Emdee:if you pace MK which pacing will you be doing? The sub 3:30? MK is planned to be my sub 3:30 attempt all going well in training.
Soups, I look forward to hearing any wisdom Ruth imparts on you, nutrition was one of the main things I entered the Asics comp for, and having just had a bottle of wine, steak fillet and nice chocolate dessert probably need!!
Loved the race breakdown Minni. Makes sense applying it in a race is another thing...
I have received my plan and need to read it and check a few of Sam's points but will post up the first month later this evening. I am like a kid in the Woolworths pick n mix zone being told money is no object and not just trying to work out what sweets weigh least.
For reference, flying saucers weighed the least. Flump marshmallows were always far heavier than anticipated.
Sam has highlighted 3 key areas following our 121. Nutrition, Mindset & Current Training. Given the I was mid training for an ultra and had a marathon planned for Sunday, the mileage on the training plan is slightly higher than would normally be found. Here is the first month.
Week One(31M) w/c 22 Dec Mon 5M easy Tue Rest/cross-train Wed 7M of 1M jog, then 4 x 1M (approx 6.55 pace) with 400m (3-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog Thu REST Fri 4M steady plus 4 x 100m strides Sat Rest/cross-train Sun 15M – 10 miles slower than 8.45, 5 miles at 8-8.40
Week Two(35M) w/c 29 Dec Mon REST Tue 6M of 1M jog, then 2 x 2m brisk (aiming for 7.10 pace), with 400m (3-min) jog recovery, then 1M jog Wed 4M slow (ideally off-road) Thu 4M starting easy, finish steady
Fri Rest/cross-train
Sat parkrun plus warm-up/cooldown
Sun 16M slow
Week Three(37M) w/c 5 Jan Mon Rest Tue 8M of 1M jog, then 5 x 1M (6.55 pace), with 400m (3-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog Wed 4M slow recovery (or cross-train) Thu 4M steady plus 4 x 100m strides Fri Rest/cross-train Sat 4M to include 1M jog, then 5 x 3 mins of continuous hills (find a stretch of not-too-steep hill that takes 30-45 secs to run up and run up AND down at brisk effort level without stopping for each 3-min duration. Rest 1 minute between sets.) 1M jog Sun 17M run at 8.45-9 to include 3 x 2 miles at MP (8-min pace) separated by a mile back at the easy pace. Do these in the latter half of the run.
Week Four (31M) w/c 12 Jan Mon Rest Tue 6M of 1M jog, then 5 x 800m ( 5km pace), with 2-min (200m) jog recoveries, then 1M jog Wed 8M easy Thu 1M jog, then 3M brisk (aim for half marathon pace), then 1M jog Fri Rest/cross-train Sat 4M slow plus 4 x 100m strides Sun 8M of 1M jog, then race 10K or 5M, then 1M jog.
I will be reporting back to Sam each week to assess how I have performed how I have found the training and the following 12 weeks might be adapted dependant on how I get on. It is clear I need nutritional help, Ruth is booked for tomorrow. The final key is mindset. Those final 6 miles. Here were go. This is it. This is what I entered for. Time to fire up the trainers.
The Running Andy I had to request Christmas Day off. Sam is a hard task master. . She has written an excellent intro to my plan which outlines postives, things to work on etc. It is excellent. Step away from the pick and mix buddy!
Nice one soups! And stop worrying about those last 6 miles. It's Sam's job to look at your weaknesses and address them. She'll do that just fine. Trust in the training.
Comments
Thanks Andrea that is brilliant, and thanks hubby! Got me even more inspired than I was!
Tim - I have a few things lined up!
Jan - Marrakech Marathon
Feb - poss. Thames Trot
Mar - Ocean Floor Race (160 miles through the Egyptian White Desert)
Apr - pacing at London
May - pacing at MK, poss. Edinburgh Marathon (which could be the sub-3 attempt)
June - Ultimate Trails 110km
July - Lakeland 100
I would have had to defer Egypt had I succeeded in the asics262 but now it's full steam ahead getting desert gear etc!
I bet Sam says run as close to an even pace as possible for the whole race Tim.
I've tried to do this for the last 3 and it's a strategy that has definitely paid off for me.
emdee - I hear what you're saying re. -ve splits but I'd much rather finish strong knowing I could have done more than put too much in early and risk blowing up in the last 6.
But that's me - I only have a mere 9 marathons under my belt. With your experience you probably know exactly what pace to hit to leave you bang on empty by the time you hit the line
I've ordered a new right foot!!!!
SupermanRuns - why haven't you set up your other thread yet, the Sub 4?
Pull your finger out, man!
Malcs - that's easy. Jog 26 miles and then sprint the last 0.2 miles flat out!!
Emdee...um...wow
Wow, just wow!! You are a machine!! Where do you shop for desert gear?
Malcs Mentally I would prefer to go even pace, the challenge must be to get fit enough to run at that even pace rather than go out fast and fade like I have before.
DS2 I hope you have been a good boy this year, the running pixies and elves will have been keeping an eye on you! . Oh and I think you will all be keeping me busy enough on this thread rather than manage another thread
Blinking 'eck emdee. impressive stuff!
SupermanRuns - the real beauty of even paced marathon running is that the first half feels really easy because you are way slower than half marathon PB pace. I think perceived wisdom is to expect a 1-2 minute drop-off for the second half though, so aiming to go through half way in 1:43:30 would be ideal, especially if you can already run a half marathon some 9 or 10 minutes quicker.
Like your answer to the additional thread question
Marathon pace or slightly slower but not faster. I kind of get what emdee says about not being too conservative in the first half - I think the whole negative split thing is over played slightly, but to be strong in the last 6 you need to control it in the first 16-18.
This is how I usually break pace down, more or less:
Miles 1 - 6 - constantly checking pace and slowing down. Its easy to get carried away here and you just have to let those around you go. You'll be seeing them again before the end of the race.
Miles 6 - 13 - starting to settle and feeling comfortable. I'm normally still feeling a bit anxious about how its going - am I too fast, too slow etc Just keep checking the mile pace is right.
Miles 13 - 18 - getting into it now. Toward the end of this section people around will be starting to show signs of fatigue setting in, but I'm not one of them and neither will you be.
When I hit 18 miles on target I know its game on and start to feel the excitement.
Miles 18 - 22 - yep its getting tougher. The pace is still there but having to work harder for it. Its too early to starting giving it all you've got though. Keep it in control.
Miles 22 - 25 - keep the pace, keep the pace. My mantra is: maximum effort, minimum pain (give it as much effort as you can but make sure its not 100%, keep a little something in the bag)
Mile 25 - I always give myself 10 minutes from here, knowing that I will finish within that. Now's the time to give it all you've got. Emotions start to run high; you know you've got it in the bag but can't celebrate yet. Push, push push to the line.
I'm going to miss my Spring marathon this year.
I'm not sure if Freemers is dropping in here but this is why you need something for the final miles. In London last year I spotted her ahead of me at 22-23 miles. I knew she was running really well and thought if I could catch up with her I could probably hang on for the last few miles. I worked at it over the last mile and caught up with her at the 24 mile mark. This gave me such and adrenaline rush that I went past and kept going. She followed! We each ran our fastest mile at 7:09! To feel that strong in the closing miles was worth all the holding back in the first few.
Hello Minni
Sorry - bit late to the party, been reading and lurking. Really looking forward to Soups' journey to Paris
What Minni isn't saying is that after that 7.09 mile she left me for dead in the last mile and finished half a minute ahead . Not that I really minded as we both got huge PBs
Freemers I wasn't going to tell them that!! You're right, it was our own individual times that mattered... not who crossed the line first!
Actually gave me goosebumps!
Brilliant breakdown Minni, great advice for everyone there! I'll be running my third marathon in London come April so I'm still a proper novice at it but that definitely sounds like the sort of thing I should be doing.
Was wondering what peoples feelings were about using the RW pacers? My first marathon was VLM 2014 and my plan was sub4:30 (I know, prob asking this in the wrong thread but you've all got such fabulous experiences to share and great advice to impart...). I ran with the 4:15 pacer as I knew I could sustain this pace for 18-20 miles, then I was hoping I could hang on in the last 6 or if I slowed I'd still get my target. As it was I lost the pacer at about 18-19 miles, decided to just drop my pace by a min/mile and run my own race from there on. In the end I finished in 4:28 and was totally thrilled. I found leaving the pacing to someone else really helpful as I could just run. (Have to 'big-up' Rob Evans (pacer) as he was spot on timing wise; we went through the half in 2:07.27, perfect!)
For VLM this year, I'm planning on a similar strategy (provided everything goes ok in training!) and will set off with the 3:45 pacer with the plan to achieve a sub4. My half marathon PB suggests sub4 is achievable but do people think I should just set off with the 4hr pacer and try to run it even?
Minni I only asked about the first 6 miles That is one excellent breakdown. I love it. I am getting, well like DS2 says, goosebumps reading it. It is brilliant thanks. And you will be back stronger in the autumn!
Hi Freemers lovely to hear from you. You girls experiences will be as invaluable as the training etc.
I am speaking with Ruth the nutritionist tomorrow so will report back on this. I know this is something I need a lot of help with hence an early interaction with her.
Great question Bethlehem running bunny! Although not one I know the answer to. Although I would suggest the latter and run it even however you would want to gauge how the training goes first? Might be you are so strong in training you feel you can run 3.45 and evenly?
Superman - desert kit.. Places like likeys, ultramarathonrunningstore. Tbh the only really desert specific things I need are a cap with a long back bit and some sand gaiters. It turns out some of the inov-8 clothing I already have is UPF 50 so that'll do! I have a lightweight sleeping bag, good running pack (ok, 3) and so on. I quite enjoy the freeze dried expedition food too so that helps.
Minni - that's a great description and it definitely resonates!
Malc - not quite. I know exactly what pace I can go at and keep relatively even and put in a good race performance, a sub-3:15 or so. Pushing it beyond that is a calculated risk. Pace/speed work etc is obviously a factor as is general conditioning, but so are all those less controllable factors - the weather, stress levels from other factors (work and so on) and other things. I think for anyone to run a PB, the work has to be done in training, as much done as possible to mitigate external factors and crucially getting to the start line with your head in the right place.
I will be found on Thomas's sub-3 thread, but sub-3:30 is my spiritual home, particularly as that's what I do as a pacer. Hope you don't mind me hanging out here.
Running, love it
Emdee:if you pace MK which pacing will you be doing? The sub 3:30? MK is planned to be my sub 3:30 attempt all going well in training.
Soups, I look forward to hearing any wisdom Ruth imparts on you, nutrition was one of the main things I entered the Asics comp for, and having just had a bottle of wine, steak fillet and nice chocolate dessert probably need!!
Loved the race breakdown Minni. Makes sense applying it in a race is another thing...
I have received my plan and need to read it and check a few of Sam's points but will post up the first month later this evening. I am like a kid in the Woolworths pick n mix zone being told money is no object and not just trying to work out what sweets weigh least.
For reference, flying saucers weighed the least. Flump marshmallows were always far heavier than anticipated.
Soups it was kids like you that changed the whole sweet buying scene and turned it into a what can I squeeze into the pot.
Emdee, its still likely then we'll bump into each other around mile 23-24 when I die from trying to keep up with the sub 3:30 person
Oh has to be flying sauces! Marshmallows make you feel sick quicker!
Hello all!
Sam has highlighted 3 key areas following our 121. Nutrition, Mindset & Current Training. Given the I was mid training for an ultra and had a marathon planned for Sunday, the mileage on the training plan is slightly higher than would normally be found. Here is the first month.
Week One (31M) w/c 22 Dec
Mon 5M easy
Tue Rest/cross-train
Wed 7M of 1M jog, then 4 x 1M (approx 6.55 pace) with 400m (3-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Thu REST
Fri 4M steady plus 4 x 100m strides
Sat Rest/cross-train
Sun 15M – 10 miles slower than 8.45, 5 miles at 8-8.40
Week Two (35M) w/c 29 Dec
Mon REST
Tue 6M of 1M jog, then 2 x 2m brisk (aiming for 7.10 pace), with 400m (3-min) jog recovery, then 1M jog
Wed 4M slow (ideally off-road)
Thu 4M starting easy, finish steady
Fri Rest/cross-train
Sat parkrun plus warm-up/cooldown
Sun 16M slow
Week Three (37M) w/c 5 Jan
Mon Rest
Tue 8M of 1M jog, then 5 x 1M (6.55 pace), with 400m (3-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 4M slow recovery (or cross-train)
Thu 4M steady plus 4 x 100m strides
Fri Rest/cross-train
Sat 4M to include 1M jog, then 5 x 3 mins of continuous hills (find a stretch of not-too-steep hill that takes 30-45 secs to run up and run up AND down at brisk effort level without stopping for each 3-min duration. Rest 1 minute between sets.) 1M jog
Sun 17M run at 8.45-9 to include 3 x 2 miles at MP (8-min pace) separated by a mile back at the easy pace. Do these in the latter half of the run.
Week Four (31M) w/c 12 Jan
Mon Rest
Tue 6M of 1M jog, then 5 x 800m ( 5km pace), with 2-min (200m) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Wed 8M easy
Thu 1M jog, then 3M brisk (aim for half marathon pace), then 1M jog
Fri Rest/cross-train
Sat 4M slow plus 4 x 100m strides
Sun 8M of 1M jog, then race 10K or 5M, then 1M jog.
I will be reporting back to Sam each week to assess how I have performed how I have found the training and the following 12 weeks might be adapted dependant on how I get on. It is clear I need nutritional help, Ruth is booked for tomorrow. The final key is mindset. Those final 6 miles. Here were go. This is it. This is what I entered for. Time to fire up the trainers.
By the looks of thing if that's a sub 3:30 beginning weeks plan I really need to step things up...
The Running Andy I had to request Christmas Day off. Sam is a hard task master. . She has written an excellent intro to my plan which outlines postives, things to work on etc. It is excellent. Step away from the pick and mix buddy!