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I'll do a 7 miler this wednesday and will run at 7:45 pace instead of 8:15. The route I do for 7 miles is quite tough so it will be a workout anyway!
Dave - Have you done many IM's??
Tell us a little about them! Intrigued!! Love the book Iron War with Dave Scott and Mark Allan the guys from the 89'. Will do one one day! baby steps!
Will fix my pedel on my bike! I have a turbo trainer in the garage all set up but nackered the pedal so will have to get some more or try n fix the broken one!
My most recent marathon was Lochness with sporadic training at best! My local club do track on a tuesday night. But I've had to stoop going as they're recoveries are far too long and the reps are too short! It's so annoying as I like the company but feel I'm not getting any benefit. Used thier training for Lochness and failed miserably. Died at 18 miles. Through half way in 1:40 and crawled home in 3:34 a broken man!
So it's Boston first, Half IM second and when I'm 40 IM
.....Easy????
TR- great advice- will train right up to April in the layers. Wifes gonna hate you guys!
Ha, I get told off for going near it! Apparently I don't do it right?
I managed before I got married! 
I do other things for brownie points, normally involves taking my 2 year old away for a few hours. 
Rich - 4 IMs, although I haven't done one since IM Wales in 2012. The races sound harder than they are - it's just a long swim, a long ride and a long run, but that's because there's no getting away without putting in long hours of training, which needs a very understanding family. You can just about get away with a half IM on marathon training, a trip to the pool once a week and a weekend ride*, but the full distance needs the hours, if only to get off the bike after 112 miles and be able to walk 26 miles.
They are special days though, even if you might not be thinking that at half a mile into the run, feeling like you're running through treacle and a long way still ahead. My avatar pic was taken by my wife on the Solarerberg at Roth, single file uphill with crowds like you're racing Tour de France up l'Alpe d'huez. One of my top 3 sporting memories, alongside the scream tunnel at Boston (you hear it as you're getting near, but when you get to the college the noise just slaps you in the face. Incredible) and finding myself running up an empty Mall at VLM one year (just got lucky, but great to have a glimpse of what it must be like for the proper quick guys).
*lots of caveats to that obviously - if you haven't ridden a bike for years, or are starting as a non-swimmer, half IM is going to take more than that!
Great Stuff CD! That is why we do sport and why we do all the training! I can't imagine trying to run a marathon on treacle legs! Must have been an absolute joy to cross the line!
I can swim and can bike so I'll be alright on the sprint, not really looking for anything fast as it's my first one. just wanna get the transitions right.
Went out for some hills tonight, I'm calling them death hills!! nearly lost my footing a few times but managed to stay aloft. I could almost see the roads icing in front of me! The Track at the bottom of the hill I do was frozen over so had to run almost into the brambles.
the reps themselves were hard and felt like I'd been out for a few days with some lurgy hanging around. But I'm sure that will clear in the next few days!
Going to do 7 miles tomorrow night at 7:45mm.
You gotta love marathon training! We are in it for the long haul!
Oh and wore loads of layers tonight(recognizable) to my friends! great stuff!
Here's my run from tonight
http://www.strava.com/activities/243740340
Quick question. How does the Boston qualifying work? If I get my time in April 2015 is that time good for two years or just one?
Also I'll be 38 and 3 months when I run in April.So will a sub 3:15 be good enough to qualify for 2017 as a V40? Oh me!
another one? Is doing hill reps on a treadmill as good as on an actual hill? Cause thinking if it's like it was tonight(icy) again i'd be tempted to do it on the dreader!
Nice reps there Rich. That's a decent hill, 2 minutes running up 8% is going to hurt whatever pace you're doing, ill or not. Consistent reps too, which is what it's all about.
I don't know about hill reps on a treadmill, but I wouldn't recommend falling on icy roads so the treadmill might be a sensible choice.
Boston: qualifying period is only 18 months or so, so to run in 2017 you'd need a qualifying time from after September 2015. It's age on race day that counts not age when you qualify. Not good news I'm afraid, on the plus side any time under 3:15 in April 2016 will be OK for Boston 2017 and London 2018. There's a plan...
Not too much ice down here
Nice one CD thanks for clearing that up for me
Feeling like I have a hangover today
looking forward to an ice free run later! Hope it stays away!
That's not good Rich. Get some rest. In the meantime, maybe some of the lurkers may have some questions for you - sub 3 to 3:15 is a popular range, with some obvious milestones and qualifying times to aim for. Here's one - you're obviously tinkering with the plan a bit, how are you managing to fit it in around a 2 year old? And do you have any other races planned to fit into the schedule?
Thanks guys. Yeah looks like I'm out for at least a few more days, nothing on the grand scheme of things.
TR- yeah, once it's gone I should get a great build up! If I rest now my body will be thankful for it!
CD- I have a half planned on March the 8th in Inverness. Plan to race it and give it my all. Also penned in is a mixed terrain 10k at the end of March. Few cross Country races too. One on Sunday.
My P.B is not very quick for the half so plan to get a better time at that. Maybe sub 91 or 90?? Will have to work really hard for that though.
It's tough working Full time standing all day in a physical job and coming home to a pregnant wife and demanding 2 year old right enough. At the moment I'm dropping my work bag and straight out the door. So throught the week we are not getting to spend quality time. But at the weekend I always do something with the little one normally try and take her swimming or to the local soft play.
The routes I'm running on are going to get hillier. my longer runs have been on the flat so far but I'm going (when well) to turn the screw slightly and up the Ascent and milage. Slowly and steadily. Pace will remain as it has.
Will look at running again on Friday. But will re-asses on Friday!
Tough fitting it in like that Rich. Sometimes your pace will suffer because you're out at a less than ideal time, but once you know that it's fine, training when you're tired is OK as long as you're not doing that all the time.
I like hillier runs because it's another reason not to worry about pace. If the effort is right then it's a good run, and if it's a bit slower than you'd be on the flat then it's because of the hills.
I know nothing about the Inverness half except what's on their website, and it looks a decent course. You'll know nearer the time if you're in shape for a fast time, 90 minutes would be a good benchmark but we'll see. Get better first.
You'll know this already, but when you do get back running, avoid the temptation to try & make up for the missed sessions and doing extra. A few short runs to start with, then back into the regular schedule. You won't have lost any fitness.
Hi Rich, good hill reps the other night and hope the flu departs soon. My week's training looks very similar to yours with a 14 miler planned on Saturday. I'm on a cut back week this week and did my first 20 miler last Saturday and was lucky to have the company of a sub 2.45 runner. I too have a young family (albeit slightly older 8 &10) and often find myself going out late after they've gone to bed. Monday night I didn't get out till 9.30pm.
Question for Cheerful Dave (hello, nice gag about get rich quick). What are your thoughts on negative splits and how to pace the first half. I was hoping to go for sub 3 and wondered what pace to do the first few miles? I'm also doing Manchester too. Thanks
Great to see you on here KR- 20 milers already! Thats great! What was it like out runnning with the faster guys? Do they still keep to your pace or are they itching to push on? I find when going out late at night I'm so wired when I get back and cannot get to sleep. Find myself tossing and turning till all hours
Are you on Strava KR? Some of the guys from the 3:15 thread are on there and their mileage is awsome!
Had 4 honey and lemon drinks today and a few max strength lemsips! It will go, It will go!
CD- This is exactly why I need a mentor, to put on my handbrake. TR said that a few weeks ago and that's exactly why I applied for this.
Yeah so when all is well get back nice and slowly. It's fine to do a few 6 milers at LR pace just to get back into it.
Another thing I was going to ask you( being a cyclist n all ) I'm away offshore end of next week and will really struggle to get in some good long runs. If I get onto a bike of sorts, will the time spent on a bike be as good as on a treadmill and what sort of pace HR would be good for me? I was thinking of taking my Garmin and cycling to 135-150 BPM. If I could do that and run for an hour I'm sure that would be adequate and similar to running at LR pace for 2 hours ??
Rich - sometimes you have to do what you can, and I've often mixed cycling in as part of marathon training. It's not as specific as running, but it's a good way of building endurance without the same risk of injury. If you're out on the roads then it's quite hard to get the same intensity that you do running, but if you're on a turbo trainer or a static bike in a gym offshore then you can get a good session in a shorter time. I don't measure HR much, but on the bike it's a bit lower than running. Aerobic threshold should be about right, that's the effort you can maintain for an hour. You could break it down a bit to make it a bit less boring, maybe 10 min warm up, then 3x10 minute hard efforts with 5 min easier between, 10 minute cooldown.
I don't know if you mean running straight after the bike, or later. Straight after will feel hard, but is good practice running on tired legs at the end of the marathon.
Anything you can fit in is OK though, you don't need to panic about not running for 2 hours just yet. A combined session at this stage is building endurance. Combine that with some speedwork on the treadmill and you've got the important sessions done.
KR - I'm a firm believer in that you'll get the best possible time with something close to even pacing, up to around a 2 or 3 minute +ve split. Basically, if you're not capable of running for 3 hours at a steady 6:52 per mile then running faster than that and hoping that you can somehow hang on isn't going to magically get a sub 3 finish.
I think a lot of people going for a big target don't have faith in their training (sometimes with justification!) and think they'll need 'time in the bank' or they'll fail. So they start with a 6:30 mile (which will feel easy for a 3 hour marathoner) and stick with that. Eventually the wheels fall off and by the end 8 minute miles are hard work, finish in 3:05.
If you're genuinely a marginal 3 hour runner, it's best to accept that you're not suddenly going to turn into a 2:50 runner overnight. You also have to accept that the absolute best you can do on the day is 3:01. If you pace it right and end up with that, it's still a good run, it just wasn't your day for sub 3. 3:01 after overdoing the early miles is a sub 3 missed.
I'd reckon on 1:28/1:30 for pacing, providing you're starting at 6:45 m/m and not 6:30! Aiming for a negative split takes big cojones, especially if it's targeting a significant milestone.
Alternatively, you could just run the first mile without worrying about your watch, at a pace that feels so easy you're fighting the urge to go faster. So easy that people are streaming past. Then, when you get to the first mile marker, that's your target pace. If you've done it right you'll get there in 6:50, even though it felt like 7:30.
That's really interesting regarding pacing, my MP runs at the moment are feeling okay. I know the longest one I've done is 6 but the pace feels Good. Last time out and training for the lochaber marathon the pace although slower felt harder early on.
If I want to get sub 90 I'm going to have to sustain 6:50 pace! Course depending I'm hoping to achieve that! I wish they had pace makers!
speaking of that Manchester has the pacers! I m in the sun 3:15 group but should really beat them by 5 minutes.
If they have 3:15 pacers at Manchester you could do worse than stick with them for the first couple of miles - they're bound to do them at 3:10 pace, and when they back off you just keep going.
Rich - like you experienced, the lower mileage and sub elite need to run too slow in the first 1/2 to bag a -ve split. I guessed I was 2:54 fit in 2013 and ran 1:27:04 and 1:27:02, but I should have run quicker in the first 1/2 in hindsight. This year I ws les fit due to a more compromised build up and was 9 sec slower.
CD, thanks for the reply. I think you have a good point about even pacing. Last year in manchester I think I went out too easy in the first few miles. Then was playing catch up. Got halfway in 1.30.14 & 20 miles in 2.18.32, but then from 22 miles I crashed & burned just getting under 3.15 in the end. It can be a fine line between a sh1t or bust moment. I like the idea of going easy for the first mile but be up to pace by the first mile marker. The first mile ALWAYS feels so easy with the tapering/carb loading and adrenaline you are all fired up!
Nice little 8 mile progressive run tonight. Splits looked like this 8.12, 7.53, 7.21, 6.58, 6.50, 6.52, 6.44, 6.26. Then a half mile warm down. Got my 410 set to average pace so was hard to tell what pace I was actually running at. So a good test too of running to feel.
It seems the faster you get the finer the line for disaster.
scary stuff.
TR- are you running London this year?
The only way the last few miles will feel comfortable is if you're underperforming, like TR says. The trick is (apart from doing the training!) to not get it into your head that there's still a long way to go, you're slowing down (and checking your watch every 100m to confirm it) and it's all going horribly wrong. There's a self-fulfilling prophecy right there. Truth is, if you've trained properly and run it sensibly, it'll feel hard but as long as you don't panic you'll be able to maintain pace or something close to it. That's something I learned from triathlon - in an Olympic tri you start your 10k run feeling like you're treading water, but then the markers come up and you find it's quicker than it feels.
You don't really need to look at your watch from 20 miles, at that point just forget about what's gone on before and just focus on getting from there to the finish as quickly as possible. Looking at your watch does you no good at all, unless it's close to the finish to find out whether you need to find a sprint finish from somewhere.
That's a decent run KR. A good test of what MP (and more importantly, faster than MP!) feels like.