RW article on "Minority" foot types

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  • Sorry Sean, but that is inherrantly wrong. Read 'Explosive Running' by Yessis, or go on a UK athletics course, or any other serious running book, and you'll realise that an anatomically correct foot strike for distance running is a forefoot to midfoot strike, promoted by the active footplant that elite distance runners ALL use (well, 99% of them anyway). The real reason that RW (internationally btw, not just RW UK) promotes a heel strike is because their sponsors, the shoe companies make millions by constructing highly complex shoes to force us to heel strike. There is less money in making supportive uppered plimsols, and we wouldnt want to upset the shoe manufacturers, would we? ;)

  • ChaosChaos ✭✭✭
    Triple Snap!
  • Hey, Chaos, like my anti-establishment skew on it?.. ;)
    KK
    BTW Sean, cheers for the forum, nowt wrong with that. And I still buy RW every month, just to keep up my gen...
  • It's a well-argued - and fascinating - discussion. But I can't help thinking these things aren't so black and white.

    Keep the thread bookmarked - I want to find out a bit more and come back.

    Meanwhile, though - runners who grow up without shoes - do they naturally run on their forefeet? (You may well say yes...)
  • ChaosChaos ✭✭✭
    Hmmm... MI5 - are you listening? We have a subversive element here attempting to bring down the evil Nike/Asics empire.
  • Yes, all research seems to point to forefoot running there too bud...
  • ChaosChaos ✭✭✭
    Sean - just regarding your last point, there are some pointers to research here - http://barefooters.org/medicine/

    rest of that site is for nutters but some of the linked research looks more scientific
  • Evil Mizuno/Adidas/Puma/Saucony empire actually. NB & Nike do make some shoes that suit forefoot runners...
    The NB RC150 & the Nike Air Zoom Vapour!
  • KK & Chaos - Great posts and spot on!
    I do have SOME sympathy though. Telling someone in the "running community" for decades that all they know re. shoes and impact is wrong is like telling someone that gravity is wrong - they just can't not believe something that has been so ingrained.

    Huw, your post was excellent until you said that it didn't work for longer distances. We'll see - I plan to do London to Brighton in my trusty NB150s this year...

    I should also add that I am not a model Pose or forefoot runner - my feet seem to land more flatfooted still (it's hard to undo 16years of heel striking). However, my body is somehow naturally adapting to the shoes I am wearing. I am now hitting 85mpw when until a few months back i could NEVER go over 40-45mpw without injury. SOMETHIMG is happening and it is good! :-D
  • KK - NO WAY!!!! If it has the word "Air" in the title then it has too much heel!

    And, if you're still around Minks, I ran in the aprk with the kids today in surf shoes. 1/3-1/2m there and back on tarmac with just socks and 2mm of neoprene between my foot and the ground.
    And I was thinking about what you said re. plimsolls. And I thought to myself, "Would I rather do a 5mile road run in these surf shoes or in Asics Kayanos or equiv.?"
    And the answer is, honestly, the surf shoes.
  • Really? You have seen these shoes bud? They are virtually flat. And its the ol' Zoom air pad. I'll find a link, but whilst I do, do you know any suppliers for the NB150, size 8.5? Well thats my normal NB size, are they tighter than normal? Do I need to size up?
  • I just bought 2 pairs of the NB150s from Fast Feet sports in bishops stortford. ph 01279 504 740

    You need to order at least half a size bigger than you would for other types of shoes (assuming you arent using NB's at the moment)
  • Mizuno= size 8,
    Asics= 8.5
    Nike=8.5
    Adidas=9
    NB 830= 8.5
    Any ideas?
  • Cant get the info up as a link, but goto NikeRunning.com, click footwear->mens->racing
    U cant miss em, 4mm heel air unit, which is more token than anything else. Thoughts?
  • NB150's should get size 9

    I wear a size 12.5 Asics Tiger Paws,
    I tried on 12.5 NB830's and they were fine,
    I bought size 12.5 NB150s and they didnt fit, so sent them back and changed them for size 13.


  • Wow, Nemo! Big feet too!
    I was 12 in Asics and 12.5 in NB.

    KK - seen them - stand by my original statement. But then Tiger Paws and Mayflys have too much heel/midsole for me...

    And ask for Paul at fast Feet and mention me (anthony) - he owes me a favour or two now as he's sold 20+ pairs via me (directly or indirectly)!
  • Oh, and he'll do you 1 pair for £25 and 5+ for £20 - BARGAIN!!! When you consider they retail for £60
  • Did ya get them yet?
  • Emailed them tonight & going to ring them tommorow. How much p&p do they charge btw?
  • Dunno, but at that price, do you care?!?!

    You have e-mail BTW
  • Pantman - keep up the good work!

    Anyway, since stumbling a couple of years back on the 'infamous' book by Gordon Pirie I've become very interested in running style and in particular, foot strike. I'm always watching how runners run and the main thing that has become apparent to me is that there are lots of forefoot strikers out there who don't even know it. Just last Sunday whe I was out with my clubmates I was at the back of the group watching everyone feet (weirdo alert!!!) and I spoke to one lad about it - telling him that he landed on his forefoot but he wouldn't have it. He swore he was landing on his heels but there is no way he was. And this evening when driving home from work I noticed a woman running alongside the traffic. She was wearing very heavily built-up shoes, but was clearly landing on the ball of her feet not her heels.
  • KK
    I bought 2 pairs and they charged £4 p&p but they slightly underpaid it (by 22p) so the 'dilligent' postal people in London, made me trek halfway across london, to pay them 22p and £1 'administration charge'.

  • This is really good. We're finally getting attention even from RW.

    Big round of congrats to all the Pose threaders who have been contributing over the last few months - especially Pantman, Nemo, Cartman, NRG-B - apologies to those not mentioned (hot on Pose, bad on memory)
  • ChaosChaos ✭✭✭
    Ditto Nemo! I'd phone up and complain but seeing as they were so cheap I haven't bothered.
  • There you see - I forgot Chaos
  • annajoannajo ✭✭✭
    even if the RW attention is from an article from 1999...
    given the amount that pose/forefoot striking has been talked about, do you know if RW have any plans to research and write an article about what you guys have been saying?
  • Annajo. The attention I was talking about was Sean coming on the forum to comment and actually admit that we might have something valid when the article was criticised.
  • He's gone off to try and get some research backing the shoe companies. Trouble is, I don't think there's any for him to find... :-D
  • Standard running shoes have a 12mm heel lift this permits more hip extension and therefore a longer stride. Longer stride = more downward acceleration = more force at impact.

    Therefore if the force at impact is higher but Robbins and Gouw found no difference between shod and unshod then this could indicate the shoes are doing their job, could it not?

    I would be extremely sceptical of any quoted study showing difference in injury rates between expensive and cheap shoes. With the possibility of so many other uncontrollable variables it would be hard to have a study design rigorous enough to give results that would stand up to scrutiny.

    Plus a study conducted in 1990 is 14 years old can we apply the results to modern shoes?

    BTW Pantman, I respect your perseverence and dont doubt that you are happier with your POSE approach.
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