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Sub 3 Tom: #asics262
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Steve - I was hoping to try and follow Tom's plan but he's completely out of my league speed wise.
I know this is a sub 3 thread but what would you recommend for someone who is aiming for somewhere between 3 and 3:15?
Would it be appropriate to follow Tom's schedule but reduce the paces and/or mileage?
Btw. great to hear that you have sub 3 in your sights. Do I take it the injury woes of last year are finally put to bed? I really hope so, you deserve a better 2015.
What sort of mileage are you doing Malcs?With a broadly similar target (prob closer to 3:15) I'm 40-50 mi at present and was thinking to peak somewhere near 60
Nowhere near that Nayan. In fact I'm nursing a little niggle at the moment so I've only been doing a few short ones here and there.
When I did 3:14 in October I was doing 35-45 mow but I'm expecting to have to increase that if I want to improve.
Malcs
I think the schedule just needs a slight adjustment in paces (approx 30 secs a mile slower) but the volume should be similar for a sub 3:15.
In fact, Amy on the sub-4 is a similar plan too - just a slower pace (and more rest days) and for instance Tom on a Sunday 2 hour run will go a few miles further than someone doing a 4 hour pace even if the time is the same.
Time on feet is important for all speeds but of course the faster you are, the less time you are on your feet!
From your improvement, I would think you are capable of much quicker than 3:15 though and I could end up running with you like in Paris.
The Tuesday speed sessions are still going on at the Palace in the New Year so if it fits in come along though we have hill sessions the next two weeks.
My speed isn't great (for me) at the moment and I am certainly not in sub-3 shape - yet - maybe just 3:05-3:10. Last year I peaked too early and probably was in sub-3 shape on Jan 1 but was injured throughout virtually all Feb and March. This year hope to be in sub-3 shape in April but remains to be seen if my body can take its 40th successive year of marathon preparation.
all being well, I will be pretty much following Tom's schedule (with slightly slower paces) but I intend to put in an extra 2 week block of training when the Paris taper kicks in.
Thanks Steve, that's brilliant!
Really glad to hear you're back in business injury wise. Wow, is this year 40? Someone needs to bake a cake! Tom, we know you can run but how's your Victoria sandwich?
It would be totally awesome to run together again. Of course when you say 'run together' you mean you running and me trying to keep up
Sadly I don't have a London place for April, I can't use my GFA until next year
(I'm assuming you're doing London?).
Would be great to come up and do a few sessions at Palace again. I think Tim was dead keen too if that's ok with you and it doesn't impinge on what Sam has planned.
I'm away the next couple of Tuesdays but that's probably a good thing as I need to get over this little foot issue that I picked up. In the new year I'll come up for sure.
Thanks again!
London is effectively my 40th season of preparation as first marathon was October 1976 and have done at least one a year ever since (3-4 a year when younger but now one's more than enough).
Fine with Tim to come too to Palace.
Wow, look at that, Steve posting at a reasonable hour of the day
That shopping day sounds like utter heaven. Although if I'm honest I would prefer to do the same thing in the Adidas store. Asics shoes just don't fit my feet!
Wow! I'm punching well above my weight on this thread.. or is that below.. Hi it's #bootcamper30 reporting in to say congratulations Tom! Based on your stats their it sounds like you're starting in a good position to assault this 3hr monster. Good luck!
Good to hear that Amy's plan isn't too dissimilar to yours with the paces turned down a notch.
Tom, do you do any cross-training? and do you have any races planned before Paris? What about the nutritional side, have you met up with Ruth yet? What does someone with a visceral 1 need to worry about?
I will try and keep up with you on your thread.. not on the track!
for those interested in Crystal palace someone found this old pathe news from 1967 when it was new - hasn't changed much in 47 years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2b72ixNvC8&feature=youtu.be
Wow - awesome!
no ski slope now which is shame as would have been good for hills!
Malcs, you’d have to be mad to trust me in the kitchen! Be great to have you and Tim down at Crystal Palace. Hope you get over your niggle.
Bramster, thanks for the encouragement. I like to keep fit in the gym so might try to do that on rest days and also on the days of shorter runs. I don’t cycle, swim or do any other endurance fitness though.
I’ve got 3-4 XC races around 10km and Steve and I discussed a half marathon, but nothing has been confirmed yet.
I haven’t spoken with Ruth about nutrition yet. Apparently she doesn’t normally do much work with the team until after Xmas. Is that right Malcs? I’m really excited to learn about it though. Speaking to last year’s sub-3 winner, Roger at Bootcamp, he said it helped him massively.
Your schedule for tomorrow says XC race or parkrun. Which is it to be? And how did you get on with the progression run?
Progression run felt very comfortable and relaxed. Unfortunately I'm travelling away from London to visit family for Christmas tomorrow, so no Parkrun or XC race. I'll do a run at race pace on my own insted
lol
Palace isn't exactly short of hills though Steve!
Tom - bugger, I'll have to make it myself then. It'll be like one of those disaster cakes they show on GBBO A Second Slice
Will get down to the track in the new year I'm sure.
You're right about Ruth. I think she likes to give everyone Christmas off before tearing their diets to pieces. She's probably already had her spy cams out and is probably tutting at the footage as we speak
Erm Malcs I think you'll find it's actually called an EXTRA slice
lol
...and the cake responsibility goes to Sean. Thanks Sean
No worries - my 11 year old daughter can knock up a mean Victoria Sponge, although the kitchen is a complete disaster site after lol
I like the sound of cake intervals.. we do them at Hackney Marshes parkrun on the 1st Saturday of every month.. actually it's more tempo with tea and cake.
Tom! what gym exercises do you do that will also help me get below sub4 and into sub330 shape? I decided to get into the gym 6 months ago and this has helped destroy my 10k PB by 4mins oh and my 5k PB enroute, sadly 2 weeks after bootcamp.. but I just do large muscle groups.. upper and lower (squats/calf raises). Do you know any running specific exercises that would be more beneficial?
Hiya Tom, thanks for the luck- really enjoyed brockwell parkrun- nice scenery and nice ups and downs- didn't go all out as my legs are quite fatigued from weights session on thurs plus I have a 5 mile race on Boxing Day, Ran around in 22:48- met up with Amy #pocketrocket and she set off ahead of me- had her in my sights all around and did try to catch her over the last 800m- but she is a very strong runner and didn't quite manage to get her. Hopefully will have an opportunity to race it soon...did u parkrun today?
well run Angela (and Amy too.). I did a very average 8 mile cross-country race today.
Bramster - I need to get back to the gym myself more and do more stretching and core work as well as some strength work and what you do should help make you stronger but the gym can't make up for not doing enough running but if you have the time after doing the running then fine.
Tom may be able to give his own specific exercises that have helped him.
Nice work Angela! Good to see people getting together!
Do it Steve! The gym has transformed my times in just 6 months! We've got a reasonable gym at work so very accessible. I run approx 4-5 times a week otherwise and have some speed but need to sort endurance, the reason I entered the competition. I'll be lurking on the threads to see what it is that's eluding me. Could be nutrition as I haven't a clue about that. Lately I find MP efforts in the latter part of long runs to be very telling, ie. helpful.
Tom look forward to those exercises! and any other tid bits of enduro info that you can share.
Bramster – core is key. Makes you a lot more efficient and takes the stress away from lower leg muscles. I’ve always done a load of abdominal work but never lower back stuff. Sarah Conners taught us the reverse plank at bootcamp which I’ve been doing since. I’ve also found doing strength exercises for all leg muscles including hip flexors has really helped reduce 5 & 10km times.
Before bootcamp I’d never run on a track, but had done a lot of work speed work on treadmills. Some people hate them, but I’ve always found interval training on treadmills really beneficial. Play around with the pace, but in principle mix faster reps (quicker than 5km pace) with slower rest periods and repeat.
Angela – awesome running (and you Amy)! Sounds like you’re training seriously hard. Be great to join you on a parkrun after Chrstmas. Where is your boxing day race?
First official day of the training plan tomorrow - bring it on!
Tom thanks for the info on core and all leg muscle strengthening. I'm doing 100+ sit-ups at each gym session which might explain some improvements.. but I wouldnt say my core is strong. Agree with your comment on efficiency and so I will pay them more attention in future!
I find interval sessions on a treadmill great, esp. a bit faster than 5k pace as you need to learn to turn those feet over faster somehow.
Good luck with the start of training. Is there anything in the plan that you are nervous or unsettled about?
Treadmill is great for intervals in one way but do feel it's a lazy way as you set the pace and then jump on. It's not the same as setting the pace yourself on road or track or grass which actually requires some judgement. So personally I would only do if the weather made it impossible in the real world!
re weights, it won't make the same difference to improvement as running but it could plug a weakness if more running isn't practical.
Most of the world's top marathoners don't do much weights work but most of the top track runners do.
I did find a regular weights programme helped my 10km running a long time ago when i set my PB but a broken wrist when cycling a few months back has delayed me doing any weights so far this winter.
I did a poor long run today which was hopefully because of the cross-country but felt I needed the mileage prior to christmas so I can at least start the new year in better shape.
Based on today's run, I am likely to be closer to Amy in the sub 4s than Thomas in the sub 3s.
Unlikely Steve, unless you injure yourself again!
I hate using the treadmill for fast running, I just get way too sweaty. When it's too icy to run outdoors I'll do it, but I don't like it. I use it 2 or 3 times a week for easy runs though, just for a change of surface and to fill in the time before Body Pump class usually.
Tom, I see Christmas day involves 3 miles at HMP, but only in a six mile run (slacker - I'm doing 11
) How does that fit with family plans? I'm running to parkrun, having a blast around there then running home again in time to open presents before mum gets tied up in the kitchen.