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Sub 3 Tom: #asics262
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I would usually round up a run, and indeed ran around a car park today to get exactly 17 miles, but yesterday I have to admit to stopping at 11.95 as I was too cold to contemplate running for even a second more than necessary.
And yes, I think I should invest in ice skates. Today's run was horrible. I spent 11 miles of it slipping around like bambi on ice, and the other 6 dodging hoards and hoards of pedestrians. Never got into my stride at all. Grrr.
Very light week next week before I start my schedule for VMLM on 5th Jan.
On the gels front I favour High 5 gels. I find them lighter and easier to take on the run, although you do run the risk of spilling them down your front. I don't bother on runs of less than 18 miles usually, unless it's a really hard run or I'm losing too much weight. I do think I recover better if I take them so when I get into serious mileage I will do, whether I think I need them or not. Only 61 miles this week so really not required.
I only take gels if I am practising getting the bastard things open for race day, but I can't even swallow a whole packet of Hi5 as they are too disgusting, so I only ever use SiS isogels (no caffeine). Lemon and lime flavour is the least offensive. Otherwise I don't bother taking anything.
My run today was 15.01 miles.
I did 20 today - weather better down South as conditions good.
could have done with a gel myself today and I prefer the SIS ones normally as they are very easy to digest and don't require water but high 5 ok and power gel too are good.
The SIS ones are vile. I had a tropical one once that made me so ill my poo was green!
Thanks TR, I already do that, after following a tip on the forums the first time! But I still like to practise taking one or two on training runs just to make sure they still don't make me poo myself or anything. I'm a bit superstitious.
Speedy - I avoid tropical flavour anything on principle in case there is (fake) banana (flavour) in there.
I don't blame you practising Literatin. I am always traumatised by a guy who was running just in front on me at the Chester Marathon a few years back. He had an "explosive moment" at the 20 mile stage. To be fair though he carried on and beat me by quite a bit. I was glad he ran on faster than me because the smell was awful...... I always use the SIS blackcurrant ones and can't bring myself to try anything else.
By the way hi Tom, I've been lurking for a bit and will be following your progress with interest and will use some of your training schedules as am aiming for sub 3 myself the week after you, at the Manchester marathon. You certainly seem to have the speed. All the best for the weeks ahead.....
"Thoughts on gels" - forums are littered with runners saying how disgusting gels are, how they have made them feel ill, how hard they are to open, how they dropped half of them on the way round. So my question is why bother with them at all?
I have never taken a gel and I have survived eight years of marathon training simply on lucozade sport. Obviously if you are fine with them that is good, but why try to force yourself to get used to something you don't need at the risk of ruining your race?
I can't drink lucozade sport, One Gear. It's even more disgusting than gels.
Speaking for myself, I take gels because I can, because they don't make me ill, and because even though I suspect I can probably manage a marathon without them, I don't have to and there is a chance they might help.
The stomach can be trained to get used to wahtever fuel you are expecting on race day, not liking the taste doesnt come into it, as its fuel. The elites that get round in not much over 2hrs might only take a few swigs of drink, but mortals will be better served taking fuel on, its energy. Ive run 26m in training on fresh air but I wouldnt do it in a race. There is a school of though thats says that the more fuel you can digest then the faster you can keep running.
re gels it is a matter of taste and having positive experiences with them. However, personally I have found they have made a big difference to my ability to maintain a pace from 20 miles compared to when I don't have them. I have had no negative reaction to gels in the last 10 years of racing and occasionally use them in training but very sparingly.
Ruth will no doubt, go into the nutritional needs later in the thread.
As I said, if you get on with gels that is fine. What I don't understand is the people who don't get on with them who continually try to force them down with dire consequences. Personally, I wouldn't use anything that I hadn't used in my long training runs. This is quite specific - 3 sips of lucozade sport every 40 minutes. Not that I am obsessive about the detail or anything!!!???
Hi Tom - enjoying the thread and it sounds as if you've had a great week 1 of training.
As the marathon newbie - and someone who's never run more than 16 miles - I've never used gels before. On HMs I've grabbed a bit of what's been on offer - water, lucozade sport & jelly babies from well-wishers but never gels. There's some debate as to whether they're necessary - Steve suggests they helped him post 20 mile mark - with One Gear opting for lucozade sports (sounds more me). Other than gels and sports drinks, what are the alternatives?
only a few races will have lucozade sport. so if you only ever use that then you would have to carry all your own supply for the 26 miles. I prefer to train to use a few different things.. but love sweets but use caffiene isogels in racing
Thanks seren nos yn canu. Not sure I like the idea of carrying a drink around for 4 hours
. What brand of caffeine isogels do you use?
the high 5 ones. they work for me. and are easy to take down as iso.
taste isn't great but as pointed out it is for the race not a night out
taste isn't that bad as managed to take in 14 during the bike leg of a triathlon without any ill effect
Speedy – 17 miles already and you have not stared your VMLM schedule… Literatin – 15 miles for you and Steve, 20 for you! I’ve clearly got some catching up to do! Impressive.
Thanks for the info on gels. Might try a few to see what I get on with as it seems different gels work for different people. SIS seems to be the front runner with high 5 a close second at the moment! Looking forward to hearing Ruth’s advice. I’m always bemused by the people with gel belts carrying 10 or so gels at the start of the race!
Stan – good luck in Manchester and thanks for sharing your “explosive moment”!! Sounds horrific.
Ant – the pick n mix from the well-wishers is tempting but risky strategy!
Tom - yes worth trying in some of the longer runs before making your mind up and whether you do notice an improvement - nb taste and reaction can be different due to dehydration etc and some gels taste better at 20 miles and some much worse.
12 miles is normally enough at this stage of the schedule - I thought i needed one more 20 for 2014 as couldn't do any in February or March due to injury!
Hi Tom,
I'm another SiS gel man, without the caffeine.
I've managed 4 sub 3 marathons on the spin, and never hit the wall, which means I'd be reluctant to try one without them. I take every 4 miles or so (so 5-6 in total), consequently I normally start with 7 to cover emergencies. I also find having a planned routine (like hitting each 4 mile point) is good for you mentally as it gives you something to focus on / countdown to.
I'll take a max of 2 of the longest, hardest training runs, but generally prefer to do it without them if possible. This trains you mentally as well as physically. when I do a race longer than 10km though I'll use them same as a marathon, mostly so that I am used to them for the big day.
Good luck, it sounds like you're in good hands. It probably feels easy right now, the trick is not to burn yourself out by going too fast too early and too often, which has happened to friends of mine.
I was only mentioning the 15.01 miles as it wasn't 14.99 or even 14.97...
Hi Tom, I've tried various gels in the past, and tried Torq caffeine gels for my most recent marathon this year, and it's my personal favourite to date! Like CDUB72, I try not to use any gels during training runs, other than to test out new gels including any new flavours
Interesting re the differing taste depending on dehydration.
CDUB72, every 4 miles seems a lot? You must have a sweet tooth!
This could be turning into an expensive experiment as they’re not cheap. Worth getting right I guess!
Easy 4.3 miles averaging 7:45 minute miles today. Continuous hill circuit tomorrow. Going to be another cold one!
Thanks literatin!!
Tom - High5 gels for me.....slightly smaller than some of the others and so easier on the stomach. I usually take a caffeine version on the start line and then every 5k or so to about 30k when the stomach starts to shut down.
I've run 6 marathons on this schedule each one faster than the last, and not had any issues with stomach or the "dreaded wall".
My theory is to take the supplements on board early, so that you top up the carbs as you go. That way, you start the hard part of the race (mile 18+) with well stocked tanks (compared to the people who take their 1st gel at mile 18) - too late, IMHO.
Bottom line - you have to experiment and I ALWAYS use gels over 13 -14 miles in training, not because I need them (in training) per se, but I have to train my digestive system on the move......you can't do it on your last long run....
Good luck on your journey. A big leap, but I improved my mara times by 22 mins in 2014 after two training blocks (with a coach), so you are in a great place.......
Sweet tooth? Maybe but as I don't seem to be able to chew it's one of the few options open for keeping the energy levels up.
I always by a box or two when they are reduced (SiS often have deals for those registered on their site) - best find the ones that work for you first though
Hi All
For mara races I've previously looked to take a gel every five miles. I've used a mixture of lucozade and Hi 5 gels. The Lucozade ones are abit sickly sweet and I can normally only manage 3 of these but they do seem to hit the spot energy wise. The Hi 5 ones are easier to digest but not as effective. I take the caffeine ones and since dramatically reducing my caffeine intake a year or so back (to 1 cup a day) I do get a real alertness hit from them late on in the race.
In training runs I might take one or two on long runs where I'm looking to do a segment at mara pace or faster but generally try to make do with just water and then chocolate milk when I finish.
I did Steve's suggested hill session today. I survived.
It's not so much dehydration Tom, it's more that after 2 hours of sipping orange flavoured Lucozade there is really nothing more revolting on this earth. I like to vary the flavours of my gels to avoid this!
Mike/Andy, thanks for the info. Will definitely be going for the caffeine gels - can't get enough of the stuff!
Today was a continuous hill session of 5.38 miles including a slow warm up:
I tried to maintain a consistent pace throughout, taking the descents a bit easier and pushing the inclines. Didn't feel great after the first incline but improved as I went on and finished strongly.
There were some long inclines with steep sections in there which was very different to the 10 rep hill session last week.
Not sure why the picture comes up so small? Sorry!
Looks like a good session but difficult to assess pace from the picture.
Much more interesting to do what you did than I did.
We had just under 20 in our group today - we did 4 warm up hills of 30 seconds then 10 longer hills of approx 85 seconds then about 1km away 2 much steeper hills (1 in 6) of about 1 minute.
Difficult to assess but think it was best session I've done since the equivalent session last year on New Year's Eve but unfortunately no short steep hills in marathon.
Obviously not a great benefit but had a SIS gel just as a test as not had one for a few months.
did 8 short less steeper hills this morning while timing someone else and that seemed to warm me up better for this evening.