A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

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  • I've always found vaseline works better than micropore tape. Just have to make sure you use enough of it, unlike me yesterday.

    Puggers, have you tried any of the anti-blister socks like twin skin or 1000 mile? I switched to them when I got my new shoes earlier this year. I was getting some really juicy blisters. But once I switched I haven't had another. (Bet I will now I've said that). Not the cheapest socks in the world but well worth it.
  • Adam, the rough rule is: Take you're most recent 1/2, times it by 2 then add ten. So by my maths that gives you a 3:46 FLM. This is just a rough guide but as long as you get the miles in( at least 18 to 20 ) b4 hand it seems you'll have no probz bud.

    Keep up d good work everybody

    Woony
  • thanks Woony - that's cheered me right up that has
  • hi adam, 1.48 for your first 1/2m is pretty good, my best is 1.43 2 yrs ago, my last one in january for the york brass monkey was 1.49. If you're like me the reason why it was so much harder than a longer training run is that I can't seem to help running the first 2-3 miles too fast.In jan my first 3 miles were all between 7.30 and 7.45 and you pay the price later on. A good thing about the FLM is that you can't run too fast at the start as there are simply too many runners.

    As long as you get in at least 3-4 runs of 20+ miles you should be getting towards 3.45 let alone sub 4.

    good luck

    pete
  • Good morning and hello to all the newcomers

    It's a low mileage week for me this week (aiming for a bout 30 miles I think). Sunday managed to cover those 24 miles in about 3 hours 27 again so although no faster than the week before quite pleased as it was really windy.

    Fairly tough recovery run yesterday, 5 miles seemed like a long way. Off to the track this evening. Hopefully the low mileage will pay dividends with my speed work this week.

    Slightly concerned how I'm going to get to Richmond Park this Sunday for the RW pacing run by public transport for 7:30!

    What have you all got planned for today/this week?

  • Puggers - I do the same as Swerve, have a couple of shoes on the go at the same time so blisters are in different places and get time to heal. Otherwise it's cushioning with plasters and stuff.

    Big Bob - can you explain a bit more about what you were saying about time on your feet with Yasso 800s? Or is there somewhere on the web that explains the longer interval theory?
  • Hi Donna

    I'm new to the thread, from the sounds of it you'll find the 3.45 no problem. Doing a sprint sesh today, no track nearby so running laps round Ilkley Lido in the rain. It takes around 2 min a lap so I'm guessing 500/600 metres and I'll do 3 or 4 sets of 3 laps, 1 lap jog recovery. Not very good at speed, prefer the long slow runs, they seem to feel easier.

    If you're doing 24 miles in 3.27 you're already there in terms of training.I'm aiming for 20-22 miles this saturday. There's a nice flat reservior near where I live that's 1.4 miles round so I can always tailor the distance to how I'm feeling or if the weathers too bad.

    Is this your first FLM ?, if so put your name on the front of your T-shirt, they'll shout out your name all the way round, very handy for the last few miles

    cheers


    pete
  • I'm back! I had a weekend away with no running at all. I managed a quick 5 miles yesterday inside 38 minutes. I'll do a steady 10 miles tonight in 1 Hour 20.

    It's sort of difficult fitting in long runs at the moment as I have my first triathlon this weekend so I can't really go long this week. I'm aiming for about 30 miles in total this week (Monday - Friday) then after my triathlon fun this weekend I'll increase the distance for a big week next week.

    Donna, you can read about Yasso 800's at:
    Yasso’s

  • PPB - Thanks for the link. It still doesn;t really explain why they work or why you need to take such a long recovery. Anyone know the science behind it?

    Good luck with your triathlon this weekend. I do admire you taking on at traithlon and a marathon within a couple of months of each other!

    Pete - Do I understand you to mean that you will be running 20 -22 miles round the same 1.4 mile course?!
  • I read that same Yasso's link and while it does say the recoveries should last the same as the intervals it does not state this is the essential part of the session. I think it's okay to shorten the recovery of you can manage it. I cannot see the point of jogging extremely slow to make the recovery last longer.

    Donna - I'm actually tackling a second triathlon just 3 weeks before London. But I'll worry about that one after I get the first Triathlon out of the way. By the way, congratulations on last weeks long run. You're well on course to cruise 3:45. I'll be very much in the unknown as I doubt I'll do any long runs beyond 20 miles due to a lack of time as well as the dodgy knee.
  • 3 weeks before? Are you mad? 20 mile runs are supposed to be long enougth though aren't they, in preparation? I just panic and want to rehearse before the event!
  • PPB I like your style - good luck with the triathlons.

    Donna, I don't think you have any need to panic based on your training to date. You've still got another 8 weeks, so just think what you could achieve - Paula R watch out!

    While we're on the subject of madness, I think I forgot to tell you guys that I have a new baby (9 weeks old), so my training is interspersed with feeding/winding/changing nappies/not sleeping!!

  • Wow Puggers. And I thought I was permanently tired!

    Who's got a GB place, who's in from the ballot and who's got a club place?
  • hi donna

    you're right in that I do 20-22 miles round a 1.4 mile reservior. It may sound boring but it's not. The views out over the countryside are superb, on clear days you can see emsley moor transmitter over 20 miles away. Also there are loads of people walking their dogs, running, or just out for a stroll who chat asking how many laps today?, hows the training going? etc, they all know me pretty well as I've been using this route for 6-7 years.

    Another big plus is that it's pretty flat and you can really pace yourself well even over 20+ miles. I keep a record on my HRM of the time for each lap plus max and average heart rate which gives me a good picture of how I'm doing. 12 min laps equals a 3.45 marathon, 10.40 laps equals a 1/2 marathon in 1.40. dead handy for practicing your race pace.

    This is the first timne I've got in on the ballot, the last 3 years have all been GB places, I managed to raise just over £5,000 for epilepsy action (not in fancy dress though !!)



  • Wow PB, £5k that's some going. Any tips seeing as I'm strugling to raise a decent amount of money? I've got a ballot place but would still like to raise as much as possible.

    Donna, great going, 3.45 will be a breeze for you. I managed 22 miles on Sunday in 2hrs 58mins. Although the pace was alrignt I felt really drained at the end. The wind and the hills were a nightmare. Night off last night and speed work tonight. Looking out the window now it's chucking it down with rain. I can't wait. On the bright side though my MP3 player finally arrived today so I'm looking forward to trying it out tonight.

    A friend of mine has just given me an application form for Trimpell 20 on 21st May. Anyone else doing it? I was planning a 23 miler that day anyway so a race might be better!
  • is it really necessary to run these 20 mile plus distances if you seriously are looking at 3.45 ? - it's making me nervous as that's kind of my goal yet i've not yet exceeded 16 miles. Did the brighton half on sunday in 1.48 and that was a killer !!!
  • Yes.




    Well, maybe not - I suppose you could be one of those people who tolerates extreme pain very well!

    You'll get round OK, but to get under 3:45 you'll really have to be able to keep performing after 3 hours, and that means training past 3 hours.

    Long ones should be slow. Racing a half ought to kill you, as should racing any distance. If you had lots of miles left in you, you would have been slacking. To go long, you need to go slower, and there's really no advantage gained in getting quick times for the long run other than the confidence gained from having performed at somewhere near the level you'll need on marathon day.

    So take it nice and easy - 9:00 pace, 9:30, maybe even 9:45, and just keep going through the pain. The ticker will be fine, the joints will hurt. It'll make the next one much easier.

    Finally, a piece of advice that I think is extremely wise is not to get too hung up on a time for your first marathon. Play it conservatively and enjoy the day.
  • thanks swerve, problem is, if you're a competitive guy you start thinking about just enjoying the day then before you know it you've got specific goals - just in your blood i guess. I intend only doing this once as i'm not sure my body could go through it again so it's important for me to give it my best shot.
  • Yup, understand completely.

    In which case, it's extra-important to prepare right. Get those long runs in!
  • B*gger. Snow and "essential" table tennis coaching and training meant I couldn't get out for my planned run tonight. So I'll have to get out for 10 miles tomorrow regardless of the weather conditions. The cycle leg of the triathlon could be somewhat comical if the snow keeps up until the weekend.

    I agree about the 3 Hour training runs. These are essential as I nkow it was a lack of long runs that let me down a little toward the end of my first marathon.

    I was lucky enough to get a club place for FLM. I tried in the ballot the last two years but have been rejected both times.
  • Got in via the ballot - 2nd time of asking.

    I was in 2 minds today as to whether to run or not since my blister was quite bad. But I put on my other shoes, gritted my teeth and went for a relatively easy session of 200m intervals. Blister wasn't too bad which was a relief. And I ordered some decent socks (Thorlo) today so look forward to giving them a go.

    On the bright side, considering how utterly seized up my joints were after Sunday's 3hr run, I have made quite a quick recovery - legs felt quite strong surprisingly.
  • What races has everybody got left before the big one? I have:

    Terminator 10 in Wiltshire
    Rhyader "Round the lakes" 20
    Lydney 1/2m (target sub 1.38...hmmmmm!)
  • Hi Fruit Cake

    Have to admit I've got a bit of a cheat on the sponsership, I'm a financial adviser so I get a lot of the money from different lenders or life offices etc. However one event that always raises around £300 is I organise Row a Marathon in the middle of Ilkley with members of my gym. basically we take one of the rowing machines onto the high street and a team of us row 26.2 miles and walk up and down with bucketts collecting money. It's a good cross taining workout as well

    Adam, I have to agree with swerve, the 20+ mile runs are essential. In my first FLM the last 8 miles were v.v tough, i was still running but was overtaken by a walking Mr Man !!cos I had only done one 18 mile long run. next year I did 6 20+ mile runs and found I could walk after the FLM without limping and did under 4.00 my target without any problem. I ran it with the young (26) fit manager of my locaal gym who always beat me comfortably over 10K and the one 1/2 m we run. However he only did one 16 mile training run thinking his natural fitness would see him through . On the day I had to hold him back for the first 10 miles and then he blew up at 18 miles and ended up doing 4.18 in a very painfull jog, walk, stretch, jog, walk, stretch. So get some 20+ runs in, Donna should sail through on the day as long as she remembers to taper before hand.

    Puggers, only race i've got is the wakefild 10K on the 4th april, won't be expecting a fast one, I tend to be a plodder, not very fast but I keep going at the same pace for a long time. Best 1/2 is only 1.43 and best 10K is 46.53 so to get 3.45 FLM have got to do loads of 20+ runs so I can keep going on the day. Will be trting some more fast sessions though, hasve you got any good ones ?

  • thanks guys, all usefull tips. One other thing...if i'm not constantly topped up with water and an energy substance the wheels come off pretty quickly. Any thing over about 8 miles i need to take water with me. What's the best way to manage your fuel over 20 miles ?, do you take 2 bottles and disgard along with those gels or what?. I found during the brighton half that 2/3 water station over the distance is no good for me, i need to drink little and often
  • Many folk, myself included, don't like Lucozade. I run with a waist water bottle carrier containing Powerade or something similar that I find palatable for my Long Runs. If you train with the bottle then you get used to the weight and motion of running with it.

    If a race is giving out water in bottles then I'll normally take some on early and often. The just discard as I go along. Most smaller races have a dump point for the bottles so that you don't litter the countryside. I don't suppose this is such a problem in London.

    As for races, I have 2 sprint distance triathlons and one Half Marathon (Inverness) between now and London. I'm aiming to beat my PB of 1 Hour 44 in the Half Marathon. I'd be happy with 1:42.

    Well it's still snowing outside but I'm a man of my word so I'm set to venture out for 10 slippy miles this lunchtime.

  • Hello, losing track of who each person is here, when they train, how they've got a place, etc. Need a little profile of each person to keep up!

    I've only one reace planned Reading half a week on Sunday. I'm also do the RW pacing run in Richmond Park on Sunday and a fortnight after that in Sutton Park, Birmingham.

    I'm running for ChildLine with a GB place. Have raised just after £1000 but have a quiz night next THursday when I hope to raise around another £400 and I still have some promises of sponsorship not included.

    I'm considering running with my pint runaid on the day (will certainly use this on the pacing runs). Might see if I get allocated a URWFRC supporter whether they can keep hold of another full pint and exchange at 18 miles for my empty one.

    Session last night was a gruelling 3k, 1500 twice with 100 m jog recovery (can you recover in that time?!) and then a 1k on the end. Quite concerned that the running of that total 10k distance took me just over 45 mins despite the little rests. Where or where has my speed gone and will it ever return?

    Not running today in an effort to keep at around 30 miles this week.
  • To answer the various questions....

    How did I get into FLM? I didn't - rejected in the ballot (first ever entry) AND in my club draw. I'm doing Bungay two weeks earlier, but tagging along with you lot (if that's OK!).

    Races? One every weekend!
    Ostend to Bruges 10 mile (club trip, racing hard if hangover pemits)
    Wymondham 20 (hard-ish, probably marathon pace)
    Ashby 20 (dead slow)
    Broadland 15 (dead slow)
    Joe Cox 10, Stowmarket (not sure)
    Bungay Black Dog Marathon (er, marathon pace!)

    I like racing. :-)
  • I have my last XC on Saturday. North of the Thames champs. On Sunday I will run the Bramley 20, but just as a long run. I will also run the Milton Keynes half marathon (where I try to beat 1:45) end of March. And the last Friday 5k in March, this month I will probably help there. And there will be two club handicap races until the marathon as well.

    Donna, 45 isn't a bad time, I never went so fast for 10 k. I might do some Thursday sessions at Battersea with Serpentine soon, haven't decided so far. Last Saturday on our health weekend we had your coach giving a talk about real training and what to do to become faster. Seems to be hard work to do his sessions. Are you running while carrying your running buddy? Or jumping up a hill? Or hopping 25 metres each other day?
  • did 3 x 1500 with 500 recovery yesterday and just done a 5 mile recovery run round ilkley park. lovely weather ,cold but no wind and v sunny ,perfect for running. Going to do some more speed running tomorrow, no running track nearby so going to use the football pitches in the park, sprint the length, jog across width and try and do 10-15 laps, not very scientific but makes me sweat!

    For drink and gels in the flm i carry two bottles of isotonic drink, 1 in my hand and 1 in my water belt and half a dozen SIS energy gels which I have every 3-4 miles. I tend to find after 18-20 miles my stomach will only accept water so for the last 6-8 miles i simply use the water stations

    Donna i agree with Lars, 45 for a 10k is better than anything I have done and with your mileage you should have no probs. As a bit of a profile, I'm 47 2 days after the FLM, 5ft 6ins and a bit heavy at 12st 4lb but hope to lose a bit over the next 8 wks. I'm not very fast but tend tom plod at a constant speed for a long while. The last couple of years I've peaked too early around Jan so have never got to the 3.45 target. I definately feel motivated by this thread so keep it going , let me know what training you're doing and how it's going, it makes me want to do more. This will be the first week I've done 2 speed sessions thanks to this thread !!

  • my speed sessions tend to be on a treadmill that i've bought - this is partly due to family commitments (looking after sprogs), partly due to being able to get accurate time/distance training and partly to give me a legs some recovery as all i do is road/pavement running. Is the treadmill equally good for speed training purposes ? -As it's in doors i find it harder cos of heating, no wind etc.
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