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Rest intervals for 400 m reps
On the RW training page the example given of a good speed form workout is 8 x 400 metres at speed form pace with 3-4 minutes rest.
I've just tried this one out and I'm wondering why the recovery jog is so long. I felt good to go again after 2 minutes. 3-4 min rest is what I would expect as recovery for 800 m reps.
Am I missing something here? Does it make any difference if I cut the recovery to 90 seconds or 2 minutes or is there a specific reason for leaving it long as it is?
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Perhaps you're not doing them fast enough.
Is speedform the same as reps or strides etc? If so, it should be done at 800m to 1 mile pace. When I do them, based on Jack Daniels' book, I do same distance jog, or even walk back recovery, so probably about 3-4mins for 400m
Just had a look at the RW pace calculator:
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/general/rws-training-pace-calculator/1676.html
Speedform pace is about 1 mile pace, so I would say 3-4 mins is reasonable.
I used the training calculator and it said the same thing, 3-4 minutes recovery. I found this far too long and cut that down to 2 mins in between each 400m. I found this much better.
"Perhaps you're not doing them fast enough."
That's possibly the issue, if we substitute "fast" for "hard"
I wasn't going flat out but rather concentrating on decent form at pace. Not as young or flexible as I once was.
Based on what you guys are saying there are two ways I can develop this session: eyeballs out and keep the long recovery or a little short of that and with shorter recovery.
I might look in the Garmin manual to see if I can programme the session to have recovery until down to a certain heart rate.
Surely the idea is to run at the pace the calculator says too. And if I do that then the recovery time is too long. To need that long to recover would mean running much faster than the calculator suggested which kind of makes it pointless.
Depends which calculator ... if I put a recent HM time into the RW one I get a speed form pace of 6:50 m/m. And the advice to do the 400 metre reps as described above.
The same time in the McMillan calculator tells me I should be doing each rep in 1 min 42-48 secs, which is nearer the pace I actually did them at - a few seconds either side of 7:30 m/m.
I guess there's scope in today's session to up the pace a bit. I'll see how it goes.
For me I think it is about how long you can do the complete sets for at the highest intensity but in doing so keeping the sets at the same time as much as possible. This is where the 3-4 min comes into effect.
Maybe various pace calculators are available but I don't bother. I adopted the rowing pete plan to find my average. Whenever I do sprint for a pacific duration I always log the individual times to find the average and then try to stick to it. If you are trying a new distance for say 8 sets then run the first 7 at a relatively high constant that you know you can do then blast the last one to give you a new average to work with for the next time and repeat the process over 8 sets. Eventually it will balance itself out and believe me for 400 metres you will need the 3-4 mins for recovery.
I mix it with various distances to keep the interest going but remember to always note the times.
8 x 400 is generally a session to build speed and work on form. Those kind of sessions generally have longer recoveries because they aren't aerobic, so the length of recovery isn't as key to the session.
If this were a VO2 max session, eg at 5k pace, you'd want more intervals, maybe 15-20, and much shorter recoveries to get the most out of it.
That's my understanding anyway.
When we do 400s in a group the interval is 'until you all start chatting', which is apparently an indication that we have recovered and are ready to go again. But as Dachs says, it depends what they're for.
3-4mins recovery from a 400?! Maybe if you're doing it at obliteration pace!
Pace reps and strides.
Intensity: Reps are fast, but not necessarily "hard," because work bouts are relatively short and are followed by relatively long recovery bouts. Recoveries are to be long enough that each run feels no more difficult than the previous run, because the purpose of Reps is to improve speed and economy and you can not get faster (nor more economical) if you are not running relaxed. If it takes 3 minutes recovery between Rep 400s, then that is what is needed. Reducing rest time between individual work bouts does not make for a better workout, in fact it probably makes for a worse workout because the short rests could increase the stress and lead to poor economy. Think of Reps as similar to current 1500 or mile race pace.
Purpose: To improve your speed and economy.
Thank you all. I'm glad I asked because this has been really useful.
So now I know how speed form and Vo2max sessions differ and why.
Variety: VO2max Intervals (see below).
Intensity: Generally in the range of 95-100% of VO2max or 98-100% of HRmax. Intervals are "hard" but not all-out running by any means. Usually at a pace that you could maintain for about 10-15 minutes in a serious race. Intervals are best if they involve runs of 3 to 5 minutes each (800m and 1000m workbouts are typical), with jog recoveries of similar duration (not necessarily, equal distance); relative to the runs they follow. If a workout calls for "hard" runs, then go by feel and imagine 5k race pace, as he intensity of each run.
Purpose: Stress your aerobic power (VO2max). It takes about two minutes for you to gear up to functioning at VO2max so the ideal duration of an "Interval" is 3-5 minutes each. The reason not to go past 5-minutes is to prevent anaerobic involvement, which can result in blood-lactate build-up.
Just slow jog a 100m between each one. Good rule of thumb, and do them 75% max, not eyeballs out.