Advice on Runner's Knee please

Looking for a bit of advice (and poss. sympathy as well!) re. long running knee problem. I've got an appointment with the Orthopedic dept. or something similar at my local hospital in a few weeks and I'm just wondering what to expect. My Doctor said they may want to do an athroscopy (sp?) so I was wondering how this works, will it hurt?!? Or will they do other investigations first?

Feeling a bit despondent now as I've got a place in FLM but I have a nasty feeling I'm not going to make it. Had been training 3 times a week but could already feel knee getting gradually worse. Went for a slightly faster run on Tuesday and now it's really bu88ered.

Well I suppose looking on the bright side at least when I get it finally sorted out I'll have a long time to train for FLM05! Does anyone know a good 30-week programme?!?
:-)

Comments

  • Arthroscopy involves inserting a small camera (1.6mm-3mm) diameter on a fibre-optic cable into a joint so that the doctor can see areas of wear/tear on cartilege or ligaments. It can be done under local or general anaesthetic. It can also allow the removal of bits of debris from the joint as well as cleaning up any tears.
    As for sympathy I am in a similar situation. Started hill training 3 weeks ago which has brought on a nasty case of patello-femoral syndrome and reduced my daily training from 12 miles to 2 miles (very slow jogging). Anyway I think there is still just enough time to pull things back.
  • Little Nemo - Johnny J has just had this op. You'll find him on the Mature Thread on General, or Over 60s training on Training. He is doing great and should be back running soon.
  • Thanks very much for the replies guys, I feel a bit better now!

    Piero I hope you get back on track soon. It must be really frustating to have built up so well and then get a set back. But I'm sure having a good base of training behind you will help. BTW you are the first reply to my first ever thread - have a gold star ;-)

    Johnny J hope your recovery goes well. It's good to know that I'll be able to walk if they do anything. I was worried about hobbling around on crutches which wouldn't be easy on public transport in London! My appt. is in just under 2 weeks so I'll post again and let you know what happens. I know it's not really urgent as I'm not in a lot of pain etc. but it will be great to get it sorted out as it's been funny since last July. Have to say though that I really hope they don't start lopping off bits of cartilege - makes me feel a bit queasy!

    Cheers everyone :-)
  • Euuwww - that's exactly what I was thinking about!
  • Good luck Little Nemo.

    By the way, are we related?

    I have a knee problem too, but dont think mine is as serious as yours.

  • Hello Nemo, nice to meet you! Don't think we're related but then I'm not really a ginger kitten, are you really a fish?

    Knee's not too bad, I'm hoping the Orthopedic people tell me I just need to do some exercises and stretches to fix it. And no messing about with gristle either!

    Good luck with your knee - do fish have knees?!?

    :-)
  • LizzyBLizzyB ✭✭✭
    Little Nemo - love the pic!

    I was quite a regular fixture at my local hospital for a couple of years becauuase of my knee problems.

    The important thing is, whatever course of action is recommended to you, it to ask WHY this treatment is being recommended, WHAT is the recovery period/prognosis is and WHAT the alternatives are. You also need to be clear about the diagnosis - make sure that you understand it.

    Remember, the people treating you may not be runners/sportspeople, so it is essential that they understand what you want to do with your knee (run!)! The NHS is great, but sometimes the treatment given is only enough to get you back towork/driving a car - fine for most people, but not satisfactory for a runner.

    Hope this helps - I ended up with two six month stretches of fairly intensive physio and gym exercises from my hospital. The team treating me (I ended up at the sports injury clinic at a large teaching hospital) decided tht hoovering my knee wouldn't really acheive anything. So although my recovery period was longer, the cause was treated not the symptom.

    Hope this helps
  • Thanks LizzyB, that's good advice. I'm happy to take my time over recovery if it's going to result in a better fix. I've reconciled myself to not running FLM this year so I've got loads of time for rehab etc. I'm actually quite interested in what the cause is going to be, my money is on inflexible hamstrings, over-pronation and/or crappy running action.

    Anyhow I'm off home now as it looks like a blizzard outside even in Central London!

    Cold paws :-)


  • LizzyBLizzyB ✭✭✭
    My cause was my hip joints being out of alignment. So nothing to do with my knees at all! As a result of my hip problems, I had tracking problems with my knees ... which really hurts!

    If you do end up being referred to a physio, be prepared to spend as much time doing the exercises as you would spend running... it is worth it, honest! Hope it all works out for you.

    That is such a cute cat!

  • Cheers LizzyB. He was extra cute this morning playing in the snow. He has a new game which involves running up and down the garden making crunchy noises in the snow with his paws.

    Awww, bless!
  • LizzyBLizzyB ✭✭✭
    Oooh, and when they come inside they always have bright pink pads cos of the cold.

    Our little Fat Cat used to walk through snow very slowly, shaking it off each paw as she went along. She was a bit of a sun worshipper and really didn't like the cold!

    We had to give her to friends when we moved abroad - I still really miss her!

    WQhat's you're little ginger one called?
  • He's Little Nemo which is where I got my forum name from. He's not really little now though, he's grown up to be quite chunky! My brother named him after a 20s cartoon strip called "Little Nemo in Slumberland".

    He's a funny little fellow, seems to love going out in the rain and snow and doesn't mind getting wet and/or cold. Totally different from my other cat, a black one called Spike. If he even gets one bit of water on him he's goes mad!

    Where did you move to? I'd hate to leave my cats, I'd really miss them, probably more than friends and family!
  • LizzyBLizzyB ✭✭✭
    We're in Iceland for a couple of years! WE could have brought Fat Cat with us, but she doesn't travel well, and the quarantine here is a bit harsh, so it was kinder to leave her behind. She's still fat and happy though, the big debate is whether we reclaim her when we move back to the UK or let her stay living where she is ... depends how attached our friends get to her I guess (there are three other cats in their house...).
  • Thought I'd pop in.

    I'm booked in for an arthroscopy in July because of runners knee. I've had physio but that didn't help. However I had my 1st session with a personal trainer who has worked out that I've got runners knee because of a mechanical imbalance. Weak quads tight hamstrings, tight adductors weak abductors, tight calves ect. Apparently I'm a textbook case. He's designing a programme for me to strengthen the weak areas and stretch the tight ones. It may be with some hard work that by July my mechanics are more balanced and I can manage my knee problem with excersise and (a big) maybe cancel the op. This would be fab as the consultant said they would cut my lateral ligament and that's about a 6 month recovery.

  • LizzyBLizzyB ✭✭✭
    Lista - nice puddycat! I think surgery is an absolute last resort, and I hope that your exercise programme works out for you. From my own experience, when I did exercise and physio, I didn't start to see a difference for about 4 months, but then progress was swift, and I was running two months later and did a mountain half marathon three months after that (where I damaged my ankle ligaments after falling down a ditch....! More time off!).
  • LizzyB - Iceland, wow! I bet you have far more snow there without everything grinding to a halt like it does here. That's bad luck to get another injury after fixing the first one, it must try your patience!

    Lista - another lovely cat! I hope the exercises work out for you. It sounds a really serious operation so I hope you don't need to have it. Just out of interest what sort of symptons do you get? My knee feels worse when I have it bent e.g. sitting at a desk, in the cinema etc. Ironically doesn't hurt much when I run and only starts to feel odd a few hours later or the next day after exercise.

    Good luck and let us know how you get on.

    :-)
  • Had my orthopaedic appointment yesterday and it was good news! The physio asked lots of questions and then moved my legs around to see what was happening. Have to say I was glad it was a woman, it would have felt a bit odd having a bloke bending my legs around when I was just in a pair of knickers :-)

    It turns out that my left knee is quite stiff and the kneecap is slightly out of alignment. No problems with my ligaments or cartilage though so no need for an arthroscopy – hooray!!! She thinks it will probably just need some physio work done on it so I’m waiting for another set of appointments. In the meantime I can carry on with some light jogging so long as it doesn’t make the knee much worse. Feel much happier now, really wish I had made this appointment ages ago…

    Thanks for all the support :-)
  • Lista - could you let us know the exercise program he gives you? or a few basics at least. I've got a wonky knee and I'm pretty sure it is due to the imbalances you mention. I've started stretching religiously and doing something called yogalates three times a week but I'd like to know something more precise and focussed I could be doing to help.

  • Resurrecting this old thread for some more advice!

    Had my physio. appointment this week and was sent away with some stretches and exercises to do. However my knee is hurting again now in much the same way as it did before. Is this a bad thing? Or is it the kind of thing that has to get worse before it can get better?

    Part of the problem might have been that my knee was a lot better when I went to see my physio. so I could do the stuff they suggested. Apparently my quads. are weak so I'm doing slide down the wall squats to strengthen them and my hip flexors are not flexible enough so I've got two stretches for these.

    I've got another appointment next week but I'm not sure if I should continue with the exercises in the meantime? Perhaps if I go and see them when my knee is at its worst it will help them work out what's wrong!

    Feeling-a-bit-feeble-and-despondent ginger kitten :-(
  • LizzyBLizzyB ✭✭✭
    Hi Little N!

    I have some friends who are physios (none of them live near me, worse luck!) and they do say that the patient usually gets worse for a week before they get better. Don´t know why though, perhaps breaking down scar tissue or something.

    So I´d persevere with the excercises, or at least the ones you can do without too much pain.

    or perhaps you could phone your physio and ask for a bit of advice?

    Anyway, good luck, and treat yourself to something nice this weekend!
  • Thanks LizzyB, just in time to cheer me up for the weekend!

    I feel a bit better now. Knee is not so sore as this morning plus I've had a bar of chocolate! If it's common for things to get worse first I think I'll continue with the exercises, but maybe just do them twice a day for now. I'm seeing my physio on Tuesday so I think I can hang on until then. I did think about ringing but I've put my appointment card somewhere safe so it's going to take me a while to track it down :-)

    I'm off to Ikea on Monday so I'll treat myself then - loads of lovely rugs, candles, duvet covers and lights etc!

    Have a nice weekend!
  • popsiderpopsider ✭✭✭
    I suppose if the patella is tracking wrongly that the exercises may aggravate it but by strengthening and stretching the right muscles it'll be brought into correct alignment.
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