A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

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  • Thank you for all your encouraging words. I assure that breeze and sail are not words I'd ever associate with running 26.2 miles!

    Lars - how did you get on in the Nationals? I heard Frank was talking somewhere. I think he started some race recently too as he appeared at the track last Tuesday with a very noisy horn instead of the usual whistle. Saying he's my coach woud be stretching things a bit though. He sets the session and then I get the odd, "Keep going comrade," or "Lower your arms a bit". Before my first 10k he told me to take it easy for the first 10 minutes and then start overtaking people. I'm not sure if that qualifies as coaching! His sessions are hard but I think he's referring to his infamous Saturday sessions. I've banned myself from going to them until post marathon. They're just too much the day before a long run. Never jumped up a hill that I can recall but yes piggy backs on the flat for an age and up hills and that hopping hurts!

    Adam, the speed work I've done on a treadmill has always been something like 4 or 5 minutes flat out with 1 minute recoveries in between. Anything shorter and I just seem to spend time waiting for the speed to increase or decrease.

    As far as I understand the speedwork sessions should be either for increasing your lactate tolerance or for VO2 Max. This is quite useful reading
    http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/news/article.asp?UAN=160

    How was your snowy run PPB?

  • I completed my 9.4 Miler today in 1 Hour 19 Minutes. This was 10 Minutes slower than last week for the same course but all will become clear as to why. To say the weather was variable would be a massive understatement. We've had about 4-6 inches of snow overnight in Aberdeen so the run was always going to be slippy.

    After a couple of miles I was on to fresh untrodden snow that I always find enjoyable to run on. The wind began to pick up and blow snow into my face for a mile then there is a steep hill for a bit that was just a slog today. Towards the top of the hill the snow started falling again, which combined with the wind in my face actually made it painful to run in. I pulled my wooly hat down over my eyes as it hurt that much. God knows what car drivers were thinking as I was running along with my wooly hat almost completely covering my face. Thankfully things eased up once I came down from the top of the hill and the last few miles are predominantly flat to downhill.

    But I'm glad I got in the miles today. I would think 10 miles on snow, slush and and ice is at least 11 miles on an even surface. My pace works out at 8:23 per mile which given the conditions isn't bad at all.

    Donna - 45 Minutes isn't bad at all for speed training 10K. My PB is 43:59 and I would think that such a time is plenty fast enough for our target marathon pace.

    One last thing. What speed is flat out for speed work on a treadmill. I don't run on them very often but I would think with recoveries of 1 Minute every 4 minutes (run 4 - jog 1) I could run between 9 and 10 mph and keep this up for half an hour or so.
  • Hello everyone from the midnight shift

    Having a good training week, did 18 miles on Sun (and felt shattered), 4mile recovery Monday, X 10 Yasso's at 3.30 Tues and some hill week tonight,was frozen stiff and then did the "cold bath treatment" I feel the goal is fast approaching which has given me extra focus so to speak

    I've gone race mad in March starting with Richmond training day with my charity (NSPCC) but after the RW Event. Then up for Reading and Hasting Halfs, the Richmond breakfast run and a local 10K at Hastingwood in Essex (rude not to), once that lots out of the way, before you know it will be the 18th April, hooray
  • Morning all. Another cold slog last night. Managed 11 miles in 89 mins, 6 minutes slower than last week. I put it all down to the weather. Easy night tonight (8 slow miles) then this weeks long run will be tomorrow afternoon 'cos I'm off skiing for a week after that. Will try and get 3-4 speed sessions in whilst away as I don't want to loose any of my fitness. it was -11 at the ski resort this morning (-19 with wind chill). It will make it seem tropical here!

    Doing Trimpell 20 on 21 March, thats the only race I've got planned.
  • Hi

    did a speedy 10k (for me) last night on the treadmill....broke my 10k best for the second time in 3 weeks...must be something OK since only do one fast run a week so I'm not exactly training for it.

    Aiming for 52 miles this week with a 23 miler on Saturday morning (longest so far - 2 weeks ago 21 miles)

    Had an easy week last week - only 36 with a 15 miler long run

    only doing one race before FLM - Ashby on the 14th March
  • Woony - You're famous! On the front page. Well done, I think races with 2 mile hills are more than I can manage.

    PPB - well done for sticking with it. Those runs were you can just feel your face freeze over are awful. Running in hail, sleet or really driving rain or snow is always painful.

    I've only done flat out on a treadmill in kph - usually go for 8 kph for slow jog recovery to around 14.8 kph for 5 minutes (but haven't done that for a while and doubt I could keep that pace at the moment).

    Freddo, did the cold bath things after my run on Sunday - thought I'd get hypothermia. Downed my cup of tea in about 60 seconds and sat there shivering violently until I could bear no more and made a very ungraceful exit from the bath as fast as I could manage with stiff frozen legs.
  • hi all

    managed to do my second fast session of the week. Fast down one length of the park, jog across the bottom , fast up the other side, then jog across the top. The fast bit takes as long as the jog around 3.30 per lap in total. Would estimte the distance at around 750-800 metres. did 6 laps with mate (aim for 8 then 10 etc) ground was just starting to defrost, bit slippy but a lovely sunny day.

    Going for a 20+ on saturday hope it's not snowing. Have been doing the cold water bit after my long runs for a while. Bit of a coward as I have a quick warm shower to get rid of mud and sweat then I put shower on legs and keep turning it down until just freezing cold and normally last a couple of minutes before I've had enough. Does work though, havn't had any aching legs since i started doing it.

    What sort of mileage are you all doing ? should break 40+ this week, aiming to peak at 50-60 in 2-3 weeks time.this time trying to do two speed/hill/fartlek sessions every week which has always been my weak spot, inherent laziness I'm afraid
  • afternoon all!

    Had a very quiet training week so far - I felt so tired after my long run last SUnday that I did only a fairly mild speed session on Tuesday - about 8 x 200m, 4-5miles in all. Nothing since then because I was in Glasgow yesterday with work, and am knackered today because my baby woke at a funny time last night and disrupted my beauty sleep.

    Tomorrow I'm off to the track for the 1st time in my life to do some Yassos - aiming for 10 x 3.30 with 200m recoveries - wonder how I'll do. Hope my blister doesn't recur - I'll be wearing my spanking new Thorlo socks which have loads of padding. so looking forward to that, provided it doesn't snow more overnight.

    Then on Sunday the Terminator 10 - apparently it's a bit of an all-terrain job with mud, water and killer hills. At one point runs past the white horses carved into the hillside which should be cool!

  • Okay this is now getting silly. I've persevered through the snow for the past 2 days. Now last night we've had about another 6 inches on top of the snow that was already there. My legs already ache in weird ways that I've never experienced since taking up running, probably due to running 15 miles in the snow, so I think last night "Bonus" snowfall will have to stop me. I hope the weather is better where you are.

    Snowy PPB.
  • ok guys - i'm not trying to get out of the long gruelling runs, but, as a rookie to this i'm reading some conflicting things. The book i'm reading talks constantly about peaking at the right time for the marathon and not too early. So, on one hand i'm hearing what your all saying about 20 mile runs every week until FLM, and the other hand I'm hearing 'don't over do it or you'll burn yourself out' - i'm confused !!
  • Well the theory is the 20 Mile+ long runs will help get you ready for running 26. Most people up the long runs using a 10% rule, namely don't increase your long run distance by more than 10 percent each week.

    The plan normally is to have your longest run about 3 weeks before te marathon then taper back the distances in the last two weeks. I know 20 miles seems a long way but if you can manage them then doing a few such runs in advance of the marathon will help greatly on the day.

    I only do the very long runs every two weeks as I'm having some injury problems. I'll have done less long runs than many by the big day but I'm still confident I'll make my target time.
  • ok thanks, this is all new territiry for me as i'm asking my body to do things it has never been asked to do before. I'm currently running 10k in just under 47 mins and half in just under 1.48 - my longest tun has been 16.5 miles though i'm hoping for 18 on sunday. Is 3.45 a realistic goal ?

    I know that it's first marathon, enjoy the day, dont worry about time and all that - but that's just not me - i've been running for a year for this so it's gonna get my all.
  • Adam - my advice would be try to do a paced run. You need to keep up 8:30 pace for 26.2 miles to go sub 3:45. See how this feels for say 10 miles and judge if you could keep that up relative to how you feel at that stage in other races (halfs and 10ks).

    PPB - Any chance you can run on a treadmill if outside just isn't an option? It snowed a bit as I left the house this morning but snow rarely settles in London. It is cold though.

    Last night's session at the track...
    800, 400 x 5 with 100m jog recoveries. Times a little less than I've done in the past I think but still coughed a lot afterwards so must have done some good!

    Worried I'm putting on weight. Doesn't seem to make sense. Anyone else had this or is it weight loss for you all?
  • morning all

    hi adam, I know how you feel about conflicting advice but PPB is spot on about getting the long runs in. As long as you taper for 2-3 weeks you'll be fine on the day but if you don't get at least a couple of 20+ miler's under your belt beforehand you definatly won't be all right.

    You're current times are very close to mine,my last 10k was a very hilly 49min and last 1/2 m 1.49 but set off much too fast with a friend who,s a lot better than me so struggled from halfway and I'm aiming for the 3.45 FLM. I'm just gonna concentrate on speedwork and my long saturday run. Should be 20-22miles depending on the snow tomorrow.

    cheers

    PB

  • that's encouraging - cheers peter
  • hi donna

    just saw you're comment, yep I'm putting on a few pounds. I think it's cos I keep stuffing my face on an evening, it's all this damm running that makes me hungry. Still at least it's fit fat and I'm gonna try and lose a bit over the next 7 weeks by not snacking in the evening (at least I'll try). I wonder how much 3-4 pounds or 1/2 a stone can make to your potential time ? any ideas ?
  • Donna, Didnt even kno of my FAME until I read Your post on here. I'll be available for book signings and the like on Apr 18. Its all thanks to a little group of forumites from KENT who got together a while ago, they go to lots of races together. There a good bunch and pretty well organised thanks to ASHLEY. I just happened to of Gate Crashed a few of there Runs. Lucky me.

    Anyhow, Ive been of line for a few days ( PC Probz) and am trying to catch up. Well done on the 24 miler Donna, you'll ave no probz on d day. I'm ALSO running for CHILDLINE, so maybe we should fly d flag 2gether on the day. I might just use u as a pacer the rate you're going.

    Woony
  • I will join in with you lot if you don't mind.

    First marathon for me, have sort of kept to my training schedule without over doing it. Did the Stamford 30k two weeks ago in 2hrs 28mins, and plan to run the 20m paced run in Birmingham mid March and one other 20m run before the big day - so should(?) be OK for around 3:45.

    Bit concerned that I haven't done any spped work - seem to run about the same pace whether I am running 7 or 18 miles - should I be putting in some speed sessions in?
  • ADAM, What PPB and PETER r telling you is TOP ADVICE. U really should be lookin at doin a few 18-20 miler at least 3 weeks prior to d BIG DAY. But the biggest TIP is as u ave read already: DONT BURN OUT. PPB has already mentioned not increasing yr milage by any more than 10% a week. Take good notice of that rule more than worrying about how far you get in b4 you TAPER. Its beta to have only run up to 17 miles and be in good shape on the DAY, than run 20 miles too soon and not be up for it on the 18. Also take on board that everybody is different, I have done 3 FLMs now: 2001=3:57, 2002=3:39, 2003=3:56(with injured foot), and I have never run more than 14 miles prior to the DAY. This isnt what Id recommend but I still did it. What Im saying is Stay Focused, and get what long runs u can in but don't knock yrslf out. If you can do the 20's Great, if you cant, do what you can.

    Woony
  • Donna, I've also put on a it of weight. I've been told that it's only to be expected cos your eating a lot more than you normally would and musscle weighs more than fat. So it shouldn't be anything to get worried about.

    I'm off for a 23 miler in 1 hr. It looks cold outside but sunny and I'm actually feeling quite good so looking forward to it. (I get madder by the day!)

    Hope you all have a good weeks traing and I'll see what you're all up to when I get back.
  • I'm hungry pretty much all the time and eating lots. Thankfully the sheer amount of exercise I'm doing (running, biking, swimming and table tennis!) is keeping my weight under control. As long as I'm around 11 stone 10 at the start line I'll be happy. I know lots of women on other threads have complained that they have gained weight or aren't losing any but this is just due to your body definition changing and carrying a lot more muscle.

    I'm really interested in what you said Woony about your training previously. How did you feel at the marathon when you were up to 3 hours as this would have been way further than any training run. Did you hit the wall or were you able to just slog on through it?

    I'd like to get out for a long run tomorrow but as things stand the traithlon I'm in on Sunday is still due to go ahead (despite 6 inches of snow on the ground). So I'm planning on just resting today and tomorrow and compete in the triathlon or get out for a long one on Sunday if the race is cancelled.
  • do you guys tend to run these longs on the roads ? - I know roads are supposed to be better for you than pavements but they all pretty much look like they're made of the same stuff to me - again, this book i'm reading calls roads "poison for the legs" - problem is it's not so easy to work out 20 miles off road - especially in East London
  • I do my long runs mostly on pavements. In some places there is a grass verge next to the pavement so I'll run on the grass wherever possible to help reduce the impact.
  • Tarmac pavements are fine by me. It's the paving stones and concrete you've got to look out for. Oh, and excessive cambers, especially if you always run with them sloping down on the same side (which you probably would).

    Mostly no-pavement country roads for my long ones, and I seem to survive OK. Best would probably be a firm, level dirt path, I suppose.
  • Peter, you're not alone on the snacking front- I think I'm using running as an excuse to eat chocolate and drink beer - I keep thinking that I must have burnt off loads of calories so it'll be ok! My weight is staying pretty static though.

    Donna, if you're putting on weight this could either be a temporary thing (fluid etc.) or could be because you're building muscle in your legs. If this is your first marathon you must be fitter now than ever - and I bet you don't look fat!!

    Swerve, did I understand you correctly when you said you didn't have a place for the FLM? If so, I have heard that the race officials look out for people without numbers on and pull them off the course after 26 miles - i.e. not letting you finish.

    Anyway guys, I am a bit p*ssed off with my stupid blister. I decided not to go to my virgin track session today - the winter wonderland outside was too tempting. So instead I did some Yassos around a rugby field (not sure of the exact distance so no point telling you my times). I had my new ultra-padded Thorlos on and my blister was aggravated again, even though it had nearly healed since Sunday. I don't want to stop running just for a stupid blister to heal, but if I press on will I make it worse until my whole foot explodes pm the 18th?!!
  • Puggers - don't worry - I'm not (quite) that daft! I'm running the Bungay marathon on the 4th April - just tagging along with this thread, not with the FLM itself!
  • Puggers - How frustrating that blister must be getting. My 2080s gave me a huge blister on the arch of my foot but it seemed to harden quite quickly. I stuffed the hard area of the shoe (the bit that was rubbing) with some tissue to cushion it and that seemed to help.

    I'm sure I've come across threads in the past talking about special sprays or plasters or things to help combat blister agony. Maybe start a separate thread about it? Did you try alternating shoes? (With another pair not the right for the left!)

    No I think I'm fatter than a lot of the female runners at the track but if I suggested I was fat at work I'd get shouted down pretty quickly (especially by the girls in the office - they've tried every diet going between them.) Allegedly extra weight does slow you down - read it on another thread here so not sure how true it is. Considered opinion is that you speed up between 1.5- 2 seconds per mile for each lb you lose in weight.

    My running is mostly on pavements (except when I'm on the track or treadmill). Adam, where in East London do you live? My long Sunday run takes me along the Regents canal, by the Thames, through Hyde Park, back on to the canal and a lap of Victoria Park. Are you near the canals? If you're finding the pavements tough on your body, they often have a strip of grass you can run on (if you don't mind it muddy!)
  • Woony - How's your fundraising going?

    Thought maybe fame had gone to your head and you'd decided not to associate with us non-celebs. Glad to hear it was just because you were offline.
  • Donna - i'm on the essex/east london borders - wanstesd/south woodford (E18)- there is Epping forest but unless you know it pretty well you need to take a sleeping bag !!
  • Adam - been fancying getting lost in Epping Forest myself. Can't you get maps? I did accompany two guys for a run there last year. And yes we did get lost but came out on a road eventually and got directions.

    There must be running clubs near you that do use it - have you tried contacting them?
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