Running a marathon by Heart Rate

2

Comments

  • I know. I know. I'll be doing them at 9:45-10:30 min miles roughly.

  • Thanks very much for your input (all of you). A lot of work to do still but I'm confident of making up those miles between now and September 27th. I'll keep you updated with my training.

  • If in doubt - err on the side of caution. You're better to go into it 10% undertrained than 1% overtrained.



    Don't get hung up on your goal time for the first marathon. Its a long way and it only really starts about mile 20. The first part is the warm up.



    You're guaranteed a PB anyway.
  • Fuel for my long slow run today is as follows (I'm 200lbs):-

    Deep Fill Ham & Cheese Sandwich

    Chicken, Bacon & Sweetcorn Pasta Salad

    Flapjack

    Anything else I should have? Is that enough?

  • Tim R2-T2Tim R2-T2 ✭✭✭
    The thread seemed to get a bit confusing.



    I'll echo what Vdot51 says. Look at the marco heart rate calculator website. He breaks the marathon into 3 distinct phases of heart rate allowing for drift and two miles of very slow warm up, low HR. I ran a PB using it and felt very comfortable in the last 6miles overtaking lots of runners who were walking by then.
  • It came out with a fair assessment for me. So that's what I'm working towards. 3hr50 - Will reassess soon.

  • I think you can overestimate the need for fuel.



    I run a marathon off a plain bagel for breakfast and about 5 or 6 gels.



    I run my 20 milers after work and take a bag of jelly babies with me.



    You do need to find out what works for you though.
  • Tim R2-T2Tim R2-T2 ✭✭✭
    The big problem for me in my last race was keeping it right down at the start. I was running at the pace I knew should have given me the heart rate but my heart rate was unusually high.



    I put that down to adrenaline and quite possibly overtraining. Unfortunately I carried on at the pace I thought should have been right and blew up at 17miles big time and from 3:50 projected managed a 4:42. It also may have been due to nutrition and heat. I'm not sure.
  • I'll actually have the monitor and staying at 155bpm for the opening miles should be relatively more easier. Hearing these experiences is good for me. So thank you.

  • Went for my very long // very slow run yesterday evening. Which was great.

    https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/848594438 - hopefully you can access that.

    Key facts:-

    18.27miles (19 actually but my watch paused for 3/4 of a mile(ish)

    Average Pace 10:12 min/mile

    Average Heart-Rate 142 bpm

     

    So any feedback anybody might have for me?

     

     

     

  • Sounds good to me. Did you get much drift?
  • Thanks for your response Tim.

    I did another 18.5 yesterday. Will take it easy until Wednesday and probably another long slow run next Sunday.

    Key facts:- 

    18.5miles 

    Average Pace 10:14 min/miles

    Average Heart-Rate 146 bpm

    Moving Time 3:08:40   Elapsed Time 3:15:34 (stopped for fuel and to take a few photos).

    I did get a drift (not much) - but I'd put that down to going extra-slow early on and opening up a little with 6/7 miles to go. First 9 miles in 1hr40, second 9 miles in 1hr25.

     

    Important thing is that I feel great today. Very little stiffness. No problems with stairs or getting into/out of the car. So feeling very pleased. 

    The 8min40 miles that I initially predicted are going to be very difficult, if not impossible to achieve. But something around 9min10 could be manageable. Will see how I'm feeling in a few weeks again and reassess. 

  • Blimey - so you ran long on the Wednesday and again on the Saturday ? Is that right ? I normally leave a week between my long runs.



    Good consistency on the pace too.
  • Ye. I've been getting weekly massages so I was confident I'd be OK.

    Did a very slow recovery run in between and knew that I felt good. I've got my next one penciled in for this Sunday. No problems to report. I'd generally leave a week as well but I wanted to get some miles in.

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭

    Have you done any "tempo" sessions at your predicted marathon pace. The effort and HR data from that should give you something to go off when compared to an "easy" run at 10 min miling.

  • Yes, I believe it' counts as a tempo run.

     

    A 10minute warm-up // followed by 20minute tempo run - Average pace 6:42 // and cool-down/rest for 10minutes.

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    We are probably getting our terminology mixed up a bit here but that sound more like a threshold session.
  • Yes. That would make more sense. Could you advise a tempo session? And I'll complete that soonish. 30 minutes at a pace where talking is inconvenient/moderately difficult would be my guess. With appropriate warmup/cooldown incorporated.

    So for me somewhere around 7min20 miles

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭

    Have you done any "tempo" sessions at your predicted marathon pace. The effort and HR data from that should give you something to go off when compared to an "easy" run at 10 min miling.

  • Not specifically. I usally go between long slow runs and quick speed stuff. An example of something I've done is 

    9 miles // 1hr14mins // 8.09 min/miles // 155 Average bpm

     

  • VDOT52VDOT52 ✭✭✭
    I consider tempo to be right about marathon pace (80-83% hrmax). Threshold is more like 10k-half marathon pace (86-88% hrmax) for me.



    Another way to look at it is tempo about about a minute to 75 second slower than 5k pace. Tempo falls between 5k and marathon pace.
  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    Ooh, a semantics debate.  image  Personally I use "tempo" to refer to any continuous run at a fast pace (faster than normal easy run pace), whilst "threshold" is short-hand for lactate threshold.  So a threshold run is a type of tempo run, at a specific pace.  (About the pace you could hold for an hour's racing, according to the textbooks.)  But then someone came up with "tempo intervals", which aren't continuous at all.  Bah!

    I think there's a place in marathon training for tempo runs anywhere between 10k and marathon pace. Practically speaking continuous runs shouldn't be any quicker than threshold because you won't be able to hold that pace for much volume of training for a decent session.

  • VDOT51 wrote (see)
    I consider tempo to be right about marathon pace (80-83% hrmax). Threshold is more like 10k-half marathon pace (86-88% hrmax) for me.

    Another way to look at it is tempo about about a minute to 75 second slower than 5k pace. Tempo falls between 5k and marathon pace.

    Well, my 5k pace is 6:45 min/miles and my 9 mile run was done at 8:09 - so that sounds OK to me. HR was good as well.

     

     

  • VDOT52VDOT52 ✭✭✭
    Phil, I think it is a case of some coaches using different terms for the same thing.



    Kenton, based on your 5k pace 8:09 pace looks like tempo to me. I'd guess your threshold pace ought to be about 7:15 based on my own myltiples. The 20 min tempo that you describe is faster than your 5k pace so it was actually More like a tough vo2 workout or a short race.
  • So how long should my tempo run at 7:15 be? 30 or 40 minutes?

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    For me, Tempo is marathon pace +/- 5 secs (or marathon pace effort) so depending on where I am in the plan it could be anywhere from 6 miles (41 mins) up to 14 miles (1hr 35)



    Threshold , according to my P+D bible is between 10 mile and half marathon pace.
  • If threshold is Lactate Threshold it's the pace you can run at for an hour before the heart rate starts to drift upwards. It's not what you can run all out at for an hour.



    To determine it you have to do some experimentation on the Treadmill.



    It's not going to be arbitrarily your 10k pace or somewhere between your 10mile or half marathon pace.



    Any of these training sessions should only really include around 30minutes running at the pace you are working on.
Sign In or Register to comment.