A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)



  • Morning gang!

    Pete, I will probably also go to register on Saturday, although not sure exactly what time yet. I've not yet had my pack from the FLM - is anybody else still waiting?

    Put the trainers in the washing machine after my ultra-muddy race on Sunday. They came out dazzling white, but the outer lining of the insoles came off which means I will be running on slightly sticky rubber - I'm going to give it a go today to see if it makes any difference. If it's a problem I may have to get some more insoles. Do you reckon it would be possible to get replacements from Nike or will I need to buy some generic ones?

    Still feeling quite stiff today - didn't get a shower on Sunday until an hour after the race, and I was so cold that I couldn't face the cold shower on the legs routine. Think I'll do a steady 6 miles as a sort of combo recovery/tempo run. Got a 20 mile race on Saturday so I want to be quite fresh for that so my schedule hill reps for Thursday may have to be a bit slower than normal.
  • puggers - i read recently and was told when buying my latest shoes that putting them in the washing manchine completely wrecks the cushioning system, do you find there just as good afterwards ?
  • Morning everyone - It's blowing a gale in Aberdeen and looking like it's going to pour with rain. I had a day of yesterday after Sundays Half marathon effort. But I'll be back out tonight for about 9-10 miles with my running club. I'm not in the mood for running fast though so I think I'll just potter along at the back.

    I still haven't got my London race pack and details through yet though I understand (from another thread) that they're going out this week. I'll be going to the Expo fairly early on the Friday as I want to avoid the crowds on the Saturday.

    Puggers - I just bought generic cut to size insoles for one pair of trainers at one point when the insole fell apart. They worked fine. I wouldn't worry about trying to get special Nike ones.
    Pete - My race trainers will have about 100 miles in them by race day. This is an ideal amount of wear I reckon ahead of race day.

    I'm going to Birmingham this weekend so I'm going to do my last 20 mile plus run after work on Thursday or Friday this week. I can't wait until the following weekend as I'm racing a triathlon.

    Have a good day everyone

  • Good morning all.

    Hope you're feeling better Adam.

    I think I'm going to aim for aobut 100 miles in the shoes I wear on the day too. Sounds about right to me - worn it but nowhere near worn out.

    Still have this cold but aiming to go to the track and see how I get on. (Adam I had all the achey, tired, chesty stuff last week. This is just an irritating runny nose really, feel a bit foggy but otherwise okay which is why I'm choosing to push on through. Would think twice if I was having difficulty breathing though.)

    As I live in London will probably go the Expo on a week night and then be a couch potato on the Saturday.

    Frank (the coach at the track) is away this week but I think he's left the session details with someone. Wil lbe a surprise for me though.

    Happy running everyone - let's hope better weather is on the way.
  • hi puggers, it'll prob be in the morning that I'll register ( give me time to take missus shopping in aft, but not much walking !!) it is quite an impressive exhibition, very organised with loads of stalls etc. They also do leg massages which is quite handy for getting rid of last minute aches and pains.

    Must admit I don't wash trainers in machine as also been told the cushioning gets naffed, tend to rinse them after a muddy run and put them on a radiator to dry out. 100 miles for my new trainers gives me 4 weeks to wear them in, a couple of last long runs and some midweek sessions should sort it

    Woke up with a slight tickle in throat which has now gone completely, I think I must be getting paraniod about getting a last minute cold, at least you all seem to be getting yours over and done with before the day !! Adam let me know how the 20 miler goes when you're colds gone, the rest may do you good.

    Ah well off for my run ,will clock in this aft with results !

  • Hello one and all.

    My aim is to get round this one in under four hours. Training the past month has gone a lot better than planned and 3.30 is now a vagure possability. I know i can now achieve the first 20 miles at an 8 minute pace confortably but the last 6 could be another matter, especially bearing in mind that I will be stopping for a hug and bottle of champagne at mile 18 with the Forumite Supporters.

    Question is if any of you guys and girls see me on the course (maybe lying in the gutter) could you give me a shout of encouragement (or abuse) to gee me up and hopefully I will be able to drag myself around behind you all and get my sub 4.
  • Hi Ashley

    20 miles at 8 min miling makes it 2.40 leaving you 1.20 for the last 6.2 miles = 13 min miling even walking should be feasible. I should think if you tried 8.15 -8.30 miling you should breeze through the full 26, not too sure about the champagne stop at 18 mile though. Should certainly be different from water or an isotonic drink, didn't Brasher drink someones pint of beer during the first FLM due to lack of water stations ?? unless that's just an urban (FLM) myth.

    Did 5 miles easy round ilkley park in my new trainers, seemed to feel ok, no rubbing bits, and I managed to GO SLOW !! so hopefully will be ok for thursday speed session then saturdays 20+ effort. Lovely warm day, first outing for shorts this year, I think the legs were a bit dazzled by the glare but seemed to cope ok.

    sounds like the colds better now donna, what sort of a track session are you doing today ? I can run every lunch break but there's no tracks available nearby. The only track session I've ever done is when I went to the Algarve running camp last march and really enjoyed them. Running round ilkley lido is not exact, but is the nearest I can do to track work .

    good running

  • Hi Ashley

    I'm feeling somewhere near where you are too (although just a bit behind). My one pure goal is to beat 4 hours this time around. The next step after that is to beat 4 hours gun time. The next after that is real unknown stuff.

    My 22 mile training runs have gone really well - and for the Reading Half Marathon I managed to get down to 1:38 (which impressed me anyway) and felt OK at the end, completing the second half off 7:15 minutes per mile.

    So based on this, I reckon I could complete the 26.2 anywhere between 3:31 and 4:05. Suddenly, I find I'm not sure how to choose what pace to run on the day. I fancy trying to run negative splits but I'm not too confident what I can achieve over 26.2. How are you currently working out what to do?

    It's a nice problem to have!

  • Hello all

    Haven't posted since the weekend as I've felt a bit miserable after my 1.46 at Hastings, nothing a kick up the backside wouldn't have sorted out.

    To those of you who are feeling under the weather I hope you are all in top form again soon, it must be hard waiting for colds,etc to pass but I'm sure you will be fighting fit come the day with the rest of us

    Puggers and PPB, Well done on great times,

    Yasso's tonight for me.

    Have a good night everybody
  • Ashley - I'm in the similar position to you with regard to marathon tactics. I'm now certain I could hold on to 8 minute miles for at least 16-18 miles and possibly longer. I don't want to kid myself and run too conservatively.

    Ashley, I don't suppose you want company do you? As I'm planning on saying hello to URWFRC at 18 miles as well so we could just see how well we could pick up the pace after that. There's every chance I'll die a bit of a death at 21 or so but even then I should still be well on course for 3:45 if I hold 8 minute pace up to about 20 miles.
  • Hi Ashley - welcome to this jolly friendly forum! What's all this about the URWFRC at mile 18? I haven't looked at any other forums so don't know what you and PPB are on about! ;-)

    BNTM, I feel a bit like you about the choice of pace - I don't think I will do another marathon (at least not for a long time), so I don't want to under-achieve, but equally I don't want to have a shocker and end up going over 4 hours! Hmmm...

    And regarding my shoes, I'm nervous now about the washing machine - I've never done it before and had no idea it could wreck the cushioning. Wonder if just one wash would be enough. I ran in the shoes today and felt ok, although I was tired and stiff so difficult to judge. Perhaps I'll buy another pair of the same and break them in now - should get about 100 miles in between now and April 18th.

    Get well soon to all you guys recovering from illness. Don't overdo it - there's plenty of time to get your edge back if you need to take a week off now.

  • Ashley me old mucka, Good to c u on this thread. Am I to believe you've finally got yr head around what time yr gona do. I take it you've done another 20 since the Thanet. If you're comfy wid 20 at 8m/m sod killing yrself on the last 6. Drop to a Very comfy 8:20ish pace and go round with me, maybe we can do our sprint across d line, as I let the team down with my below par Thanet run.

    I say 8:20 bcoz dats probs wat d RW Pacers will be doin, I wana stay pretty close to them if I can. I reckon Sub 3:45 will be very Comfy 4 you from what I've seen bud, However don't you think d 8m/m on the day could spell DANGER.

    Hows the knee holding up? Pretty well I guess if you're thinking of an 8m/m pace.

    take it easy bud

  • question for you guys - this cold bath thing, should you then have a hot one afterwards or just stay cold ?
  • morning all, I'm a bit like puggers, whats all this about URWFRC at 18 miles ? thats normally around the place where my wife and kids stand to shout encouragement on the day, might join in with the group hug for a double boost .

    Have to say I'll probably try the Woony pace of 8.20-8.30 rather than 8.00, I've died a bit at the end for the last 3 times ( died a LOT on the first) so would like to finish this one on a bit of a sprint, we shall see.

    Made the mistake of running with friends every day last week who were better than me and I can't help but try and keep up. Paid for it on saturday when the long run was a disaster (16 miles and knackered) so will be trying my first session on a running machine for more than 5 years. The theory being I can regulate my speed exactly. I've heard that running machines do not simulate road running exactly, useing slightly different muscles or something. Could this cause a problem using one at this late stage ??, don't want to suddenly crock myself


  • adam I think the theory behind the cold bath is that it cuts down blood flow to the muscles thus preventing all the little muscle tears caused by the long run from being enlarged by the flow of blood . This in turn leads to alot fewer aches and pains. I'm not sure but I think a hot bath straight after may well increase the blood flow and cause all the tears to enlarge and bring on the aches and pains.

    I tend to have a very quick hot shower on upper body to get rid of sweat/mud etc and then put it on cold just on my legs and it seems to do the trick without drastically cooling the rest of my body.

    any thoughts anyone ?
  • Good morning

    Track last night was 32 200s with 45 sec recoveries. Mostly done in about 46 seconds (the 200s) so not great but felt shattered by the end.

    Puggers with your shoes I reckon it largely depends on what setting the washing machine was on (fast spinning or not) as that must be the part that would damage cushioning. I had to wash a pair once and still did a number of miles in them afterwards. Maybe use those for shorter runs and get some new ones for longer runs and the big day if you're at all concerned.

    I hope the RW pacers don't run at 8:20 pace! They're supposed to be running at 8:30.

    I might need to migrate down to sub 4 thread I think as you'e all getting a bit speedy for me. PPB I hear you're planning on using Nell McAndrew as a pacer!

    Do you realise we only really have 2 long runs left now?!
  • Adam - Have always had a warm shower after a cold bath/shower on legs. Convinced hypothermia would set in otherwise. Cold bath is like the ice part of RICE. If the hot shower part is quick can't see it could reverse all the good of the cold bath.

    Pete - I find treadmill harder on my calves. Lots of people say a small incline makes it more like road running - never bothered with this myself - hard enough just running on the spot in a humid environment I find! Can you do a short session on the treadmill initially and then schedule in a longer one another time if there are no ill effects?
  • last night i worked on the treadmill for 40 mins. I warmed up for half a mile then did 400mm,800mm,1600mm,800mm,400mm at 9mph then a couple of miles at 7.5mph (5 miles total) and it was a killer - I run 3 times a week on my treadmill at home and it is hard due to heat (as donna said) and the boredam factor. Time just seeems to last for ever on it. The upside is that you can exactly pace your speed sessions. Though in some way it's easier i know that i can run eg a 1.46 half on the road and i know i could not get near this on the treadmill
  • Adam, you're going to have to make those intervals longer than 1600 millimetres if they're to do any good!

    Donna, no, you're flying too - don't you dare think of the sub-4 thread! But yes, lots of scarily serious speed happening here. Keep it up, folks.

    Two more long ones for FLM-ers, none for me! But tapering hasn't really had any effect yet. I guess it will when I can stop at 15 miles this Sunday rather than do five more!
  • Cheers Donna - I was a bit tongue in cheek on the Nell comment. But I wouldn't mind seeing her on the roads in London. Judging her pace though it seems unlikely.

    I did about the steadiest run of my entire training last night. It was 9.5 Miles but talking all the way with someone so we didn't push too hard. By the end I worked out I had run dead on marathon pace (8:30 per mile) and it felt really comfortable.

    I don't like running on a treadmill as I get terribly bored after a short period of time. I also tend to wobble a little so I have to concentrate to keep running straight and let my foot slip off the side. I only ever really used the treadmill for speed work. As I ran in a near blizzard a few weeks back it would take a lot for me to not go out on the roads these days.

    Oh and no-one if allowed to migrate off this thread now - we've all come too far together through all kinds of injuries. It seems just about everyone has had some kind of injury or illness lately. Maybe our bodies are trying to give us a hint!

    What long runs does everyone have left? I'm planning on doing 22.5 miles tomorrow night.
  • Hiya, just lurking really, but a number of you have mentioned not knowing about mile 18...

    This is a good starting point

    Basically a group of forumites who aren't running it set up a pitch at mile 18.- Their job is to keep an eye out for other forumites, give them a cheer and hand out any special goodies requested beforehand.-
    I believe gin, tea, coffee and marzipan were among last year's list.
  • i'm on this tread due to the company - i feel that 1.45 is gonna be slightly out of my grasp as all your half times seem so much faster than my 1.46.

    nothing wrong with running 400mm - LOL
  • 3.45 i mean - dunno what's wrong with me today
  • Hello all

    Tomorrow being the 18th!! (becoming very real now) I'm planning to run into and back from work, about 12 miles each way, my way of thinking is that might add up to a long run, am I kidding myself ?

    Treadmill last night, 10 x 800mtrs, started at 13.7, stopped after 3 because of aching shins/calfs but after a rub down got back on and finished the remaining 7 at 14kmph, I think the aching limbs might be a leftover from Hastings

    On the cold bath topic, I always jump into the shower afterwards for a blast of hot water, I don't think it alters the treatment to the legs as they always feel chilled to touch still when I get out

    How many 20+ runs have you all done now, I want to get two more in after tomorrow myself making six total ?

    I have no idea if I belong on this thread or not really, first marathon and my 5 paced runs point to 8.30 miles but have clue how I will cope from 18/20 onwards

    Good running tonight

  • I fairly confident I'm on for a sub 3:45 but want to know how realistic people think this is...my longest run so far is 18 miles in 2h 26mins. I've no idea what to expect in the last 8 miles though (being my first marathon), so is sub 3:45 realistic or are the last miles REALLY slow?
  • Hi all

    Did 10 x 800m's last night at 3min pace with 2.5 min recoveries. With 2m warm up and warm down. Felt shattered afterwards but relieved that I managed it as I thought I might have lost some of my fitness over the last two weeks.

    Going for 12 mile over the hills tonight at a gentle pace. Much mor fun.

    I've now done 3 20+ runs with another two planned for this Sunday and next. After that a lot of speed session work and hill work. This Sunday will be 23 miles in hopefully 3hrs.

    URWFRC stands for Unofficial Runners World Forum Runners Club. You can go onto the website and register at www.urwfrc.org (sorry can't do links). You put in your estimated race time and race number, then you will have a bunch of supporters at 18 mile point who will cheer you on.

    Whats everyone got planned for tonight?
  • Welcome, new people!

    Freddo, sadly you are kidding yourself, according to the clever people who know about these things. Apparently you will be re-stocking your glycogen reserves during the day, thus eliminating one of the key elements of the long run - learning to burn fat rather than glycogen. Still, it's a very useful session.

    Neil, yes, you're in the 3:45 ballpark. The last miles depend on preparation, pacing and one or two other things, but are likely to involve pain and extreme willpower. If you've gone off too fast, or under-trained, or not fuelled/watered yourself adequately before and during the race, you will essentially grind to a horrible, painful walk. The good news is that it only lasts an hour or two (or three?)!
  • @.

    Wooney, Thanet 20 on the Sunday, Club 10k Handicap on Tuesday 44.56 new PB. 19.5 miles with rucksack on the Friday... met my match in terms of distance, lack of water, lack of energy bars etc.

    Going out for 10 miler tonight... lots of hills.

    I think you guys are probably all right start off at say 8.20... stop for champers and hug at Mile 18 (oh and your forumite will supply any special requests if possable - register on www.urwfrc.org - a forumite supporter will be allocated to you by Ultra Meerkat thier job to give you support, jelly babies or other special request and generally a very loud cheer!) then head off from there at whatever pace I can manage - hopefully continuing the 8.20- pace.

    So the list of people for this pace is

    Ping Pong Boy
  • Donna, dont be too put off by my 8:20 m/m suggestion. I dont kno anthing for FACT, all I know is they always used to like getting you UNDER THE CLOCK on time. Last year I stayed with the Sub 3:45 pacer upto 19 n 1/4 miles, this was at a pretty constant 3:39/3:40 pace. I died a slow death after that due to a previous foot injury + not being quite fit enough at the time. I dont kno wat dat work out per mile, I just guessed at 8:20ish, they may look at Chip time only these days(someone did say something about that) but even then expect something closer to 8:25ish maybe. Remember they wana get you SUB 3:45 and not dead on it. And back in 2002 when I did a 3;39:46 the Pacers went by me with about 1/2 mile to go so that would of been a similar pace then.

    Donna PLEASE dont get TOO concerned about it from what Ive read over the past few weeks you'll be fine. Im confident that I'll go Sub 3:45 maybe even get a PB, and you've been running harder than I have and got more miles in. You did a good 1/2 last week when you were under the weather that is still more than good enough.

    PETE, the TREADMILL in my closest running partner. He'll look after your joints beta that his Concrete cousin. Just set to a 1% inc. The whole thing about not equating to road running is all to do with foward motion. The inc gives you this.

    Got an email 2day from Swiss bobby, he wants all Forumites to update there finish times on the URWFRC site. So you can be spotted and cheered on.

    Take it easy people

  • Thanks Swerve, so that will be only 5 long 20+uns then, still going to do the double tomorrow as the car is in the garage !

    Fruit cake, your 3 min 800s make mine look pathetic, doesn't that equate to a potential 3 hr marathon, do you use a gradient on the treadmill ?

    Looks like I'm hanging on the tails of your all
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