A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

I realised I was a fraud on the sub 3:30 thread as due to injury I've realised I'll never make the time. So in the hope that some may join me in the quest I've decided to start the sub 3:45 thread.

For what it's worth I've ran one previous marathon at Loch Ness 2003 in 3 Hours 49. Training for London had been going quite well except that I keep getting knee injuries in training runs much beyond two hours this led to me realising I'll never make my initial 3.30 target time.

So I hope some of the sub 4 runners will join me and post your training and thoughts on this thread.


  • Hello Ping Pong Boy

    I'm hoping for sub 3:45. This will be my first half marathon. I'm not a great fan of races, get a bit tense so I did my first race almost a year ago - Prague half in 1:43 and then this year I did Watford half in 1:44 (not sure what happened there, was hoping for better despite the hills).

    My 10k time is around 45 minutes. Train 6 days a week, longest run about 23/4 miles in around 3:30.

    Had a few minor injuries but nothing that has stopped me running for much more than a couple of days. Feeling completely shattered all the time though and my back and calves started hurting last week, and still do.
  • Hiya PPB,

    Can't remember if I mentioned to you before that I got 3:49 at Loch Ness in 2002.

    This will be my first FLM (club place). I got a pb of 3:39 in Amsterdam but I'm not quite sure what affect the huge field of runners at FLM will have on my time.

    Managed a fairly comfortable 18 mile training run 10 days ago but have been taking it easy since (too much too soon). Got 4 half marathons and a 20 miler to squeeze in between now and FLM. I hope to be able to get a couple of 21 mile training runs in as well.
  • I'm glad I'm not alone with my target time. I'm on a club place for FLM as well which is a bonus as I never really fancies the charity route to get in. I've got 2 Half Marathons and hopefully, injury permitting, two 20 Mile plus runs planned for the next 6 weeks.

    Donna W, Your times are almost identical to mine. My PB's are:
    10K - 43:59 (Aberdeen 2003)
    Half M - 1:43:50 (Inverness 2003)
    Marathon - 3:49:05 (Loch Ness 2003)

    I'm hoping for sub 1:43 at my next Half Marathon (either this weekend if I feel fit or more likely Inverness in a months time).
  • PPB & Scotty

    Are either of you planning to do the RW pacing runs? I've signed up for both Richmond and Sutton Park.

    I just started last week at adding a marathon pace session in (been Frank Horwill) did 11 miles at around 8:30 pace (just under - limitations of a treadmill).

    My 2 big worries not having done a marathon before are going the distance (okay about that now having done some very long runs, more than 5 at 22+ miles) and being able to keep up the pace for the time - hence introducing these pace sessions (tempo runs I suppose).

    I'm doing Reading half in March - that's my last race before the big day.
  • that should have said been reading Frank Horwill
  • HigsHigs ✭✭✭
    Oooh tempted.

    I'm aiming for sub4 but secretly hoping for 3:45.

    I'm in a bit of an odd position. My speedwork is looking good and suggests 3:45 is well within reach. My long runs are going fine in that I'm doing the distances but I do them slower than the long run pace I'd expect for sub4.

    I guess I'll have to decide nearer the time whether to go for a safe 3:59:59 or to risk a faster time.

  • PPB - Just having a quick lurk in your thread - seems to be going well!
  • Donna, I'm in Aberdeen so won't be joining any Runners World pace group runs. I actually find that 8.15-8.30 is about my pace for steady long runs as it is. I think my injury problems tend to come on when I try and push for sub-8 minute mile pace on anything much longer than 10 miles.

    Higs, in theory my speed work would see me at sub 3.30. My long runs say otherwise. I'll stick with a 3:45 target for the race.

    Has anyone tried Yasso 800's? I can do 10 sets of 800m at 3:35 or better.
  • Cheers 70 minutes. Thanks for encouraging me to start the thread.
  • Ooh, a thread for the likes of me! Can I hang out here if I'm not doing London?

    Bungay for me, two weeks earlier, going to challenge myself to get 3:40, not too bothered if it slips (as long as it starts with a 3). Confident, as long as I can get the long runs in to minimise the risk of blowing up. All going fine, a 19 and a 20 banked, four more long ones scheduled.

    Oh, and I'm a Loch Ness survivor too {{group hug}}.

    What happens now?
  • Welcome Swerve. I wish I had those Long Runs banked already. My planned 20 Miler blew up at 15ish last Friday. So I'm going back to basics and slowing down a little for them.

    What's everyones longest run target? I had hoped for one 24 mile run, but now I think I'll be happy with a couple of injury free 20 mile runs before race day.
  • LarsLars ✭✭✭
    3:45? Training is not going well, but after a 3:46 in Berlin I think this is what I should aim for. At the moment I can't even run that pace for a half marathon but there are still 10 weeks to go and before Berlin I was running badly as well.
    Good thing is that the XC season is over soon and the weekends are for running long again.

    My times as basis:
    5k in 21:32 last November
    10k in 46:06 last Dezember
    HM in 1:49:00 first half of Berlin marathon
    FM in 3:46:39 Berlin Marathon
    So, I just need 100 seconds. And if I would have run the last 6k in Berlin in 36 minutes ...

    DonnaW, "reading Frank Horwill", are you a Serpie?
  • Lars - no unaffiliated (haven't got my act together about a club). My boyfriend trains with his group at Battersea Park and I go along sometime and do the same sessions but not quite at the same pace!
    Are you a Serpie then?

    PPB - I tried Yasso 800s once (only did 8 as it was a lunchtime and had to get back to work). All were under 3:30 though.

    One session I did last week was 1600, 800, 1200, 600, 1000, 500, 800, 400.

    The last 800 was about 3:26 (which I suppose was effectively my 8th). So for me they don't seem a very accurate predictor. Nor McMillan really, but I do use speed training times for a 3:30 marathon and try to keep within those.

    When you do yassos how long is your reccovery? (all my recoveries lately seem to be 100m walk or slow jog because of the sessions I'm doing).

  • HigsHigs ✭✭✭

    I'm doing Yassos and am up to 10 reps at ave. 3:45.

    Last night was club night, just an unstructured 6miles round town. I did quite a lot of that at <8min.miles with ease. It's obviously easier to run fast with the pack than on your own.

    As for long runs I've got a couple of 18s and a 20 in the bank. I'm aiming for two more 20s and two 22s but to be honest I'd be happy (and better prepared than last year) with one of each.

  • PPB - how's the achilles, by the way? I remember we were both in the AT club pre-BLNM. Mine (cricket-induced) was finally cured by the mara, bizarrely, no worries since.

    My longest will probably be 24, definitely 22+. Of my four remaining opportunities, three are races - a 30K and two 20-milers. The blank, intended for the 24, is Sunday week. Someone posted a theory about a good target being 100 miles total from your five longest runs, and I kind-of like the idea.
  • I've already done 24 once (sort of accidentally) and 22+ about 3 times. Several more between 18 and 20ish. I don't really plan to run further than this. Concentrating on maintaining the endurance and increasing the speed now.

    Am getting pretty shattered though so need to make sure I consolidate and don't push myself over the edge!
  • Hello all,

    Hello folks,

    I would like to join this group-PPB, I think it's a good idea!
    Firstly, I ran my first ever marathon here in Valencia, Spain just over a week ago in 3hrs 49 Mins 21 Secs. I was aiming just to finish however was secretly hoping for sub-4! It was a flat course however temperatures towards the end of the race were hot(for me, anyhow!) - 26 degrees!!
    Unfortunately I then went on a weeks skiing, literally staright away, and as I am not the best (or slowest!) of skiers managed to get a few bruises:- ankle, knee & ribs!
    I am currently having a week off doing absolutely nothing, apart from enjoying myself!!! Before starting my running again next Monday with a sensible 5 miler to see how I bear up!
    Anyhow enough of the waffle, I hope that I can stay with this group! Having tried to stick with the 3.45 group in Valencia, I thought I would be clever and 'go for it'! I burned out at the end; I suppose you 'live & learn'!
    Regards to you all. I hope your training is all goin' well!

  • Gareth, doyou mean you stuck with the 3:45 group and then decided to pull away and then blew up?

    At what point did you pull away and when did you burn out?
  • Donna,

    As I was very lonely (this is because I cannot speak much Spanish!), I decided I would run at my own pace.
    This was after only 4 kms. I was averaging 1Km every 5 mins until I reckon 30Km's when I started slowing down. The 3.45 group then passed me at 39 Km's by which time I was running 1Km every 6 mins, so you can see how much I had slowed down!
    Hopefully I can speak the language in London, so won't have the same problem!!!

    I hope your injury problems go away soon- I know what they are like!!


  • God - I'm away doing some work and questions galore. I'm glad I started this now. Hi Gareth & Lars.

    Swerve, my achilles is okay now. I completely gave up training for 2 weeks before 7 weeks before Loch Ness due to Achilles problems. The break and a very slow return to training seemed to solve the problem. I now "only" have a knee injury to worry about instead.
  • Hi
    I think I'm trying for this as well
    I've done 3 halfs since september last year, the fastest being 1hr 45 mins. I'm currently doing 35-40 miles a week and am biulding up the long runs. Longest 19 miles last Saturday in 2hrs 49 mins. I'm planning to increase by a mile a week for the next few weeks hitting a max of 23 miles. The only race planned is a 20 miler on 14th March.
    If I can carry on increasing the mileage at the same pace 3.45 should be possible.
    Can't increase milage at that pace ( I've currently had it at the end of my long run and any more miles at any pace is unthinkable)
    It being hot on the day - this would probably slow me quite a lot
    The mass start and crowding in the race - could turn a fit to do 3.45 into an actual 4 - I'd welcome thoughts on this
  • Maybe tempted to go for 3:45, though in reality a sub 4hr time would be very good for me.

    Some way off the distances you all seem to have run in your training, up to 13 miles, but I am due to run the Stamford 30k on Sunday, so that will be a real test for me as I hear that the course is quite hilly.

    I'll see how it goes on Sunday before joining this group. I do plan to do the RW 20 mile run in Birmingham in March - and to run at 3:45 pace if all is well. Anyone else running in Birmingham (Sutton Park)?
  • HigsHigs ✭✭✭
    I'm doing the Sutton Park run but can't for the life of me remember whether I've registered with 3:45 or 4:00 group.
  • Higs

    me neither, do they have a print out of whose doing what are do you just join the group you fancy on the day?

    See you there

  • HigsHigs ✭✭✭
    What's more I can't decide which group I'm hoping I did join!
  • Higs - I think you need to be in the "sub-3:52:30" thread!

    YB - see you at Stamford.
  • I asked about changing groups on the day and apparently that's okay - they just need to get a rough idea of numbers.

    I am planning to do Suttton Park but plan to run 8:30 miles which puts me in the 3:30 group as they are all running 30 seconds slower than target pace.

    Need to see how it feels to run at that pace for that long and 20 miles should still make it a safe option.
  • Hi guys

    I am defecting here after a short stint in sub-4 land. Well done PPB for starting it up.

    This is my first marathon, and my PBs suggest I should be able to manage 3.45:

    5 miles 33.30
    10k 43.30
    1/2m 1.39.30

    However, the long runs are tough - up to 2.5hrs last weekend (ran up a mountain so I don't think distance is relevant there!). I have a 1/2m race and a 20m race planned, and then about another 4 long runs of 3hrs+.

    I am only running 3 times a week - about 30 miles max. I find if I follow the RW schedule and run 5-6 times a week I lose all my will to live. This way I manage to keep my motivation at least. Is everybody else doing more than me?
  • Unfortunately I'm not doing the Sutton park run as I'm doing the Ashby 20 on the same day...pity I would have liked to do both
  • I'm running more often than you Puggers though I don't go much over 30-35 miles normally in a week. Longest week so far this year has been just over 40 miles.

    With knee problems lately I'm planning on trying something in my next Long Run this coming weekend. A guy in my running club completed a marathon in just outside 3 Hours 30 following a run walk program from the start. He ran 10 minutes then walked for two right from the gun and repeated this for the first 3 hours. I think I'll give it a try for 18 miles to see how it feels and see what sort of speed I'll maintain following such a session.
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