A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)



  • It's quite interesting looking the PB times posted by the people in the sub-4 forum. There are heaps of non-virgins, but there is only one person (Wolfy the dogging...) who has already made a sub-4 time. Also if you look at the virgins, then their HM times are all about right (1:50 ish) to give them a shot at 3:59 on the day. So... I reckon the sub-4 goal holds true for all the sub-4 ers - I certainly think that all of us looked at 4 is THE challenge back in December.

    Meanwhile, personally I've surprised and impressed myself with my races this year - taking 15 minutes off my 1/2M PB - and my knee cartilage problem has (touch wood) kept quite quiet. So I'm now getting hopeful that I can even get up there in the x-30 category - but on April 18th I'll be smiling widely as long as I get sub-4 (and crying like a 2 year old if not) and hopefully I'll also not stuff up my knee again!
  • I'm definitely in the Sub-3:45 and I'll be happy camp. I had posted on 3:30 for a while but I realised I was kidding myself hence why I started this thread. I knew that aiming for just under 4 hours would have probably been too "easy" having run a hilly 3:49 last year, so I plumped for 3:45 as the target.

    I think most folk on this thread are in the "3:45 and I'll be happy camp."

  • That's a huge amount off your half time Hollywood. What's your secret? (Please don't say training, I'm fit to drop now and can't possibly imagine training any harder than I have!)

    I hope you get near the 3:30 mark. I will be crying too if I don't make sub 4.
  • My initial target was 3:35 to beat the PB of a friend but now he is running as well and I can't beat him head to head anyway and settle for sub 3:45. Did 3:46 before so not far of. Sub 3:40 would be nice as well.
  • 7 years between HMs (and Ms) helped!

    Bizarrely the thing that has really built my speed is my knee injury - last April the physio said I was only allowed to run for 10 minutes at a time. The result was that I ran as fast as I could for each slot of 12 minutes (I'm sure she factored the fact that I'd ignore her advice into her 10 minute time limit). While I was running I also tweaked the way I was running (especially the way I land) to try to stop my knee from hurting. Then in May I was allowed to do 15 minutes - so the same again happened - I ran as fast as I could for 20 minutes. Then in June... I guess you get the picture.

    Running real short distances improved my speed hugely - down from 25 minutes to just over 20 for my local 4.5 km loop. Then since last September when I last saw the physio it's then been a case of slowly extending the long slow runs to hopefully improve stamina.
  • That's interesting Hollywood, because Frank Horwill says that to improve your marathon time you need to improve your half time. To do which, you need to improve your 10k time. To do which you need to improve your 5k time, you get the idea.

    Norrie Williamson also says that people start running long distances too early in their running career and they should only run shorter distances for the first few years as that's the way to get faster. I'm sure I've read it other places too.

  • I heard that as well but I am not listening ;-(
  • Well, hmmm... Last marathon was pathetic 4.47 (yes FOUR FORTY SEVEN!!!).

    Will not only be very grumpy and anoyed if sub four is not made will also give up marathons completly (I said that vefore the last race but two weeks later found out my ballot at FLM was accepted!).

    Training over the past two months says an 8.20 pace is comfortable to 20 miles over undulating course in winds on my own on concrete surfaces crossing roads etc.etc.

    The truth will however come on 18th April and its only then that we will truly see. If the day is good, people move out of my way, and the diet of bagels and pasta has worked then who knows just maybe 3.30 may be closer than 3.45. If it doesn't all come together perfectly then 3.45 is great and certainl a lot better than I expected before I started training... If it all goes tits last six miles but I do at least keep the 8.2 going in the first 20 then I only have to worry about doing sub 12 minute miles to complete the course in sub 4.

  • I'm definately in the 'around 3.45 category' - but that could be heavily slowed by race conditions to nearer 4 (ie slow start and having to run around people in a mass event). I did a 20 mile race flat out for 2.45 2 weeks ago and was shattered.
    Based on this alone...
    I know I couldn't do a 45 min 10k on top of this to get to 3.30 (my best is 46 mins)
    I would be dissapointed if it took 1hr 15 to do the last 6 miles.
    As someone mentioned the difficultly is having a good feel for what pace to try to start to run at to hit your optimum time. Logically that should be around 8.30 ish based on my 8.15 average for 20 miles. But as a practical measure it isn't how I run ( ie 20 mile race was more 8.00 at the start and 8.30 at the end ) I ought to start at nearer 8.15
  • Hi guys - just saying hello as I've not been around for a few days. Everybody seems to be doing just great. PPB, try not to worry about your exhaustion - a we

    I was supposed to have done a 20 mile race on Saturday, but the prospect of driving 2 hours and then running in probable lashing rain and wind, AND missing the England v Wales rugby made me go to the gym instead, where I did a fairly comfortable 18.2 miles on the treadmill. I did this at an average of just under 9 minute mile pace, although the last half an hour was at under 8 minute mile pace. I'm not too bothered about the pace - I always find treadmill running more difficult than road running. The main thing is that I felt fairly strong, and if I hadn't run out of time (wife and baby were due to collect me) I would have continued for another 2 miles to get me over the 20 mark.

    I have 2 long runs left: 22 miles this weekend and then 18 miles the weekend after as the taper begins.

    I've been away from home for a couple of days so hope that my pack will be waiting for me when I get back.

    Still don't know if I will aim to be nearer 3.30 or 3.45. Speed-wise my training has gone great with new PBs at 10k and half-marathon. But distance-wise I could have done with a few more 20 milers. I think I'll follow the 3.45 pacing group (hopefully running with some of you guys) and then if I feel strong at the end I may push on. I think the most important thing is to enjoy as much of the race as possible, so I don't want to be in pain for the last 10 miles because I've gone too fast.

    Happy running everybody - just imagine the feeling of running through that finish line!
  • Its also interesting the comments about speed and distance. I started to use a coach last year who took me back to basics first month was just warm up exercises and silly walks... Then we progressed onto 10% gradient 100m sprints in reps. There was definatly an improvement and I got some good 10k times last summer. Since then I have done 2 marathons, niether however was particulary good (see above), and I just concentrated on 10 miles, together with shorter faster runs with the club. To start with I was always the last person at the club but fortunatly over the winter my times have improved and with the stamina already in the legs for the longer distances its jsut a case of putting it all together.

    I will give the Neolithic a go two weeks after London but simply for the experiance not the time. Then I will have to stop running for a few months (wife is having an operation). When I move back into training I will try out your tips of going for fast 5k's, gradually building up month by monthby say 5k increments over an eight month period and then maybe that sub 3.30 may come along... then its London to Brighton... my long term goal.
  • Twin Dad, one of the most surprising things I find is how different I feel on race days when I have rested a bit compared to my average training run.

    If you taper really well and really fuel up before the 18th I bet you'll find you can go much faster than you think. Remember you were in full training when you did your 20 mile race.
  • Puggers you are right. My final approach will be to run at a pace I feel comfortable with, eg. I will stick with the 3.45 pace group and see how I am at the end.

    Worth noting of course is that pace groups go by FLM clock and not your actual time. So even though we all finish in 3.45 and may all cross the line together holding hands someone in Pen 2 could do the marathon in 3.43 whilst someone in Pen 9 may have to do it in 3.30!

  • Ashley - pace groups are running to chip time this year so as long as you start near them you'll be getting in sub 3:45 (3:43 is their aim I think).

    I'll be seeing you and Puggers with the pacers then it seems!

    Something that's always puzzled me - why are bagels better than other bread? Or aren't they?

  • Good question, I will have to ask the BAGEL FACTORY (who will be giving away Bagels at the Pasta Party).

    They use the same bread but once the dough has risen they are shaped and then boiled for four minutes before being baked.

    Sugar is added to the mix, but then sugar is also added to some bread mixes.

    I also note Donna that you are not a million miles from me either. I am on the South Side of Tower Bridge near The Design Museum so maybe when this is all over you Woony and I can meet up for a post race training run!
  • Ashley that sounds like a great idea. Will have to wait a few weeks as I'm recuperating in California post marathon where I hope to run very slowly and appreciate the sun and scenery!

    Are you about next Wednesday about 7ish for a loop about the river (up to Blackfriars or Waterloo?) Too late? (That's if it's okay with you Woony?)
  • just did under 5 miles (4.8) round ilkley park in 39 mins at a fairly comfortable pace, 8.07 min miling then got some fartlek tomorrow. Feeling pretty ok at the moment, with a 20 miler booked for next monday that I will try and do at 8.30 pace and see how I feel.. Will meet up with the gang on the day with the 3.45 pacers (once I get my pack) and try and stay with you, will definately not be pushing on at the end, just trying to hang on I expect.

    Have found over the last 5-6 weeks, by having 2 speed sessions a week I feel faster. Think I'll try and keep them up after the FLM and have an overdue assault on my PB for half M (1.43) and 10K (46) which are both a bit pathetic as I've never managed to run fast just steady.

    Do feel better this year than previously, managed not to peak too soon and to stay uninjured, so raised hopes for 3.45.

    whatever time you get , you will enjoy the atmosphere, makes even the GNR feel tame.

    keep running


  • Donna W, I am afraid that if you are referring to Wednesday 31st I will be taking off from Atlanta and heading to Orlando for the start of my 2 weeks tapering in DisneySea WorldBusch Gardens!

    If you are refering to Wednesday 24th then you are on and I will incorporate the run into my last long run.
  • Too mannnnnny post to read, F'>k me you've all been busy 2day.

    PETER B, dont go too much on my 18miler, it was only that pacer bcoz it woz an 18 miler. No way I could keep that up for 26.2. I have every intention of sticking to the Pace group for at least the first 20/21 miles. Just wana get back to doing sub 3:45 this year after last years 3:56. 3:39:45 would be a PB and if Im OK at 20/21 then thats what I'll go for, but anything sub 3:45 will make me happy this year.

    DONNA, Don't worry about me being too fast for you. Letting the TM push me and actually running on the roads is quite different for me. I find the TM a great way to train but I can't always replicate those times on the road, due to conditions. Got a guy at work also looking for a Sub 3:45 this year who may join us on the 31st if that OK. He's a sub 3:30 boy in his younger days but hes a 41 year old who looks in his fiftys, and acts in his Sixtys so I'll think we'll be OK. Don't tell him I said that............ He a lovely Guy really.

    ASHLEY, I'll look foward to seeing you for a post MARA canter after my legs recover. Normally around 2 weeks, So maybe thats time for Donna to stop swanin around in the States and Join us. Theres a girl that works in Liverpool St on this site somewhere, we could make it a Forumie get together?

    Got my no Confirmed today. 52142 RED START.

    Getting Scary now init.

    Take it easy people

  • morning all, looks like another nice but windy day. Will be doing 8-10 laps of ilkley park on a fartlek basis as todays sped session, legs feel pretty ok despite weekends 22 miles from hell.

    Woony, thats a bit of a relief, I might have a chance of keeping up with you then. One thing I've noticed about recent threads is that how everyone seems to have speeded up by doing speed sessions. Doh !! that sound so stupid when I read it back, however I've never liked fast runs as I must be a bit lazy. This year however having joined the forum it's made me buckle down a bit a do more of them and I can feel the improvement alrady.

    After the FLM will be trying to improve on my other PB's, will any of the regulars be continuing/starting an ongoing thread for FLM survivors ??. This thread has really helped my committment and it would be nice to continue to chat with you lot and see how you're doing, plus get more tips etc.

    Still not got my pack yet, if not received by end of week I think I'll give them a ring to see whats up,anyone alse not got it yet ??

    good running

  • Pete - After FLM is over and depending on how my body feels I'll probably be moving over to the Edinburgh Marathon thread as this is my next major target. Other than that I tend to drift around the forums occasionally popping my head in and out of the friendly Scottish Runners thread.

    I'm cross training all week to rest my knee so today its swimming (morning before work), cycling at lunchtime and then a hard cardio gym workout tonight (using the stridey machine that I can never remember the proper name for).

    Have a good day everyone.
  • Looking forward to the post-marathon Thames forumite running group being formed!

    Ashley - I'll be running at lunchtime today (if my legs'll let me) my boyfriend goes to Lithunia tomorrow for a few days so want to get home to spend an hour or two with him. Forgot that you would be in with Mickey Mouse for your taper.

    Woony the more the merrier next Wednesday - we'll see what my legs will produce!

    Pete, I've really found this thread useful too so it would be good to keep a regular thread afterwards somewhere.

    Track session last night was relatively short but I was exhausted before and completely wasted afterwards. 6x800s (with 100 m walk recovery) but in lane 5 again. Times were atrocious - 3:27, 3:28, 3:30, 3:36, 3:40, 3:40. Bizarrely left quad is feeling a little better today though.

    I'm still exhausted though. Anyone else?
  • I've finally had my pack! I'm in Blue Start along with the other elite runners (ho ho!).

    Can we have a quick recap of who is in which start so we each know who to meet up with on the day?

  • Let's summarise numbers and start area on a mini-thread. Add yourself in and cut and paste.

    Blue Start
    25022 - Ping Pong Boy

    Red Start
    52142 - Woony
    Twin Dad
    Donna W

  • copy and paste, and complete...

    Puggers blue
    PPB blue
    Fruit Cake blue
    Donna red
    Woony red
    Twin Dad red
    Hollywood ?
    Ashley ?
    Adam ?
    Pete ?
    Higs ?
    Lars ?
  • similar idea ppb - but you got there first!
  • Donna - We must have been reading back the way and searching at the same time. Now go back and do some work girl!


    Copy and paste:

    Blue Start
    25022 - Ping Pong Boy
    Fruit Cake

    Red Start
    52142 - Woony
    Twin Dad
    Donna W

  • Work? Can't work - too tired to concentrate! Oh, is that the sun I see out again through the window? Has my late breakfast (10:30)digested sufficiently for a run yet?

    Blue Start
    25022 - Ping Pong Boy
    Fruit Cake
    12722 - Ashley
    9773 - Hollywood (aka BNTM)

    Red Start
    52142 - Woony
    Twin Dad
    35964 - Donna W
  • I'll assume the number is your running no. If so then revised list:

    Blue Start
    25022 - Ping Pong Boy
    01631 - Fruit Cake
    12722 - Ashley
    9773 - Hollywood (aka BNTM)

    Red Start
    52142 - Woony
    Twin Dad
    35964 - Donna W
  • Of course if you have all registered on www.urwfrc.org then Ultra Meerkat will have organised a Forumite supporter for you as well... I have a bottle of champers waiting for us to swig at mile 18 (beats the lucozade and gives far more incentive to reach that point !!!).

    Woony and I will be signing up on Friday night at the expo. I intend to have a £5 eat as much as I can Pasta at the expo if anyone is interested in joining me, for a 'pre FLM sub 3.45 group' meet up!

    I will be in a bright yellow URWFRC T-shirt with my name on the back (just in case you don't recognise me from my photo!

    Intend to arrive at the expo at around 6-6.30. Say meet up at RW stand at 7 (latecomers head straight into Pasta area.

    If this timedate is not suitable to every one then lests arrange another evening. I can't do the Saturday when most of the Forumites now look like they will be meeting up.
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